Huawei Honor 8

[lopri]

Has anyone gotten one yet? I have been using mine for almost a week and I am very pleased with it. The design and build quality is top notch, performance is awesome, battery lasts like a tank. I have tried to drain the battery every charge and so far I have not managed to get less than 5 hours of SoT per charge. (Wow!) Its dual camera is somewhat of a letdown but there my expectation may well have been excessive. This seems to be where experience (and budget, I guess) comes in where the iPhones and Galaxys are still a cut above the rest. Not a bad camera by any stretch and the results are comparable with those taken from the Nexus 5X.

Speaking of the Nexus, it is heartening to see Nexus manufacturers learn from the cooperation with Google and use the knowledge to deliver excellent products. This has been a trend with Samsung, ASUS, and LG, and I hope HTC will follow suit next year.

Most surprising to myself is that I have grown to like the EMUI (Emotion UI, Huawei's version of TouchWiz). A snappy and smooth performance helps (and a built-in firewall, yes, a firewall), and for that the Kirin 950 SOC takes the bulk of the credit no doubt. It is hard to believe that this SOC also sports an integrated LTE modem. I thought it is something only Qualcomm could do it, barely at that as of late. And from the looks of it the Kirin 950's modem is not a junk - the phone would not have this good a battery performance otherwise.

If you, like me, thought Chinese OEM's phones are a messy combination of gimped hardware and incoherent software in 2016, you could not be more wrong. I will have more to say about this exciting discovery.

 

[lopri]

(I reserve one spot for further rambling.)

 

[core2slow]

Haven't you heard? People here tend to have some stigma when it comes to Chinese phones (though they're fine using a nexus 6p made by the same global company) and would rather pay an exorbitant amount for a similar phone from an exploding manufacturer.

I have the mate 8, and recently got the gf a p9, and we're both loving the phone. Notice any lag with your emui? I haven't...even on the old mate 7. Truly a fantastic amalgamation of hardware and software optimization and perform even better than an s7edge in real world performance. Build quality, performance, and battery life are the themes for their phones and they have not disappoint.

 

[lopri]

Haven't you heard? People here tend to have some stigma when it comes to Chinese phones (though they're fine using a nexus 6p made by the same global company) and would rather pay an exorbitant amount for a similar phone from an exploding manufacturer.

I do not think that is a fair statement. In the past their phones were lacking in many regards and the negative perception was for the most part warranted. I had one myself and remember swearing "never again." It takes time to build a reputation.

Also of note is the fact that majority of consumers do not buy their smartphones outright and instead use careers' payment plans. The phones you and your gf have, for example, have $500 and $600 price tags, respectively. Those are a hefty sums for unknown brand's devices when there are known quality (explosion notwithstanding) devices sold with payment plans and supported by a reasonable customer support. For me that Amazon carries the Honor 8 was definitely a factor in my purchase decision.

 

[Crono]

I'm tempted to get the 8. On my radar since they announced it, especially because of that gorgeous blue version.

The aversion to Chinese phones is still mostly justified for Chinese phones intended for the Chinese market. But the recent approach for Huawei, ZTE, and others is making phones intended for the U.S. market - which they've had strong opposition to in the past because of (stated) governmental spying concerns - which is a better approach as the average consumer doesn't have to know or worry about band support or the lack of the Play store.

Warranty and updates are being addressed now, too, which still may be a concern if you are buying from the 10th largest Chinese phone manufacturer than the 1st.

 

[lopri]

Yes, and the legal departments of both Apple and Samsung will have something to say about them if and when they catch on. Heh.

Back on the Honor 8, the design theme of this phone is an "understated beauty." It is a clean slab with no clutters or unnecessary bling. Camera lenses are flush with the backside of the phone, which gives a very clean look to itself. There is hardly any wasted space and the size of the bezels are comparable to Galaxy S6. The Honor 8's in-hand feel is kind of similar to that of holding the S6, which is to say that glass is predominant.

Build quality-wise, I will say that I have not seen any other smartphone with this level of machinery other than Samsung and Apple's flagship devices. There is no loose ends, ill-fitting edges, uneven seams, etc. The fit and finish is remarkable and so is the attention paid to the visual symmetry. It even one up's Samsung's flagships by lining up all the holes and slots' weights. There is nothing out of the line that gives you an impression that something was not planned but band-aided.

Huawei apparently shoot for a perfection in the Honor 8's design and build, and they have gotten about 95% right. It is not perfect, though, and one glaring issue is that there is a slight rattle when the phone is "knocked." It mostly comes from the back of the phone, but you hear it when you knock the phone with, for instance, your knuckle. This is an unfortunate oversight because the Emotion UI has a feature that takes advantage of knocking on the screen. (more on this later) The power and volume buttons could have fit tighter, but they are still above average. Their tactile feedback is satisfactory.

All in all, the design and the build quality of this phone is top notch. The design represents soft-spoken minimalism that can be somewhat boring, but Huawei's near-obsessive-attention-to-details kind of makes up for the lack of bling from my point of view. Oh and did I say that the dual camera setup is flush with the back of the phone, without bumps?

 

[lopri]

Honor 8's display is not going to win an accuracy award. It has a wide-gamut LCD with cool white temperature out of the box and saturated primary colors, especially green. Fortunately EMUI provides correction mechanism for white point, so it is not hard to tinker with it until you settle on white that pleases you most. This of course does not fix (over)saturation but a bigger problem is loss of brightness in the course of white point correction. Any ad-hoc calibration by software necessarily cuts into the display's native brightness, and the Honor 8's screen is not a particularly bright one. I guesstimate it somewhere between 400 nits and 500 nits, and calibrating it for the white to my taste seem to limit the max brightness closer to 400 nits. Screen visibility under direct sunlight is thus poor. Screen visibility also suffer under sunlight if there is a gap between the panel and the glass. I cannot tell it for certain but the screen does look ever so slightly farther/deeper from the surface than the Galaxy 6 Edge+'s.

On the other hand the screen uniformity is among the best I have seen on LCDs along with its black level. There is little, if any, hint of backlight bleed or strange blots that makes a part of screen looks different from the rest. Black is as black as it gets on LCD, which contributes to what must be a very high contrast number for an LCD screen. All in all it makes a very convincing display that is pleasing to look at. Color purists are forewarned, however.

 

[o306]

I read a user review that say the Honor 8's fingerprint sensor doesn't work with apps like mobile banking, Microsoft One Note, etc.

Is that true from your experience?

I am particularly interested in if it works with Lastpass. Given that it is based on Android 6.0 it should work, but that review has me concerned.

 

[dawheat]

If you're in the market for a mid-range phone the OP3 seems a bit better and has a more standard software approach. Any reason you preferred this over the OP3?

 

[lopri]

@o306: Finger print scanner works well but I have not tried for anything else than unlocking the phone. I will report back later after trying it with LastPass.

@dawheat: I was not looking for a particular new phone. I wanted to see how the Kirin 950 performs and it turns out the whole package exceeds my expectation. (Edit: oh and I have a soft spot for glass phones)

That said, I am still evaluating it.

 

[lopri]

I can confirm that fingerprint authentication works flawlessly with Lasspass.

 

[o306]

I can confirm that fingerprint authentication works flawlessly with Lasspass.

Thanks for testing!

And this is why I hate reading most user reviews on store websites for products...user error can have you worried about a problem that might not exist.

Only one person mentioned it, but if it was real, it would be a big problem for some of us.

Seems like a good phone with the weaknesses being software (allegedly they are working on this) and low-light camera performance.

 

[elitejp]

For me the camera is one of the biggest selling factors when I look at buying a phone. Phones are already at a point where most everything runs pretty smoothly

 

[Phynaz]

Ars doesn't like it;

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...ecent-hardware-but-you-can-do-better-for-400/

 

[Kazukian]

I think the OnePlus 3 is the phone to beat at that price point.

 

[lopri]

@Phynaz: That is an unbalanced and even unreasonable review. (which, frankly, is not surprising) You can make any device look good or bad by stressing on its strengths or weakness, and I hope people can make their own judgment from hard data.

For example, the author says glass construction is a "Bad" because metal construction is more "premium." I do not know how he came to that conclusion, or whether he will stick to that notion in the future (say, when Apple moves back to glass phones in the near future), but I certainly disagree. Then he goes onto criticize the GPU like this:

While the CPU power is decent, Huawei skimped on the GPU. The Honor 8 packs an ARM Mali-T880, the same GPU as you'll find in an Exynos variant of a 2016 Samsung flagship. But where the Galaxy S7 has a Mali-T880 MP12—that's 12 GPU cores—the Honor 8 has a Mali-T880 MP4—only 4 GPU cores. So while it'll win in CPU benchmarks, the Honor 8 gets crushed in GPU benchmarks. The storage performance is not spectacular, either.

I do not know how Huawei can "skimp" on the GPU when the GPU is part of the SOC and there is no other SOC that runs higher spec GPU that also runs A72 CPUs manufactured on 16nm. (?) Exynos runs M1, Snapdragon is Snapdragon. Unless Huawei decide to create a brand new SOC with a beefier GPU or to buy Exynos and Snapdragon, there is no other choice available to it. Using a different SOC might have been necessary, had Huawei decided to equip the Honor 8 with an 1440p screen. But as it is it wisely stuck to 1080p. The Mali-880MP4 in Honor 8 runs at 900 MHz v. 650 MHz of 880MP12 in S7. A simple math tells us (12x650 / 4x900) the difference is 2.16, so Honor 8's on-screen performance is somewhere between that of S6's and S7's, both of which drive twice as many pixels. Its sustained performance is also very good from what I can see, but the review does not say anything about it which I think is a mistake. After all it is something Ars brought to attention not too long ago.

OnePlus 3 runs also 1080p, but seeing its battery life is not nearly as good as Honor 8's, there is a clear give-and-take a user can consider and decide. Remember that users get the whole package, not a GPU that can be popped in and out at will. The author apparently cannot put together all these facts and explain it in a dispassionate manner.

EMUI is polarizing, to be sure. In my view it has lots of small pros and a few of big cons. Those who prefer the look of "Stock" Android will not like it at first (and maybe never), and fair criticism about it, especially its aestethics, can be made. But the author is anything but fair, skipping almost all the value-add of the EMUI and hammering on what is not there or different as undesirables. That does not mean this author gives credit when OEMs decide to adopt "Stock" Android. Heck, I do not think he even likes the "Stock" Android. If what I read in the past is an indication, he will peek at iOS and hammer on things that are different or not there on "Stock" Android until his face turns red.

Camera is, to be sure, not the same one you find on S7 or Note 7. But I have to disagree that it is worse than the Nexus 5X's camera or other $400 phone's cameras, and I do not think the author's own data supports that conclusion. Thankfully the pictures taken by Honor 8 and its competitors are included in the review so users can see for themselves. Oh, and I bet you that this author will tell you that a phone's camera is not worth the extra money when he reviews the S7 or Note 7.

It is too bad that on both of my once-favorite-websites (AT and Ars) are unable to produce informative and balanced reviews on Android products. In the case of AT, timeliness is also an issue and producing lackluster reviews 6 months later seems to be a norm when it comes to Android stuff. And a capable and even-headed writer like Mr. Furumusanu walks away (or may be pushed away). Sigh.

 

[o306]

Arstechnica's low-light picture of the Honor 8 was the worst performance I have seen from the all of the Honor 8 reviews out there. I wish they took several low light shots instead of just that one.

It really stands out as bad compared to other reviews. Other reviews showed much better performance in low light. I wish Anandtech would do a review, but I'm not going to wait 6 months for it.

Right now for me, it is coming down to the discounted HTC 10 or the Honor 8 as far as my next phone.

 

[dark zero]

And thinking that the Xiaomi Redmi Note 2 I have is greater than the phones around the price (130 dollars).. Still, PowerVR 6200 and Mediatek Helio X10 is what I need for a long time and well.. seems that the Honor 8 is a very good choice... if there is a way to get the peruvian LTE bands (which are 2,4,8 and 28) working on that monster.

 

[lopri]

Yesterday I said the readers should make up their own minds based on hard data. But Is hard data published by Ars trustworthy? Curiosity got the better of me and I decided to see for myself. And the result turned out revealing.

ArsTechnica's results are as following,

Kraken: 4027 ms (lower = better)
Octane: 8,021 (higher = better)
Sunspider: 703 ms (lower = better)

The discrepancy is shocking to say the least. I ran my test without any preparation or tweaks on a desk, room temperature (72~74F). The screenshots I posted represent middling scores after I ran each test at least 3 times. Chrome is the only browser that is available on this phone out of the box, so that is what I used and I presume that is what he used. Although at this point I think you probably should not make such an assumption because the score differences are simply too large. I could not get such low scores on this phone if I tried. Did he run the test using a different browser? But if that is the case such information cannot be left out and I am sure he knows that.

Remember yesterday I pointed out how Ron Amadeo leaves out crucial information in his evaluation?

While the CPU power is decent, Huawei skimped on the GPU. The Honor 8 packs an ARM Mali-T880, the same GPU as you'll find in an Exynos variant of a 2016 Samsung flagship. But where the Galaxy S7 has a Mali-T880 MP12—that's 12 GPU cores—the Honor 8 has a Mali-T880 MP4—only 4 GPU cores. So while it'll win in CPU benchmarks, the Honor 8 gets crushed in GPU benchmarks. The storage performance is not spectacular, either.

I showed that this is a misleading statement, because for a complete picture you need to know 1) the clock speeds each GPU runs at, and 2) the screen resolutions each GPU drives. Without that information the message an average reader receives is that Honor 8 is 3 times slower in graphics performance than the S6.

I checked the article again and only place where I could find the information on Honor 8's screen resolution is at the specs table. He might as well have put that in a footnote. And of course the other information is not included in the article. And today, I learn that the data he produce is also not trustworthy.

Could it be that this guy is incompetent? Maybe, but one would hope someone with a platform like Ars had a semblance of self-awareness.

So the picture of this guy emerge, and it is not a pretty one. (no pun intended for those who saw his portrait) It is a person who actively seeks to deceive his readers by presenting selective and misleading information. He is quick to judge, drama-prone, agenda-driven, and a case can be made about his dishonesty. Or else he is an incompetent ignoramus. I do not know which is worse. Either way, I would not trust this guy - including hard data he publishes.

 

[Kazukian]

Interesting results, he double checked his results, says they're accurate.

"I wouldn't put a lot of weight on browser benchmarks, but I double checked and my scores are accurate."



And also said: "GFXBench/Geekbench/Androbench are way more important and speak for themselves."

 

[lopri]

Then he perhaps should post only those numbers, let those numbers speak for themselves, and refrain from opining himself. It is his dishonest statement (e.g. Exynos has 3 times more "cores" than Kirin 950) that got my attention in the first place. I see nothing in his "reply" that rebuts my conclusion or disputes my data. On the latter point we basically have "He said, she said." At least it is something consumers can verify themselves or elsewhere from a more reputable source.

I have advocated browser benchmarks not be used, especially for cross-platform comparison, so yeah I agree that they are not as important. But it is nonetheless interesting that he himself does not put much stock in them after publishing them. Geekbench 3 is, by the way, outdated and cannot be run on this phone as of the date his review was posted.

Edit: Just ran GFXBench.

Ars' numbers are admittedly within a plausible deniability (on the low end of course), but I note that my numbers correspond better with numbers posted here -> http://www.anandtech.com/show/9878/the-huawei-mate-8-review/5

 

[Adam595]

I have a p9 and I'm pretty happy with it. Very smooth and responsive (using nova launcher). I'm not a big gamer but yeah not the strongest GPU in benches. Framerates are pretty much the same as the SD820 if the SD820 is pushing 2K. On the other hand samsung phones can reduce their resolution for gaming to increase FPS making them the better gaming phones, but the P9 and honor 8 do have the option to run at 720p which is good. You can customize emui a little more than most skins with the theme editor from the playstore (FYI, to use it, you need to d/l a theme to edit and then apply the edited theme in huawei's themes app). Something annoying is that some apps won't run in the b/g even when toggled as a protected app; the work around is to downward swipe on the app in the multi tasking screen (a little closed lock appears) then the app is always in cache; bad for battery life maybe but at least it will run in the b/g. This isn't an issue for all apps, lastpass's "fill helper" works without lastpass in cache but not whatsapp's notifications.

Edit: BTW tasker runs in the bg with no problems, so does power amp and neutron player. edit: I just checked if "USB audio player PRO" needs to be cached with the screen off and it does. Without the swipe down method it closes after the screen is turned off. I just checked to make sure it's set as a "protected app" and it is. Apart from this bug I think it's a really good phone.

*UPDATE* There is a way to disable huawei and honor bloatware without root.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/android/software/debloater-remove-carrier-bloat-t2998294

I just used it and it works. Apps don't show as disabled in system apps in settings but they don't run. As an experiment I disabled phone manager and themes because before they ran all the time (developer options>view running/cached services or w/e it's called). The good news is that the problem with apps being closed in the bg or when the screen is off doesn't seem to be happening. The debloater app needs hisuite to be downloaded to a windows pc to work with huawei/honor phones and you need an app to extract the .rar file hisuite comes in (eg 7-Zip), all the other instructions are given in the link. Hope this helps. I could use it to just disable hiVoice and some small apps I don't use but I'm going to experiment with battery life by minimizing everything first. update: re-enabled phone manager because disabling it meant the "kill all apps" button doesn''t work.

 

[lopri]

Unfortunately I have to strongly advise against getting this phone if camera performance is important. It drains battery like crazy.

 

[core2slow]

It's not so much a bug as it's a minor design flaw. Aside from checking the option in the "protected apps" section, you will have to make sure notification is on as well. Lastly, a few of these apps (tasker, secure settings, theme suite, etc) will require "device admin" rights in order to run correctly. So as long as protected apps, notification and device administrator are configured correctly, any apps will run in the bg with screen off. It's a cumbersome way to manage and extend power/battery life, but after using these phones for awhile (luckily Huawei keeps the EMUI pretty similar across the board), you learn how to set up your apps. I have 6 apps "protected"...one of them being tasker with over 20 profiles...and routinely get 10hour of SOT. Protected app is a great approach to managing battery life, but another great thing is managing your BT/GPS/sync apps. That alone will net you a few extra hours of screen on time.

 

[Adam595]

Yeah, all apps with admin rights have stayed open. I still think there is a bug where some apps, that don't require admin rights, close.

edit: Reports of whatsapp not working properly when the screen is off in emui: forum.xda-developers.com/mate-7/help/push-notification-data-screen-off-t2985489

I didnt know it was a thing until I started to have the same problem and googled it. Even saw a review, after I bought my p9, where the reviewer complained about late whatsapp notifications.