HTPC? Xbox 360? Help?!

[BeauJangles]

A few questions for those wiser and more technically savvy members of our community.

First, I'd like a media center. I'm not really interested in recording HD content, but I am interested in HD playback from downloaded files or from DVDs.

I currently have an old computer (2.4 ghz P4, 1 gig ram, Radeon 9800 AIW). Would this be useful at all?
Should I just scrap it and buy something completely new?
If I go the new route, does anybody have a tip for what to include in the system?
If I go looking at new hardware, is it worth considering a PS3 or Xbox 360?

Thanks!

At BlinderBomber request, I'm moving this thread to the AV forum.
RebateMonger - AnandTech Moderator

 

[BeauJangles]

Okay, so it seems the Xbox would work in unison with my current PC and only output at 720p. Is that correct?

 

[BoboKatt]

Hum I hope I can help a bit. I had an "older" system lying around (AMD) since all the new Intel C2D came out and I ended up upgrading. This older system had an AMD x2-4800+ with an ATI x1950XTX and 2 GIGs of RAM. Using Ultra DVD which supports ATI's Avivo, I was able to play HD and blue ray rips (downloaded) and the performance was amazing (along with all other video files, regular DVD's etc).

I use the onboard audio card (realtek) and use the onboard Optical out that goes right to my receiver. The video out is from the DVI of my card using a DVI to HDMI cable (cheap) right to my TV.

I use XP and although I do have a remote, it never really works well so unless you go with Vista, not sure what your options would be for a good well featured remote that works flawlessly in XP and gives you full control of your HTPC features.

Also you your video card MUST support dual-link HDCP if you want the ultra high rez but also it can play back protected content and send it to your TV. Most of the newer ones will do this (video cards I mean) but don't think your 9800 will. Hence you must look at stuff like the 8800 series, x2x00 series from ATI, newer x38xx from ATI ect. There are some really nice video cards out there as well that can do both the digital sound and the video. ATI and Nvidia have a different approach to this... but they do work rather well.

However realize one thing and I learned this the hard way. Currently (at least to my knowledge) there is no way with a home computer (no matter what video card or audio card you have) to be able to output to your receiver trueHD or DTS-HD audio even if you are watching a HD rip or an actual HD or blue ray film. I think the best it can do is simply Dolby Digital. I might be wrong as my info is a few months old. Maybe there is new software out there OTHER than Ultra DVD which I know could not send raw bitstream audio to your receiver (if your receiver supports it that is).

I am on the fence myself in regards to either getting a PS3 (with all the latest updates to firmware) or going for say an actual stand-alone HD player like Toshiba HD-A35 which can send out trueHD and DTS-HD to my Onkio 805.

The reason I was looking at PS3 is that for $399 (the 40GB) and $25 for a remote I would get something which works well, can play games, surf the net and with all the recent firmware updates, has a very good video quality for movies (recent 1080p/24 update). For the Xbox 360 you would still need to add the $200 HD player and I have no idea what its capabilities are -- maybe someone else does. However I am still on the fence with that.

Some folks have actually managed to buy the HD player from the Xbox and connect it directly to their computer which outputs to their TV so for $199? presto you now have a HD DVD playing ability to your TV (if store bought HD DVD?s is your thing) for $200. You would still need to deal with the issues of video cards (HDCP compliant) and digital audio outputted never being TrueHD or DTS-HD (if that is a concern to you).

Does that help?

 

[AndyD2k]

With the latest 360 update, it plays quite a few codecs now including xvid/divx. If you're interested in gaming as well, this may be the best option instead of building a HTPC.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: AndyD2k
With the latest 360 update, it plays quite a few codecs now including xvid/divx. If you're interested in gaming as well, this may be the best option instead of building a HTPC.

What about the PS3? If I was primarily concerned with movies / downloads, not with games, does the PS3 make more sense?

The way I see it, I can probably upgrade my desktop's graphics card, ram, HDD, and buy a remote for around $350. For $400, I could get a nice all-in-one system (Xbox or PS3) which would be significantly quieter than my current computer.

 

[jkresh]

xbox360/ps3 it depends on blueray/hd-dvd, ps3 has some good media playback available through linux, 360 is easier and with the most recent update it can now handle most files. I don't know if either will do that great a job of streaming ripped hd-dvd/blueray from your computer (but that requires a lot of network bandwidth, hard drive capacity and some questionably legal software). The nice thing about going with an htpc is you can now pick up a combo player for about $300 (and a combo that can record to blueray should be out soon at < 400) so you dont have to worry as much about the format war.

If you just care about downloads and streaming from the pc and don't intend to buy into either format yet then it depends on what games you are interested in and if you are willing to deal with linux on the ps3.

 

[AndyD2k]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: AndyD2k
With the latest 360 update, it plays quite a few codecs now including xvid/divx. If you're interested in gaming as well, this may be the best option instead of building a HTPC.

What about the PS3? If I was primarily concerned with movies / downloads, not with games, does the PS3 make more sense?

The way I see it, I can probably upgrade my desktop's graphics card, ram, HDD, and buy a remote for around $350. For $400, I could get a nice all-in-one system (Xbox or PS3) which would be significantly quieter than my current computer.

Well, if you want quiet, the 360 is probably not the best idea. You can still hear a fan spinning even when playing video. By no means as loud as when playing a game, which is pretty damn loud (like a hair dryer), but I still think it's noticeable enough when watching movies. Then again, I'm in small room with all my gear so you may not notice it as much. I still watch videos on it though including HD DVDs through the add on

PS3 is supposed to get better video codec support. When I'm not so sure but I would imagine that this is a definite now considering Microsoft went ahead with providing support for a wider range of codecs.

You do get bluray built in which is a huge plus. $400 for a game system, quite good dvd upscaler and bluray seems like a pretty damn good deal if you ask me. I bought a 60gb over the summer for mostly movies and I've been pretty happy with it in regards to that. For gaming, though, I barely use it as the 360 has been the better option for multi platform games up until now but if you're not concerned about gaming then the PS3 game support is just icing on the cake.

Building a HTPC has it pluses as well - mostly dealing with the fact that you have much more control over what you can do with it. With that comes a price - you have to worry about setting up and maintaining it

For me, I'm willing to sacrifice functionality as long as I can watch whatever video format on my tv. 360 does that and I hope the PS3 will do the same as well eventually

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: AndyD2k

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: AndyD2k
With the latest 360 update, it plays quite a few codecs now including xvid/divx. If you're interested in gaming as well, this may be the best option instead of building a HTPC.

What about the PS3? If I was primarily concerned with movies / downloads, not with games, does the PS3 make more sense?

The way I see it, I can probably upgrade my desktop's graphics card, ram, HDD, and buy a remote for around $350. For $400, I could get a nice all-in-one system (Xbox or PS3) which would be significantly quieter than my current computer.

Well, if you want quiet, the 360 is probably not the best idea. You can still hear a fan spinning even when playing video. By no means as loud as when playing a game, which is pretty damn loud (like a hair dryer), but I still think it's noticeable enough when watching movies. Then again, I'm in small room with all my gear so you may not notice it as much. I still watch videos on it though including HD DVDs through the add on

PS3 is supposed to get better video codec support. When I'm not so sure but I would imagine that this is a definite now considering Microsoft went ahead with providing support for a wider range of codecs.

You do get bluray built in which is a huge plus. $400 for a game system, quite good dvd upscaler and bluray seems like a pretty damn good deal if you ask me. I bought a 60gb over the summer for mostly movies and I've been pretty happy with it in regards to that. For gaming, though, I barely use it as the 360 has been the better option for multi platform games up until now but if you're not concerned about gaming then the PS3 game support is just icing on the cake.

Building a HTPC has it pluses as well - mostly dealing with the fact that you have much more control over what you can do with it. With that comes a price - you have to worry about setting up and maintaining it

For me, I'm willing to sacrifice functionality as long as I can watch whatever video format on my tv. 360 does that and I hope the PS3 will do the same as well eventually

I've been trying to find some information about this topic, but have been pretty unsuccessful. First, it seems that by installing linux on the PS3, you can pretty much play anything - right?

Second, in terms of building an HTPC what sort of specs would I need to be able to output HD content? Can I do this with my current computer (see first post) with a few additions - new graphics card, more ram, new hard-drive? I'm only slightly opposed to this because I kind of like having an independent desktop.

Third, the WMC interface is really nice. What sort of options are available for the PS3?

Finally, recording content isn't so important to me right now (we don't have HD cable), but it might become marginally important eventually. That would tip the scales towards an HTPC, right?

edit: one more question the subject of recording TV - how exactly does this work? Do you split the cable after it comes into your living room to the cable box and to the HTPC? If so, how does the HTPC's tuner code decode the signal properly? Sorry, that's a real noob question.

 

[jkresh]

1. yes with linux on the ps3 you can play all non drmd formats/files, just remember that from linux's point of view te ps3 is a ppc, so you need stuff that is compatable with that (ie not all distributions/programs have ppc options)
2. I think with the proper gpu your current system could handle hd content (720p is definite, 1080p is borderline), you would need a gpu with hardware decoding (8500/8600, 2600/3850) and I don't know what agp options there are for those cards.
3. myth tv is one of the better linux multimedia front ends, but I don't know if it has a ppc distribution.
4. You would have two otpions, you can split the cable before it goes to the box, and then you would get basic channels on the pc (and you would be able to record something different then what you were watching) or you could run svideo out of the cable box into the pc, and then you could record whatever you were watching (including premium channels).

You may want to ask a mod to move this to the Audio/Video and Home theater forum as you will likely get more responses there as to htpc specifics.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: jkresh
1. yes with linux on the ps3 you can play all non drmd formats/files, just remember that from linux's point of view te ps3 is a ppc, so you need stuff that is compatable with that (ie not all distributions/programs have ppc options)
2. I think with the proper gpu your current system could handle hd content (720p is definite, 1080p is borderline), you would need a gpu with hardware decoding (8500/8600, 2600/3850) and I don't know what agp options there are for those cards.
3. myth tv is one of the better linux multimedia front ends, but I don't know if it has a ppc distribution.
4. You would have two otpions, you can split the cable before it goes to the box, and then you would get basic channels on the pc (and you would be able to record something different then what you were watching) or you could run svideo out of the cable box into the pc, and then you could record whatever you were watching (including premium channels).

You may want to ask a mod to move this to the Audio/Video and Home theater forum as you will likely get more responses there as to htpc specifics.

Thanks for the reply. First, I did send a PM requesting the thread to be moved... clearly that hasn't happened yet.

It seems like running PS3 as the primary media player is a bit of a pain in the ass from what you're saying. The standard PS3 software doesn't support Divx and, because linux recognizes the PS3 as a PowerPC, there isn't much support for codecs there either. I looked into MythTV and it seems like the builds that are running on the PS3 are woefully slow.

So, as for my hardware, you say it's borderline for running 1080p content. If I were going to build an HTPC instead of using my machine, are there any recommended builds you'd start me off with?

Thanks again, you've been really helpful!

 

[jkresh]

A p4 at 2.4ghz wont be able to handle 1080p without a gpu with decoding capabilities (you could pick up an agp 2600pro from newegg for around $120). I believe with that cards decoding capabilities your system would be ok and if all you want to do is playback hd content (ie no gaming, or other usage) that will be your cheapest option. You may also want to add more ram (another gig would be good, especially if you will have anything running in the background while playing 1080p content).

Otherwise I would recommend building an inexpensive core 2 based system with either a 2600xt or 8600gt (if you don't care about gaming at all, or a 3850/3870/8800gt if you do).
What other parts does your p4 have and what would your budget be if you were building something new, also what is the resolution of the display are you connecting it to (720p/1080p...)?

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: jkresh
A p4 at 2.4ghz wont be able to handle 1080p without a gpu with decoding capabilities (you could pick up an agp 2600pro from newegg for around $120). I believe with that cards decoding capabilities your system would be ok and if all you want to do is playback hd content (ie no gaming, or other usage) that will be your cheapest option. You may also want to add more ram (another gig would be good, especially if you will have anything running in the background while playing 1080p content).

Otherwise I would recommend building an inexpensive core 2 based system with either a 2600xt or 8600gt (if you don't care about gaming at all, or a 3850/3870/8800gt if you do).
What other parts does your p4 have and what would your budget be if you were building something new, also what is the resolution of the display are you connecting it to (720p/1080p...)?

If I was going with the p4, most of it is pretty useless. It has an Epox motherboard, Audigy 2 sound card... nothing else of significance.

My budget would be, honestly, as cheap as possible. Preferably around $400 all said and done. Playing games might be nice, but it depends on how much that would drive up the cost. Some of this also depends on whether or not I buy my dad's laptop - which would make this desktop unnecessary and thus an HTPC candidate.

The computer would connect to a Samsung which does 1080i.

Like I said early, I'd love to use the need for an HTPC to buy a PS3 or an Xbox 360.

Any thoughts?

 

[AndyD2k]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: AndyD2k

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: AndyD2k
With the latest 360 update, it plays quite a few codecs now including xvid/divx. If you're interested in gaming as well, this may be the best option instead of building a HTPC.

What about the PS3? If I was primarily concerned with movies / downloads, not with games, does the PS3 make more sense?

The way I see it, I can probably upgrade my desktop's graphics card, ram, HDD, and buy a remote for around $350. For $400, I could get a nice all-in-one system (Xbox or PS3) which would be significantly quieter than my current computer.

Well, if you want quiet, the 360 is probably not the best idea. You can still hear a fan spinning even when playing video. By no means as loud as when playing a game, which is pretty damn loud (like a hair dryer), but I still think it's noticeable enough when watching movies. Then again, I'm in small room with all my gear so you may not notice it as much. I still watch videos on it though including HD DVDs through the add on

PS3 is supposed to get better video codec support. When I'm not so sure but I would imagine that this is a definite now considering Microsoft went ahead with providing support for a wider range of codecs.

You do get bluray built in which is a huge plus. $400 for a game system, quite good dvd upscaler and bluray seems like a pretty damn good deal if you ask me. I bought a 60gb over the summer for mostly movies and I've been pretty happy with it in regards to that. For gaming, though, I barely use it as the 360 has been the better option for multi platform games up until now but if you're not concerned about gaming then the PS3 game support is just icing on the cake.

Building a HTPC has it pluses as well - mostly dealing with the fact that you have much more control over what you can do with it. With that comes a price - you have to worry about setting up and maintaining it

For me, I'm willing to sacrifice functionality as long as I can watch whatever video format on my tv. 360 does that and I hope the PS3 will do the same as well eventually

I've been trying to find some information about this topic, but have been pretty unsuccessful. First, it seems that by installing linux on the PS3, you can pretty much play anything - right?

Second, in terms of building an HTPC what sort of specs would I need to be able to output HD content? Can I do this with my current computer (see first post) with a few additions - new graphics card, more ram, new hard-drive? I'm only slightly opposed to this because I kind of like having an independent desktop.

Third, the WMC interface is really nice. What sort of options are available for the PS3?

Finally, recording content isn't so important to me right now (we don't have HD cable), but it might become marginally important eventually. That would tip the scales towards an HTPC, right?

edit: one more question the subject of recording TV - how exactly does this work? Do you split the cable after it comes into your living room to the cable box and to the HTPC? If so, how does the HTPC's tuner code decode the signal properly? Sorry, that's a real noob question.

Here are my 2 cents...

I can't comment on building a HTPC but I can comment on Linux on the PS3. If you're thinking about buying a PS3 because of this then I don't you should. There are serious limitations because of locks on the hardware. Now that doesn't mean it will stay that way and I remember reading that there were improvements in drivers from user created ones that improved video playback but it's still far too much of a pain to get things running. I spent about a month messing with it but gave up on it. Honestly, XBMC on the old xbox does a much better job as media center than Linux on the PS3 can do at the moment. As people get better at handling it's limitations and taking advantage of all the spus then it may be different but for now i think you should avoid it altogether.

One thing that really annoyed the hell out of me was the fact that I couldn't get linux to fill my screen. Not a problem for people who have newer LCDs but I have a LCD where I can't turn off overscan so either I get borders all around or the image passes the edges. No way of really adjusting this because of the drivers

As for the interface/xmb on the PS3 itself, it's pretty simple. It's just folder driven. Pretty simple and not a lot of control over the setup. Note that the 360 is not that much different but you do get a Media Center Extender which you can use with a PC if you have Media Center installed or have Vista Premium / Ultimate. Still no xvid support within that but I would imagine that gets addressed at some point

 

[AndyD2k]

bump...

http://uk.playstation.com/ps3/...cles/detail/item89434/

looks like the ps3 is getting divx / wmv / bluray 1.1 support this week