HTPC with ATI HD 5970 - Can only hear in stereo!

[Fox5]

The ATI drivers weren't behaving properly. They worked fine in stereo, but whenever I tried turning them into 5.1 in the control panel, it would tell me there was some error doing it. I gave up and switched to Realtek.




Looks like there's no way around that new sound card. I guess I wouldn't mind swinging an extra $100 or so. I'd love a suggestion or two to a specific card.

Ideally I would like to pick up one of those that mixes the audio into the HDMI to minimize cabling that was mentioned up there. I honestly don't know where to begin with sound cards!

Thanks for the help guys!

The only way(s) to mix into HDMI is to:
Get the expensive Auzentech card, runs $200-$250.
Or
Get an older nvidia card, they didn't have HDMI audio built in so they used a pass through from the motherboard via a cable. Maybe newer cards can still do that?

I've also seen some external adapters (no-name chinese stuff) that can bridge a digital picture and spdif audio into one.

As for cards:
The Asus Xonar cards are cheap and very highly rated. However, some games do rely on Creative's proprietary APIs for proper surround sound (pretty much every EA game), so there's good reason to want a Creative sound card. Something like X-fi Fatal1ty Professional.

And to the other people in the thread getting 6 channel surround sound from games:
You're not doing Dolby Digital Live. You're doing 6 channel LPCM, the digital equivalent of running a separate cable for each sound channel. Not every video card supports this (I think ATI only got it as of the 5xxx series, still not sure if nvidia has it) and not every receiver supports it, older ones certainly don't, and I still think it's primarily a high end feature on newer ones.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

The only way(s) to mix into HDMI is to:
Get the expensive Auzentech card, runs $200-$250.
Or
Get an older nvidia card, they didn't have HDMI audio built in so they used a pass through from the motherboard via a cable. Maybe newer cards can still do that?

I've also seen some external adapters (no-name chinese stuff) that can bridge a digital picture and spdif audio into one.

As for cards:
The Asus Xonar cards are cheap and very highly rated. However, some games do rely on Creative's proprietary APIs for proper surround sound (pretty much every EA game), so there's good reason to want a Creative sound card. Something like X-fi Fatal1ty Professional.

And to the other people in the thread getting 6 channel surround sound from games:
You're not doing Dolby Digital Live. You're doing 6 channel LPCM, the digital equivalent of running a separate cable for each sound channel. Not every video card supports this (I think ATI only got it as of the 5xxx series, still not sure if nvidia has it) and not every receiver supports it, older ones certainly don't, and I still think it's primarily a high end feature on newer ones.

Right but the op said he gets sound out of all speakers when in the audio control panel which indicates that his receiver does support it, and I know that card definitely does. My 2+ year old Onkyo 606 supports LPCM.

 

[Fox5]

Right but the op said he gets sound out of all speakers when in the audio control panel which indicates that his receiver does support it, and I know that card definitely does. My 2+ year old Onkyo 606 supports LPCM.

Good point, in that case it may just require playing with some settings. He said sound works with a friend's laptop though.

 

[nidalm]

I don't think this is correct. Most newer receivers and video cards do support it. I agree with simonizor that the games just don't have surround. I don't think the op has a hardware problem. Op when you go into the control panel and play the test sounds what time of input is the receiver indicating?

Input is 1080i, PCM 3/2/0.1 pretty much all the time unless I turn on ac3filter, at which point it turns into DTS 3/2/0.1

I just did a bunch of testing and it turns out that the surround function is working but it's very fickle.

• On VLC player, movies run with perfect surround sound (yay!) Input says PCM 3/2/0.1
• On MPC, same movie will run only in stereo while saying PCM 3/2/0.1 in amp. Fine with ac3filter.
• Turns out my music collection is pretty much all 2 channel, ac3filter gives it a 'surround' effect. Same with stereo movies.
• Civ 5 is running full surround, PCM 3/2/0.1
• Mass Effect 2 seems to be running quadraphonic only (center speaker off)
• Settlers 7 working well.

I think this is a very manageable problem and as someone pointed out, an issue with the implementation of surround support on the app developers side.

Still, I've never heard of such problems cropping up with analog surround sound. Is there a universal app or driver that will convert non-surround sound to "surround" sound (notice, quotes ) for other apps like ac3filter does?

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I don't know of anything on the software side. You are probably getting surround sound in your movies because the original track is 5.1, not because AC3filter is creating them, or because you are passing through a 2 channel signal and your receiver is creating them. You might want to try uninstalling all third party codecs and then installing the shark007 codec pack. It includes all major codecs and lets you turn them on and off, switch between them, and change all their settings from one control panel. But expect to spend some time tinkering with it to get everything working right.

The best way to get "virtual" surround sound is to get your pc to pass through the original track and let your receiver create the virtual tracks. But I don't think this will work with games.

I'd also add that might want to consider if you really wan't virtual surround on all sources. Music that is recorded in stereo should really be played back in stereo.

 

[Fox5]

Input is 1080i, PCM 3/2/0.1 pretty much all the time unless I turn on ac3filter, at which point it turns into DTS 3/2/0.1

I just did a bunch of testing and it turns out that the surround function is working but it's very fickle.

• On VLC player, movies run with perfect surround sound (yay!) Input says PCM 3/2/0.1
• On MPC, same movie will run only in stereo while saying PCM 3/2/0.1 in amp. Fine with ac3filter.
• Turns out my music collection is pretty much all 2 channel, ac3filter gives it a 'surround' effect. Same with stereo movies.
• Civ 5 is running full surround, PCM 3/2/0.1
• Mass Effect 2 seems to be running quadraphonic only (center speaker off)
• Settlers 7 working well.

I think this is a very manageable problem and as someone pointed out, an issue with the implementation of surround support on the app developers side.

Still, I've never heard of such problems cropping up with analog surround sound. Is there a universal app or driver that will convert non-surround sound to "surround" sound (notice, quotes ) for other apps like ac3filter does?

Creative cards are available for ~$50, and can add surround sound into movies and games that lack it. Also, Mass Effect 2 is an Electronics Arts game, it relies on the Creative X-Fi for the best surround sound (unfortunately).
I think Creative does sell some sort of software implementation of their ...well software that goes with their sound cards though.

 

[Attic]

There is a lot of good informatino here mixed in with some misinformtion. I've been using HTPC's for gaming a long time now, i'll add in to this thread what I know. Bottom line is you don't need to encode game audio to DD or DTS to get surround. If the game supports surround sound via analog, then this can be sent as up to 8 channel PCM via the HDMI cable to your HT reciever for amplification and reproductino from your 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system.

5.1 from games (7.1 for that matter) can be sent from the newer video cards (HD4000 series and GTX400 series for certain) to a Home Theatre reciever via the HDMI cable. The sound is not encoded to DTS or DD, the multiple streams, 5.1 or 7.1, are sent as a PCM stream to the reciever via the HDMI cable.

In this way any game that was to send 5.1 or 7.1 via analog cables simples sends those streams via up to 8 channel PCM to the Home Theatre Reciever where the discreet SS channels are amplified and sent out to the gamers surrounds sound system.

There are some pitfalls to watch out for in the setup. You need to make sure your display device shows as your Home Theatre Reciver and not your TV. Home Theatre reciever will recieve the multi channel audio from games. If the TV shows up as your display device then it's EDID info will be seen by your HTPC/Drivers and the HTPC will only think it can send 2 channel PCM. Home Theatre Reciever can recieve up to 8 channel PCM via the HTPC if the HTPC knows that it is sending to the reciever and not the TV. The HT reciever's EDID info is to thank for this.

The reason you may be getting DTS or DD from your movies while getting only stereo from everything else is because you are likely bitsreaming the audio from your movie file out of the HTPC. Bitstreaming DTS or DD will get you SS whether or not the HTPC thinks it's connected to the HT reciever or the TV. Get your HTPC to see your reciever as it's display device, then set audio options to 5.1 or 7.1 then play a game that supports surround sound (most any from the past 5 years) and you will get your discreet surround sound from the game.

 

[MoMeanMugs]

I have no issue with getting 7.1 in the games I play. BFBC2 supports it, as does Company of Heroes. If you want stereo sources to fill your speakers, go to the Control Panel and open Sound. Under the playback tab, select your device and click Properties in the lower right corner. Under the Enhancements tab, check off Speaker Fill. This will make stereo sources fill your 5.1 setup, but it doesn't affect something that is already multi-speaker.

 

[nidalm]

Thank you so much for the help guys. I've been doing a lot of reading and fiddling thanks to the weekend and Attic is correct in that my HTPC, for the most part, does output PCM 5.1 to my receiver (a Yamaha HTR-3063 btw). The receiver always sees an input of PCM 5.1 now which is perfect and means surround is always possible if the app supports it.

Theres no way for me to tell if (non-movie) apps have SS except bu running upto rear speakers and checking, but for those that don't I found out I can switch on one of my 'enhancer' settings on the amp which seems to create a virtual surround effect.

I'd like to say my problem is solved. Thank you so much for the help everybody. I really appreciate it!

 

[Fox5]

Thank you so much for the help guys. I've been doing a lot of reading and fiddling thanks to the weekend and Attic is correct in that my HTPC, for the most part, does output PCM 5.1 to my receiver (a Yamaha HTR-3063 btw). The receiver always sees an input of PCM 5.1 now which is perfect and means surround is always possible if the app supports it.

Theres no way for me to tell if (non-movie) apps have SS except bu running upto rear speakers and checking, but for those that don't I found out I can switch on one of my 'enhancer' settings on the amp which seems to create a virtual surround effect.

I'd like to say my problem is solved. Thank you so much for the help everybody. I really appreciate it!

So I still wouldn't discount the Creative card, their software can add surround sound into any source and I think the effective is pretty good. A lot of people don't like it (it is changing the sound as it was designed after all), but I'm really in love with the effect. Windows has something built in to do it too, but it didn't work as well as Creative's stuff. I guess really Creative should just sell the sound software and ditch the cards.

 

[nidalm]

So I still wouldn't discount the Creative card, their software can add surround sound into any source and I think the effective is pretty good. A lot of people don't like it (it is changing the sound as it was designed after all), but I'm really in love with the effect. Windows has something built in to do it too, but it didn't work as well as Creative's stuff. I guess really Creative should just sell the sound software and ditch the cards.

Noted. A sound card is my next upgrade on the line. Given what you said about games using proprietary features on the Creative cards, it sounds like a must.

 

[nidalm]

Just in case somebody comes across this thread and needs details on what I went through to get my home theater working with the 5970. The relevant devices / software I have are:

Sapphire HD 5970 Gfx Card
Gigabyte P35-D3SR Motherboard with an Intel Q6600
Yamaha HTR-3063 5.1 Home Theater
Optoma HD-20 DLP Projector
Windows 7
Catalyst 11.2

• My Sapphire 5970 does not come with an HDMI output. But the card supports audio over DVI. Using the adapter provided by ATI, I connected an HDMI cable from the card to my home theater input. I plan to test if this works with the DisplayPort soon enough, but every indication is that it will.
• There was no sound from the amp's speakers initially. To enable them, I had to go into "Control Panel > Sounds". There, I had to right click "ATI HDMI Audio" and set it as the default output.
• The sound coming out was still stereo. Heading back into control panel > sounds, and under settings for the ATI HDMI Audio, I selected "5.1". Hitting next to finish the setup consistently gave me an error. Could not found out why. So instead, I downloaded the "Realtek ATI HDMI Audio Device Driver v R2.55" and installed it. This worked perfectly with 5.1 and has the added advantage of being accessible from the system tray in the RealTek sound menu.
• At this point, setup is essentially complete and the HDMI connection will essentially carry PCM 5.1 surround to the HTPC. Only problem is, non-surround sources, will be played only as stereo. This felt like a waste to me so I wanted to take the additional step of being able to enhance stereo to 5.1.
• I was met with some limited success with ac3filter. I'm not exactly sure what it does, but for some mp3s and movies, it managed to make them play sort of like surround.
• I found out that my home theater can has a 5.1 'enhancement' mode, which will play 2.1 sound as virtual 5.1. However, the reason I could never find it in the menus was because it only works on audio bitrates of 96kHz and I had my sound bitrate to 144kHz. To change this, I went back to the "Sound" in Control Panel and selected "properties" in the HDMI sound device. In one of the menus, I could change the bitrate to 96kHz and the rest of it magically worked out in the amp.
• As Fox5 suggested, there are better ways to accomplish the last step in the form of Creative's excellent line of sound cards which provide additional features as well. Might do this soon enough!

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[Creig]

Creative's excellent line of sound cards

I'm not sure I've ever seen the word "excellent" used in the same sentence with "Creative" before today.