LMFAO, damn unicorns! I did read the posts correctly but doing some research on stand alones by reading reviews on amazon and newegg as well as cnet proved that i would have to spend more money than the cost of a PS3 to get a good one. That samsung one that was recommend got terrible reviews. So I figured for price, PS3 would still be better. I do intend on building a HTPC still (eventually) for all the other functionality.
Yeah, the PS3 may be over kill, but it's oddly future proof.. Or future friendly, and gets firmware updates until the PS4 comes out and makes it obsolete, while Samsung BD-Whatever? Who knows when they'll stop officially supporting it? That's my problem with korean electronics manufacturers, sometimes it's harder than it should be to track down firmwares. Well, my beef is with LG in particular, but I'll make broad statements
I have an HTPC and it's a love hate relationship. It's nice to be able to consolidate everything into a single device (I'd recommend the media live diva motherboards, and then you can ditch the separate audio receiver, as well as instantly solve the crappy surround sound audio of pcs with games not doing dolby digital, and the hardware not able to output truehd), but so many things don't work well, or at least not all together.
Blu-ray playback is nearly hopeless on HTPCs. Your best option is the $100 PowerDVD9 Ultra, on top of the $100 you paid for a bluray drive. You may as well just get a stand alone player for $100, which may even include streaming netflix, pandora, and youtube.
Windows Media Center is a glitchy piece of crap with suspend/resume problems, codec issues up the the wazoo, and general problems. I'd recommend MythTV over it, but then that's Linux and you'll never play Blu-ray or streaming netflix. Windows Media Center is horrible at upscaling SD content too, and not great at playing back HD. WMC is the best option for live TV however, since little else focuses on it. However, until cablecard support is actually available on PC, tv support is nearly worthless. MythTV works better, but you have to pay $10 a year for guide data. Antenna/free HD stations aren't bad (and the rather awesome hdhomerun integrates well into a lot of programs, even ones that don't normally support TV), but all the content can be found streaming online (at lower quality and a bit of a wait).
Boxee and XBMC are fantastic with torrented content, and Boxee integrates nicely into quite a few streaming video websites. Unfortunately, Hulu continually clashes with it, but eventually it's supposed to have support for both Hulu and Fancast (comcast's attempt to kill internet streaming video by tieing it to your cable account) working well.
There's no unified, good interfaces for PC games or emulated games. Also, putting in a high end video card to handle games means you lose the aesthetic appeal battle, as any media center larger than itx size is just ugly and out of place.
And an HTPC is a computer, so it's going to have problems and annoyances. You could just use it with a normal PC interface, but that's ill-suited.
My current HTPC setup is as follows:
Running Windows 7 (if it wasn't for games and blu ray, I'd be running Linux)
Have PowerDVD9 set up to automatically run when a blu-ray is inserted. (ripping blu-rays with something like windvdx is also acceptable, if you have the space)
Windows Media Center runs in the background (automatic feature of windows), purely to record shows I'm interested in. I then have to manually convert these shows, as WMC uses a format that only it understands. I could just play back the files in WMC, but it sucks at upscaling/playback and is a glitchy piece of slow crap.
Boxee is my primary interface, it works well with netflix streaming and content stored locally (including those converted recorded tv shows). Hopefully soon they'll get Hulu and Fancast support worked out.
Use a logitech wireless keyboard. Use 360 controllers for games. Use a regular Xbox controller hooked up with a USB adapter, custom drivers, and XPadder to emulate a keyboard/mouse for games that don't support 360 controllers. Have a Gyration Media Center remote, and I'd recommend it as a must have for any HTPC. Not only is it the best wireless gyration mouse I've used, but it's also a universal remote. Do yourself a favor and get the one that has a built in LCD screen for managing your music libraries without having to turn on the screen.
Wasn't sure what I wanted at first, so I got an ATX case that's been designed carefully to be about the size of an matx case (only supports mid range vid cards though). Honestly, if I did it again, I'd either go media live diva (and thus get the built in receiver, anyone know if that can be bought separately and what kind of power supply you need?) in an matx case, go itx, or go for a shuttle xpc, which is basically itx size with full size video card support.
I also have:
A DVD player that can playback DIVX files burned to discs. It is too much of a hassle to burn content I want to watch.
A blu-ray player with built in netflix and pandora streaming. It was only $100, and due to its picture quality and ease of use has basically taken over for dvd/bluray watching and pandora streaming. I sometimes use it for netflix, but the netflix and pandora streaming on it require you to go to a computer first to add movies/stations.
I'd say go with the PS3 if your primary goal is playing games and watching Blurays.
Go with a modded Xbox (original) running XBMC if streaming downloaded content and playing emulated games is a concern.
Get a TIVO if you want a DVR.
Get a Roku box (they're pretty cheap) if Netflix streaming and Amazon on demand rentals (they have pretty much all new releases) appeals to you.
Get the Boxee box if streaming web content and streaming downloaded media appeals to you.
If you want to integrate many things into one imperfect device, get an HTPC. Though given the cost of bluray playback software and its sorry state of integration, getting a bluray player of some type to supplement an HTPC wouldn't be a bad idea.
And once again, until cablecard support emerges (and it's going to be expensive), a Tivo is a better DVR.
Blu-ray playback is nearly hopeless on HTPCs. Your best option is the $100 PowerDVD9 Ultra, on top of the $100 you paid for a bluray drive. You may as well just get a stand alone player for $100, which may even include streaming netflix, pandora, and youtube.
Windows Media Center is a glitchy piece of crap with suspend/resume problems, codec issues up the the wazoo, and general problems. I'd recommend MythTV over it, but then that's Linux and you'll never play Blu-ray or streaming netflix. Windows Media Center is horrible at upscaling SD content too, and not great at playing back HD. WMC is the best option for live TV however, since little else focuses on it. However, until cablecard support is actually available on PC, tv support is nearly worthless. MythTV works better, but you have to pay $10 a year for guide data. Antenna/free HD stations aren't bad (and the rather awesome hdhomerun integrates well into a lot of programs, even ones that don't normally support TV), but all the content can be found streaming online (at lower quality and a bit of a wait).
Boxee and XBMC are fantastic with torrented content, and Boxee integrates nicely into quite a few streaming video websites. Unfortunately, Hulu continually clashes with it, but eventually it's supposed to have support for both Hulu and Fancast (comcast's attempt to kill internet streaming video by tieing it to your cable account) working well.
There's no unified, good interfaces for PC games or emulated games. Also, putting in a high end video card to handle games means you lose the aesthetic appeal battle, as any media center larger than itx size is just ugly and out of place.
And an HTPC is a computer, so it's going to have problems and annoyances. You could just use it with a normal PC interface, but that's ill-suited.
My current HTPC setup is as follows:
Running Windows 7 (if it wasn't for games and blu ray, I'd be running Linux)
Have PowerDVD9 set up to automatically run when a blu-ray is inserted. (ripping blu-rays with something like windvdx is also acceptable, if you have the space)
Windows Media Center runs in the background (automatic feature of windows), purely to record shows I'm interested in. I then have to manually convert these shows, as WMC uses a format that only it understands. I could just play back the files in WMC, but it sucks at upscaling/playback and is a glitchy piece of slow crap.
Boxee is my primary interface, it works well with netflix streaming and content stored locally (including those converted recorded tv shows). Hopefully soon they'll get Hulu and Fancast support worked out.
Use a logitech wireless keyboard. Use 360 controllers for games. Use a regular Xbox controller hooked up with a USB adapter, custom drivers, and XPadder to emulate a keyboard/mouse for games that don't support 360 controllers. Have a Gyration Media Center remote, and I'd recommend it as a must have for any HTPC. Not only is it the best wireless gyration mouse I've used, but it's also a universal remote. Do yourself a favor and get the one that has a built in LCD screen for managing your music libraries without having to turn on the screen.
Wasn't sure what I wanted at first, so I got an ATX case that's been designed carefully to be about the size of an matx case (only supports mid range vid cards though). Honestly, if I did it again, I'd either go media live diva (and thus get the built in receiver, anyone know if that can be bought separately and what kind of power supply you need?) in an matx case, go itx, or go for a shuttle xpc, which is basically itx size with full size video card support.
I also have:
A DVD player that can playback DIVX files burned to discs. It is too much of a hassle to burn content I want to watch.
A blu-ray player with built in netflix and pandora streaming. It was only $100, and due to its picture quality and ease of use has basically taken over for dvd/bluray watching and pandora streaming. I sometimes use it for netflix, but the netflix and pandora streaming on it require you to go to a computer first to add movies/stations.
I'd say go with the PS3 if your primary goal is playing games and watching Blurays.
Go with a modded Xbox (original) running XBMC if streaming downloaded content and playing emulated games is a concern.
Get a TIVO if you want a DVR.
Get a Roku box (they're pretty cheap) if Netflix streaming and Amazon on demand rentals (they have pretty much all new releases) appeals to you.
Get the Boxee box if streaming web content and streaming downloaded media appeals to you.
If you want to integrate many things into one imperfect device, get an HTPC. Though given the cost of bluray playback software and its sorry state of integration, getting a bluray player of some type to supplement an HTPC wouldn't be a bad idea.
And once again, until cablecard support emerges (and it's going to be expensive), a Tivo is a better DVR.
I agree - HTPCs sure do everything, but there's effort involved! People who claim that it's effortless are just used to ripping shit, pirating shit, installing shit.. So much shit that dedicated boxes do without effort. Internalizing the process doesn't mean that the process doesn't exist. It's actually kinda embarrassing, convincing myself and others that Media Center makes a good DVR, when you can't even record your favorite HBO show! Mapping channels, crossing my fingers and hoping even TNT is unencrypted.. Bah, I gave that shit up and paid for a rental PVR... Then lets talk about Blu-ray playback - seamless? Oh, shut up already! I tried trials of every app out there and Arcsoft was the best, but I still had issues with audio over HDMI, and I A/Bed a stand alone player with my HTPC - picture quality was just better with the dinky insignia player vs my htpc.
Think about all you'll do with a media center and really think if an HTPC is the best option. Often times it's not, expecially when factoring in the expense.
I kicked myself in the shin due to the realization - "wait, you spent about $800 on a HTPC to replace a $6 a month DVR, and you're still limited to unencrypted cable or OTA? That's really dumb!" or, how about this "you spent xxxx to watch xvids/mkvs on your tv instead of spending $99 on a wd live?? AND you have to put up with a keyboard/mouse in your living room? DUMB!" or.... "You spent $xxx on a htpc to play blurrays half-assedly, when you could have bought a bluray player for $100???!?" DUMB..
You can say that the HTPC replaces a bunch of things... Let's do the match:
HTPC replaces DVR - well, a DVR can cost less than $10 a month, and isn't limited to OTA
HTPC replaces WD TV Live - $100
HTPC replaces bluray player - $100
You're not saving hundreds of bucks here, you're wasting more...
My compromise of a media server (could even be headless, but I use my office computer since it has more than enough horsepower) plus WD TV Lives or xbox 360s as extenders... yay to remote driven experiences!
HTPCs are very 2003, but we've moved on to powerful, fanless, easy to use set top boxes
sivart
Golden Member
- Oct 20, 2000
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Mine was $300 built from scratch (less the OS which I already had), plus I don't pay for cable / satellite, so all my channels are unencrypted. I also use a Harmony remote, so I seldom need a keyboard and / or mouse.
Sure, it takes some work to maintain, but I don't mind. Would I give it to my parents or grandparents, no, not even if they begged
Sure, it takes some work to maintain, but I don't mind. Would I give it to my parents or grandparents, no, not even if they begged
kalrith
Diamond Member
- Aug 22, 2005
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It's different for everyone. I was paying $80/month for DirecTV. Building an HTPC for $500 including everything for the HTPC and the antenna has allowed me to cancel my DirecTV. Can I watch absolutely everything I could with DirecTV? No. Would my wife have been OK with me canceling DirecTV for just an OTA DVR or WD TV Live? No. Therefore, my HTPC saves me $80/month.
I canceled DirecTV on August 22. About mid-March I'll have saved the entire cost of the HTPC. 5 years from now, I'll have saved $4,800 (probably minus a few hundred dollars in hardware and software upgrades). I'm pretty sure I'm saving money and not "wasting more." I know everyone's situation is different, but there are certainly people out there who can save a ton of money with an HTPC.
Also, mine took a while to set up, but now it's pretty seemless. I can control all viewing and OTA recording with my Harmony remote, and the picture is excellent. I still have to do torrents and internet streaming with my Dinovo Mini, but it's such a small and trendy-looking device that it doesn't look bad at all on my coffee table, and it's not a chore like breaking out a huge keyboard and try to use it in my lap. My wife, who doesn't at all like things that aren't seamless and easy to use, likes it very much.
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People constantly have that comparison - "I used to pay $$ a month for cable, now I save thousands a year because of my HTPC," but I think that's a bit of a.. Embellishment... You saved $$ by not having cable tv content, money you would have saved if you had the HTPC or not. Remember, you're paying for content - content that is, by and large, not available on an HTPC, at least legally (I'm talking Big Love, Dexter, i.e. premium content - not OTA primetime network shows that you can get on Hulu, but you can also get that.. OTA.. Without a HTPC).
HTPCs once had a purpose, but now I think they're being phased out because DLNA and the obvious eventual integration of web content on set top boxes.
HTPCs are GREAT, however, for people seeking out alternative content. My parents, for example, watch the news and tv shows (web video) from India - something you can't readily do with a wd live... But how hard could it be to integrate Chrome and flash 10.1 in a set top box, such as the boxee or wd live? Once that happens I'll think there's even less use for a HTPC.
wiretap
Senior member
- Sep 28, 2006
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I got an ATI CableCard tuner on ebay for $189 for a client not too long ago.
That's actually not too bad -how's dual tuner recording on it? Also, do cable companies give you shit about them? I had a non-brand name DVR (moxy?) and they gave me so much shit about it not being a "supported device."
kalrith
Diamond Member
- Aug 22, 2005
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I disagree with this statement. Without my HTPC, I could not record two OTA HD shows at the same time (well, I could do this with the $300 Dish DTVPal, but that's almost as much as the HTPC). With my HTPC I legally watch Ice Road Truckers, ESPN (via ESPN360), and several Food Network and HGTV shows, which comprise most of the "premium content" that I used to watch with DirecTV. There have been a couple shows in the past that I've gotten via torrents, but currently I do everything without even going that route.
Even though I can't get every single show I want to watch legally (FSN and What Not to Wear being the most notable), I can say with certainty that my wife would not have been OK with the switch from a dual-tuner DVR with lots of content to being able to watch 8 live OTA channels. We've basically given up two stations (FSN and TLC) that don't have much/any online content for what we used to watch on there. For everything else that we personally watch, we still watch on the HTPC. I know this isn't true for most people, but we basically save $80/month and only miss out on the content from two TV channels. I wouldn't exactly call that embellishment.
I find that the cable channels (non-premium even) mostly have clips of shows, not entire shows, available on the web. Are you finding that the case? The show that kept me from ditching sat? The Soup! I couldn't find anything but 2 min long clips, and me and my wife are addicted to the show.
Also, $80 is a lot to pay for dish.. I pay $35 and get all the channels I personally need, plus 2 tv dvrs, plus free cinemax for a year... HBO and Showtime are extra but I only have one active at a time (Dexter's the only thing I watch on showtime)..
Lastly - PLAYON! I get all of the web content I'd like on my PS3, wd tv, and xbox 360 using playon + plugins. HGTV, discovery, food network, hulu, etc. all have plugins for playon that work quite well.
As far as not being able to tape OTA without your htpc - I could easily say that you can just get that content off of the web
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wiretap
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I didn't test it out because I have satellite. I did the build for a client, but he said he loves it.
kalrith
Diamond Member
- Aug 22, 2005
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I find that the cable channels (non-premium even) mostly have clips of shows, not entire shows, available on the web. Are you finding that the case? The show that kept me from ditching sat? The Soup! I couldn't find anything but 2 min long clips, and me and my wife are addicted to the show.
Also, $80 is a lot to pay for dish.. I pay $35 and get all the channels I personally need, plus 2 tv dvrs, plus free cinemax for a year... HBO and Showtime are extra but I only have one active at a time (Dexter's the only thing I watch on showtime)..
Lastly - PLAYON! I get all of the web content I'd like on my PS3, wd tv, and xbox 360 using playon + plugins. HGTV, discovery, food network, hulu, etc. all have plugins for playon that work quite well.
As far as not being able to tape OTA without your htpc - I could easily say that you can just get that content off of the web
Some stations like TLC put mostly 2-minute clips of shows, but HGTV, History, and Food Network seem to be really good about posting full episodes (at least of the shows we watch). ESPN360 airs most of their live sports, which is great because the lack of ESPN is what kept us paying for satellite for a long time.
For the first year we paid $60/month because we had a $20/month discount. That was for their first decent package plus a second DVR, plus HD, plus the Sports Pack. Towards the end we dropped it to their absolute cheapest package. It was basically local channels with Food Network, HGTV, and several crap channels. Because of the second DVR and HD, we were still paying $52/month for that.
I thought about going the Playon route, but that still wouldn't have solved the lack of a dual-tuner DVR. And online compressed SD is no substitute for OTA uncompressed HD, which is my main reason for wanting an HD DVR. In my situation 70+% of what I watch is on networks, so settling for SD network content would be a much bigger deal than settling for the little SD premium content I watch.
I hear ya. Playon is often annoying as well, there's currently no perfect solution out there. Fingers crossed that cable cards in PCs become more mainstream, or that subscription IPTV becomes an option... We're THIS CLOSE to a major iptv revolution, I can just feel it!
Find me a cablecard adapter.
Done?
Now find me one that doesn't cost as much as a stand alone tivo.
I'm sure it will get there eventually.
Of course, then your only option is windows media center anyway, which means the content is DRMed to work only with Windows Media Center, which has some of the worst playback quality of any software or device you could use.
Supposedly the pc upscaling is better, but the dvd players and blu-rays will work without any configuration or messing about with control panels and settings. No stuttering either for when your virus scanner or updates manager decides to load.
In practice, I doubt you'd notice a difference in quality.
Also, on the PC it's going to depend on your app. Windows Media Center/Player are horrid at upscaling, but nothing else integrates a remote friendly interface quite so well. But wmc doesn't play back blu-rays anyway, so you're going to be loading up a separate program (most likely only useful for dvd and blu ray playback) anyway.
Unless you're using ted, or ripping blurays and dvds yourself, the appeal of an HTPC greatly falls.
wiretap
Senior member
- Sep 28, 2006
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Find me a Tivo that does what a HTPC does.... done?
The content is open for you to share. It can be transferred to your other devices and computers to be watched. Microsoft in conjunction with Cable Labs changed it to "copy freely" as of Windows 7 release.
I'd argue MC7 is one of the best playback solutions out there. You can use a variety of decoders you want, it has tons of plug-ins like MediaBrowser.. MyMovies.. Hulu, it's nicely integrated with easy remote support, etc. I have set it up for at least two dozen clients and they all like it far better than their Tivo.. especially the ones who I setup multi-room HTPC's with a central WHS server that all their recordings get automatically transferred to.
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kalrith
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sivart
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Granted I don't have a cable card, but I can tell no difference in playback on my WMC vs my HDTV's internal tuner. Explain what you mean by worst playback quality of any software?
It records my HD 1's and 0's and plays them back exactly as they were captured. You're statement is confusing :\
Upscaling in windows media center is horrible. Absolutely horrible.
Native playback is fine, but how often does your content match the output resolution?
WMC's poor upscaling might be fixable, but out of the box my blu-ray player did a way better job upscaling dvd's, and I use external programs to play all my content. WMC has been relegated to recording duties only (and for some reason it produces massive file sizes).
wiretap
Senior member
- Sep 28, 2006
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You don't have to use WMC's built in decoders nor media foundation to upscale.. You can make it look much better and tweak dozens of parameters if you wanted, using FFDshow.. which also now also includes DXVA support.
That that's not even an issue. I'm using some of the default media foundation decoders in 7MC and I've never had issues with upscaling. Everything looks amazing on my 1080p projection. Just remember you can't put detail into video that wasn't there to begin with. The last time I had upscaling issues was with XP MCE..
That that's not even an issue. I'm using some of the default media foundation decoders in 7MC and I've never had issues with upscaling. Everything looks amazing on my 1080p projection. Just remember you can't put detail into video that wasn't there to begin with. The last time I had upscaling issues was with XP MCE..
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even before DXVA i always did my playback on the CPU (unless it was a laptop) just so i could get my hands on all of FFDshow's decoding options. i think if you are technically inclined videophile who likes to have things calibrated just so, you really can't beat FFDshow especially if your library is neatly ripped to a NAS of MKVs.
when you compare PS3 to HTPC, and are willing to bring in tons of media serving apps into the comparison, it makes absolutely no sense to say all this is so much better because windows media sucks. absolutely nobody uses windows media's default decoders in a serious HTPC, let alone "media center" or whatever. everyone uses MPC-HC with FFDshow. and most people like the standard windows gui for fast access to any kind of data.
when you compare PS3 to HTPC, and are willing to bring in tons of media serving apps into the comparison, it makes absolutely no sense to say all this is so much better because windows media sucks. absolutely nobody uses windows media's default decoders in a serious HTPC, let alone "media center" or whatever. everyone uses MPC-HC with FFDshow. and most people like the standard windows gui for fast access to any kind of data.
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