HTPC Critique

[Googer]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
I would wait for a Core Duo MOBO to come out (I heard about ASUS coming for a while. Either they are already out, or it cant be too much longer) I dont know. But combined with a 7300 or 7600 GPU those things should allow for some fairly powerful and very cool HTPCs.

The PROPER i975 based motherboards have not been released yet, Intel says they won't be ready or avalable untill lat July. Currnent i975 motherboards (if I remember correctly) lack the proper voltage levels or some power related issue with the chipset.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Remedy

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: Remedy

For about the same price as the AMD 3500+ you can get a Dual Core Smithfield 930 for $267. Video encoding is the only benchmark the P4 (single/dual) can do better than an Athlon 64.

I had no idea the SF came in the 930 model form. As far as I know, they don't. The 900 series is a Presler. But the price is for a 930 is no where near the $186 and $196 price points seen below.
3500+ $196

3700+ $186

Inte Pentium-D 930 $317

Or did you mean an 830? 830 is $260 the lowest price I can find. Which is far from $186 for a single core Athlon64 listed.

You're comparing an Overclocked processor to a non overclocked processor for HTPC use as valid?

The 8xx series cost much more than the 9xx series of processors. The major differances are the 8xx are 90nm with less cache and the 9xx are 65nm more cache. I think my link was for the 840 or 830 in the two hundred dollar price range.

You said;

For about the same price as the AMD 3500+ you can get a Dual Core Smithfield 930 for $267.

Which is what I'm quoting you on. There is no such thing as a Smithfield 930 and the price of 3500+ is $160. No where near $267 price point. Which is what I'm correcting you on.

Thanks for the correction, it was a mistake; I meant to link to the 830.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
IMHO a $150+ CPU is overkill for HTPC duties.

A HTPC is a PC that will handle lots of video and that takes a lot of computational power. A processor that can handle those tasks well is the only one to consider.

 

[RossMAN]

Sorry no suggestions but your forum username rocks

 

[BUrassler]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
IMHO a $150+ CPU is overkill for HTPC duties.

A HTPC is a PC that will handle lots of video and that takes a lot of computational power. A processor that can handle those tasks well is the only one to consider.

Hey Googer, mind sharing some of your own set-up?

What you have under the hood? ....hardware/software/moniter(TV)

Thanks a lot


EDIT: Oh yea, and that really does look like a great HTPC case you linked to for $68! When I get one I may need a couple more PCI slots though, but 3 may cover it, we will see. I wish "HTPC" was a style selection at newegg. It would make searching sooo much easier for them!

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
IMHO a $150+ CPU is overkill for HTPC duties.

A HTPC is a PC that will handle lots of video and that takes a lot of computational power. A processor that can handle those tasks well is the only one to consider.

Hey Googer, mind sharing some of your own set-up?

What you have under the hood? ....hardware/software/moniter(TV)

Thanks a lot


EDIT: Oh yea, and that really does look like a great HTPC case you linked to for $68! When I get one I may need a couple more PCI slots though, but 3 may cover it, we will see. I wish "HTPC" was a style selection at newegg. It would make searching sooo much easier for them!

Most HTPC's do not need many PCI-slots. Most Gaming PC's do not even use more than 3 and rarely do they have more than 5 PCI slots filled.

Hey Googer, mind sharing some of your own set-up?

What you have under the hood? ....hardware/software/moniter(TV)

Thanks a lot

I do not do much video or rarely watch tv, so why do you want to know?

 

[BUrassler]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
IMHO a $150+ CPU is overkill for HTPC duties.

A HTPC is a PC that will handle lots of video and that takes a lot of computational power. A processor that can handle those tasks well is the only one to consider.

Hey Googer, mind sharing some of your own set-up?

What you have under the hood? ....hardware/software/moniter(TV)

Thanks a lot


EDIT: Oh yea, and that really does look like a great HTPC case you linked to for $68! When I get one I may need a couple more PCI slots though, but 3 may cover it, we will see. I wish "HTPC" was a style selection at newegg. It would make searching sooo much easier for them!

Most HTPC's do not need many PCI-slots. Most Gaming PC's do not even use more than 3 and rarely do they have more than 5 PCI slots filled.

Hey Googer, mind sharing some of your own set-up?

What you have under the hood? ....hardware/software/moniter(TV)

Thanks a lot

I do not do much video or rarely watch tv, so why do you want to know?

Yea, my current "all around rig" uses 4: video, sound, tv tuner, wifi.

Nothing in particular, just curious. If no TV or video, what are you using it for?

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: BUrassler

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
IMHO a $150+ CPU is overkill for HTPC duties.

A HTPC is a PC that will handle lots of video and that takes a lot of computational power. A processor that can handle those tasks well is the only one to consider.

Hey Googer, mind sharing some of your own set-up?

What you have under the hood? ....hardware/software/moniter(TV)

Thanks a lot


EDIT: Oh yea, and that really does look like a great HTPC case you linked to for $68! When I get one I may need a couple more PCI slots though, but 3 may cover it, we will see. I wish "HTPC" was a style selection at newegg. It would make searching sooo much easier for them!

Most HTPC's do not need many PCI-slots. Most Gaming PC's do not even use more than 3 and rarely do they have more than 5 PCI slots filled.

Hey Googer, mind sharing some of your own set-up?

What you have under the hood? ....hardware/software/moniter(TV)

Thanks a lot

I do not do much video or rarely watch tv, so why do you want to know?

Yea, my current "all around rig" uses 4: video, sound, tv tuner, wifi.

Nothing in particular, just curious. If no TV or video, what are you using it for?

Internet, Old Games, and miscellaneous tasks.

 

[Raduque]

An HTPC can use all of it's PCI slots, depending on how many tuners you want (soundcard, 2xDual Tuners, HD tuner? There's 4).

Googer, I still don't think ATIs AIW cards are MCE-compatible... Do they have hardware mpeg encoders yet?

DVD upscaling: My HTPC is a SocketA XP2500+, 1gb ddr400 and ATI 9700Pro. It handles DVD upscaling in MCE to 1080i just fine. How well it would work in ffdshow, I don't know, as DVDs look great, and more then good enough for me, upscaled in MCE using VRM9.

For a soundcard, I would get something with DD-Live/DTS-Connect. Let it pass through DD/DTS and 2-channel PCM, and encode WMV8/9 5.1 and divx 5.1 to DD/DTS in real time for true surround sound from WMVHD and Xvid/Divx movies. Also works for games, but you'll only get EAX2.0.

Oh, and WindowsMCE will install and run fine without a TV tuner. You just can't use any of the TV features. if you try, it complains about not finding a tuner.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Remedy

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
IMHO a $150+ CPU is overkill for HTPC duties.

While you maybe correct about an HTPC. The idea of expanding to a MediaCenter PC with gaming on a HD DLP screen may push the processor a bit further beyond that of HTPC duties for a Sempron.

But, An Athlon64 3000+ is only $106 in socket 939 format.

That's a good price.

Originally posted by: Googer
A HTPC is a PC that will handle lots of video and that takes a lot of computational power. A processor that can handle those tasks well is the only one to consider.

Modern GPUs hardware accelerate decoding of the standard 18 ATSC formats and the newer, much more stressful HD video formats of WMV HD and H.264, with the proper software suites. The 7300GS *$70 card* can even handle H.264 1080p. ATI's AVIVO can encode some formats as much as 5 times faster than a fast CPU.

I can assure you the $106 3000+ Remedy linked, when overclocked, will easily meet my HTPC needs. Heck, my modded XBOX "nvidia APU real time DD 5.1 goodness * can do everything but the new HD formats, so I have it on the 36" CRT in the master bedroom, just need HD capability for the 57" in the living room. I can always do the encoding on my X2 system if need be. My point is, HTPC needs are individual. Raduque is happy with a 2500+ and 9700pro for his current needs :beer:

I'd like to reiterate to the OP, that you need to make certain the person the build is for, understands that they will require another solution later with HDCP compliance, or be stuck watching the new HD-DVDs@75% reduced res.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Remedy

For about the same price as the AMD 3500+ you can get a Dual Core Smithfield 930 for $267. Video encoding is the only benchmark the P4 (single/dual) can do better than an Athlon 64.

I had no idea the SF came in the 930 model form. As far as I know, they don't. The 900 series is a Presler. But the price is for a 930 is no where near the $186 and $196 price points seen below.
3500+ $196

3700+ $186

Inte Pentium-D 930 $317

Or did you mean an 830? 830 is $260 the lowest price I can find. Which is far from $186 for a single core Athlon64 listed.

You're comparing an Overclocked processor to a non overclocked processor for HTPC use as valid?

AVIVO is also starting to show some impressive video encoding capabilities too, and PureVideo may follow. I intend to use a cheap skt754 Sempr0n for the platform and overclock, let the GPU handle the encoding&decoding chores. A sempr0n@2.3ghz+ is a decent gamer too.

But I think he wants it here and now and new 875 boards that are Conroe/VIIV compatable will be in the $200+ range when they are released.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Raduque
An HTPC can use all of it's PCI slots, depending on how many tuners you want (soundcard, 2xDual Tuners, HD tuner? There's 4).

Googer, I still don't think ATIs AIW cards are MCE-compatible... Do they have hardware mpeg encoders yet?

DVD upscaling: My HTPC is a SocketA XP2500+, 1gb ddr400 and ATI 9700Pro. It handles DVD upscaling in MCE to 1080i just fine. How well it would work in ffdshow, I don't know, as DVDs look great, and more then good enough for me, upscaled in MCE using VRM9.

For a soundcard, I would get something with DD-Live/DTS-Connect. Let it pass through DD/DTS and 2-channel PCM, and encode WMV8/9 5.1 and divx 5.1 to DD/DTS in real time for true surround sound from WMVHD and Xvid/Divx movies. Also works for games, but you'll only get EAX2.0.

Oh, and WindowsMCE will install and run fine without a TV tuner. You just can't use any of the TV features. if you try, it complains about not finding a tuner.

I agree with on the Audio Issue.

ATI is showng full support on their website for the X1900xt on Windows Media Center 2005. There is no known reason why it would not work.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Remedy

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
IMHO a $150+ CPU is overkill for HTPC duties.

While you maybe correct about an HTPC. The idea of expanding to a MediaCenter PC with gaming on a HD DLP screen may push the processor a bit further beyond that of HTPC duties for a Sempron.

But, An Athlon64 3000+ is only $106 in socket 939 format.

That's a good price.

Originally posted by: Googer
A HTPC is a PC that will handle lots of video and that takes a lot of computational power. A processor that can handle those tasks well is the only one to consider.

Modern GPUs hardware accelerate decoding of the standard 18 ATSC formats and the newer, much more stressful HD video formats of WMV HD and H.264, with the proper software suites. The 7300GS *$70 card* can even handle H.264 1080p. ATI's AVIVO can encode some formats as much as 5 times faster than a fast CPU.

I can assure you the $106 3000+ Remedy linked, when overclocked, will easily meet my HTPC needs. Heck, my modded XBOX "nvidia APU real time DD 5.1 goodness * can do everything but the new HD formats, so I have it on the 36" CRT in the master bedroom, just need HD capability for the 57" in the living room. I can always do the encoding on my X2 system if need be. My point is, HTPC needs are individual. Raduque is happy with a 2500+ and 9700pro for his current needs :beer:

I'd like to reiterate to the OP, that you need to make certain the person the build is for, understands that they will require another solution later with HDCP compliance, or be stuck watching the new HD-DVDs@75% reduced res.

A 3000+ is fine for NTSC standard TV but when Running 1080P you may want to consider a CPU that was built with a Mulit-Media Architecture in mind. Intel Designed Netburst to run video. And overclocking your CPU can lead to the processor generating errors that can be written to the HDD that can in turn cause corruption of whole Video Files and as a result of that one corrupt 0 or 1 will create system instability or poor quality playback.

 

[Googer]

I think this article should settle the debate on what processor to use. Use the Pentium D 805 (or better) with a Conroe (viiv) ready motherboard and it will make for a smooth transisiton and he will also have a nice upgrade path. The 805 can be found for $105-140.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=8

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...116001&ATT=19-116-001&CMP=OTC-d3alt1me

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Googer
I think this article should settle the debate on what processor to use. Use the Pentium D 805 (or better) with a Conroe (viiv) ready motherboard and it will make for a smooth transisiton and he will also have a nice upgrade path. The 805 can be found for $105-140.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=8

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...116001&ATT=19-116-001&CMP=OTC-d3alt1me

I caught that article too, and agree it is a good choice for the build in question. Just have to invest in excellent aftermarket cooling, particularly if going for a small footprint HTPC because as Anand states- The picture doesn't get any prettier under full load. If you're expecting the Pentium D 805 to be a cool running, quiet chip, you're going to be sorely disappointed

For myself, the power consumption difference is a factor, as my HTPC will run 24/7 BOINC, and will see that 3-4yrs service, factor in the aftermarket cooling I'd need for the 805 and there is no point in my not spending the money upfront for another X2. Here in Florida, power cost are on the rise from FPL, always getting approval to increase rates due to Hurricanes impact on the infrastructure, ect. So, his estimate of annual costs definitely is on the low side in my case. Of course a stock speed Sempr0n will do the job for me, as the GPU will do most the work, even for 1080p

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Googer
I think this article should settle the debate on what processor to use. Use the Pentium D 805 (or better) with a Conroe (viiv) ready motherboard and it will make for a smooth transisiton and he will also have a nice upgrade path. The 805 can be found for $105-140.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2736&p=8

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...116001&ATT=19-116-001&CMP=OTC-d3alt1me

I caught that article too, and agree it is a good choice for the build in question. Just have to invest in excellent aftermarket cooling, particularly if going for a small footprint HTPC because as Anand states- The picture doesn't get any prettier under full load. If you're expecting the Pentium D 805 to be a cool running, quiet chip, you're going to be sorely disappointed

For myself, the power consumption difference is a factor, as my HTPC will run 24/7 BOINC, and will see that 3-4yrs service, factor in the aftermarket cooling I'd need for the 805 and there is no point in my not spending the money upfront for another X2. Here in Florida, power cost are on the rise from FPL, always getting approval to increase rates due to Hurricanes impact on the infrastructure, ect. So, his estimate of annual costs definitely is on the low side in my case. Of course a stock speed Sempr0n will do the job for me, as the GPU will do most the work, even for 1080p

Then use a Zalman cooler with a 120mm fan is not very loud and will get the job done. So if the temperature rises above 120°F I would not sweat it. P4's can take a little bit of heat punishment, their built in thermal protection will keep them safe should things start to get hot. At 150°F I would start to worry, 120°F is not much of a concern.