HTPC - CPU? Mobo?

[coolVariable]

I am considering upgrading my media center HTPC and am looking at various options.

I currently use an old Dell Dimension 4700:
Pentium 4 2.4GHz
3GB RAM
HDDs: 200GB + 400GB + 750GB
Graphics: Radeon 3650 512MB
TV Tuner: AverMedia UltraTV 1500 MCE + HD Homerun

I have found a couple of Micro ATX cases that look nice, so I am considering upgrading if the upgrade is not too expensive ... maybe $120-$180 for CPU, mobo, RAM? I am planning on keeping the graphics card and the tv tuner.
It's been years since I built my last PC/server/desktop, so I am looking for some input:

CPU:
What would be a good CPU?
Powerful but still energy efficient and cool?
64bit

Motherboard:
Good matching motherboard?
Should have 1x PATA (DVD drive), ideally more than 2x SATA, lots of USB in the back and for the front, 8+ GB RAM, ... ?

Is it worth the upgrade?
What are some good CPU/mobo combinations?

 

[Falloutboy]

tbh just get a budget athlon am2 dual core and slap it in a 780G based board. throw on 2-4 gb of ram (I have 2gb on my HTPC which is sufficent I find)

 

[Denithor]

AMD
X2 4850e (2.6GHz, 45W) $58.50
Biostar A780G M2+ SE $50AR (supports PhII for future upgrade)

Intel
e5200 (2.5GHz, 65W) $80
Foxconn G43MX-K $63AR (supports Q9550 for future upgrade)

Add the G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2-800 kit ($40) to either of these and you're good to go.

 

[coolVariable]

Thanks for the suggestions. they were really helpful.
What do you think about the below?

AMD
X2 4850e (2.6GHz, 45W) $58.50
ASRock A780FullDisplayPort AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard $69.99

Intel
Intel Pentium E2200 Allendale (2.2GHz 65W) $69.99
ASRock P43Twins1600 LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard $79.99


Intel or AMD? Intel is ~$10 more.

Really not sure which case I should get.
nMEDIAPC Black Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 5000B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case $89.99 ???
300W MicroATX 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply $42.99

 

[Viditor]

arrrgh...n/m

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I'd go with the AMD setup. CPU performance would be the same, yet you can use the onboard video of the AMD board to drastically reduce power consumption and heat.

 

[tno]

I think the E2200 will do you just fine, I would advocate for a better mobo though, you can really get a lot of miles out of some of the modern chipsets. Of note, the Asus P5E-VM HDMI is incredibly capable and will let you undervolt and underclock that proc so you get the most energy savings (quiet) while still maintaining the performance necessary for HD output. You can find it for about $90 open box at the Egg. I would also actually advocate to spend a few more dollars and move up to the E5200 available for just $5 more than the E2200. Add just 2gigs of cheap ram and you will have a capable and cool system. Check out this review at Silent PC Review for some information on that board and for tips on how to run it at its coolest. Good luck!

tno

Originally posted by: coolVariable
Thanks for the suggestions. they were really helpful.
What do you think about the below?

AMD
X2 4850e (2.6GHz, 45W) $58.50
ASRock A780FullDisplayPort AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard $69.99

Intel
Intel Pentium E2200 Allendale (2.2GHz 65W) $69.99
ASRock P43Twins1600 LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard $79.99


Intel or AMD? Intel is ~$10 more.

Really not sure which case I should get.
nMEDIAPC Black Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 5000B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case $89.99 ???
300W MicroATX 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply $42.99

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
Thanks for the suggestions. they were really helpful.
What do you think about the below?

AMD
X2 4850e (2.6GHz, 45W) $58.50
ASRock A780FullDisplayPort AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard $69.99

Sure, that's a nice motherboard also. But I think the 4850e just dropped in price yesterday, it's now only $54.

Intel
Intel Pentium E2200 Allendale (2.2GHz 65W) $69.99
ASRock P43Twins1600 LGA 775 Intel P43 ATX Intel Motherboard $79.99

Just say no to those older 1MB chips. The e5200 is going to have considerably better performance and will actually use less power & run cooler at higher speeds. And, with the price drops, it's now only $75. The ASRock board looks ok although it costs more - if you're willing to spend just a bit more the Gigabyte EG43M-S2H ($85AR) comes with HDMI & optical audio out.

Intel or AMD? Intel is ~$10 more.

Intel will provide faster performance at a higher price. You're looking at a $35 increase for the e5200+S2H, which is worth it if your stereo receiver has optical input.

Really not sure which case I should get.
nMEDIAPC Black Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 5000B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case $89.99 ???
300W MicroATX 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply $42.99

If you don't plan to ever add a video card to your system that case should work. There are cheaper/better ones though, like this In Win (with 300W PSU) for $55 that features an 80mm fan in the side for exhaust (much quieter than the 2x60mm fans in the nMEDIAPC you linked). The PSU you found looks great, at least as far as the small mATX PSUs go.

Of course, there are a couple of other options to consider as well.
In Win BK623 $30 - no PSU (small but tall enough for full-height cards)
In Win BK636 $54 - 300W PSU(same as above, different faceplate)
I use a case like these for my HTPC and it's quite nice. A little tight but once you get it put together everything fits and there's room for full-height cards (GPU, TV tuner, etc).

Apevia Qpack $60AR - 420W PSU
This one is a bit bigger, check dimensions to make sure it fits where you want it to go. The real advantage here is that this case uses a standard ATX PSU (so you can get a high quality model instead of settling for a low-power mATX model). Again, this case is tall enough for full-height cards which may be a factor in your build at some point.

 

[coolVariable]

Wow. Thanks guys for all the help.

I was originally planning on re-using the Radeon 3650 512MB as a graphics card.
You don't think I need it with the AMD board? Mmmh. That would be another point in favor of the AMD setup.
I will definitely need to use the PCI TV Tuner AverMedia UltraTV 1500 MCE in the new build for TV-watching.

Re: intel - I get the point about the e5200 vs. e2200. I do think the ASRock is a better board though vs. the S2H. Both have optical audio. I guess the ASRock has no onboard video (so I would HAVE to use my old graphics card) ... although I do see a port in the imagethat looks like HDMI.

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: coolVariable
Really not sure which case I should get.
nMEDIAPC Black Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 5000B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case $89.99 ???
300W MicroATX 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply $42.99

If you don't plan to ever add a video card to your system that case should work. There are cheaper/better ones though, like this In Win (with 300W PSU) for $55 that features an 80mm fan in the side for exhaust (much quieter than the 2x60mm fans in the nMEDIAPC you linked). The PSU you found looks great, at least as far as the small mATX PSUs go.

Of course, there are a couple of other options to consider as well.
In Win BK623 $30 - no PSU (small but tall enough for full-height cards)
In Win BK636 $54 - 300W PSU(same as above, different faceplate)
I use a case like these for my HTPC and it's quite nice. A little tight but once you get it put together everything fits and there's room for full-height cards (GPU, TV tuner, etc).

Apevia Qpack $60AR - 420W PSU
This one is a bit bigger, check dimensions to make sure it fits where you want it to go. The real advantage here is that this case uses a standard ATX PSU (so you can get a high quality model instead of settling for a low-power mATX model). Again, this case is tall enough for full-height cards which may be a factor in your build at some point.

You don't think the nMedia case is big enough to support PCI cards? that case is f****ing huge. How can I tell?
I definitely do not want to go with a desktop tower. (One of the reasons for the upgrade. My Dimension 4700 case just does not look very pretty in the living room.)

What am I looking for in a case:
1.) runs cool and quiet!!
2.) is small (I need to use normal PCI cards, IDE DVD drive, 3 HDDs [maybe more in the future])
3.) looks stylish and is HTPC formfactor (piano black?)
4.) a card reader in the front would be nice
5.) price ;-)

 

[RaptureMe]

Go the amd route I'd say a nice AM2+ x2 5050e and a Zotac itx 8200 mobo or Biostar 780g Matx for the win.
NO INTEL cpu cant beat a amd 5050e par performance and cost no matter what anyone tells you.
If they do tell you different they are missleading you.
5050e runs at 2.6Ghz plus it only uses 45w of power usage.
All intel cpu's use 65w all the way up to 138w which is going to cost you big time in the end in your electric bill.
Sure you can get a C2D or C2Q which will beat the pants off a amd cpu hands down but you are going to pay a premium for name sake only.
Why not pay 1/4 of the cost and go amd when it will do what you want it for am I right or am I right??
Dont waist your time or money with a e2200 or lower models when 5050e is cheaper, cooler temp wise, uses less power, and would rape those intel cpus clock for clock all day long 24/7.
The only way they would even come close to beating amd is overclocking then again you have to take into account when you overclock it takes more power to run those cpus at a higher clock rate via raising the Voltages in bios to stablize higher clock settings..
Well enough of my ramblings hope I helped..

 

[rudder]

If you want to think about sizing down further, the ZOTAC NF630I is a decent board in the ITX form factor ($50 AR). I am putting together an server/htpc based on that mobo since i accidentely ended up with two. I am pairing it with a celeron 430 conroe-L which is a 35 watt cpu. It has 2 memory slots but you would be hard pressed to get 8 gigs on it... but 4 is overkill anyway.

Another limitation is it only has 1 pci-e slot. But it has onboard everything. The WIFI version is only about $20 more.


I have it stuffed in this case.. Well not really stuffed. The case can take a full size 5.25" drive but I have two HD's in it.

 

[Denithor]

Wow - overlooked that optical out on the ASRock G43 board, that makes it even better.

If the board doesn't have HDMI out - either use your GPU or just buy a DVI/HDMI adapter.

Note - G43 & 780G motherboards can both handle "typical" HTPC duties - HD decoding & such. No need for a separate GPU on these boards, as long as you don't intend to game. If you plan to game - at all - you're going to need a discrete GPU.

Which gets into my second topic - the cases. Yes, the nMEDIAPC is big. But it isn't tall. Look at the dimensions & compare to those In Win BK cases I linked. Or just look at the photos of the back. Notice how the PCI slots halt abruptly about even with the top of the backplate? That's not enough height for standard PCI/PCIe cards...therefore the further recommendations.

"Don't want to go with a desktop tower" - look at those In Win BK cases again. Even if the pictures show them standing upright, they are actually designed to lay down on their side (note the orientation of the 5.25" bay) and have rubber pads on the side/bottom. Like I said, I have one of those and they work great for HTPC. I have an e7300/4GB/9600GT and it's silent (the loudest part is the Blu-ray player spinning disks). I should also note it runs nice and cool even with stock cooling. Plus, with that CPU/RAM/GPU it's actually fast enough for moderate gaming. On the big screen, baby!

If you want/need to use standard PCI/PCIe cards you've gotta look carefully at dimensions or photos to find full-height cases. You're going to have a hard time though finding a case that will hold 3HDDs + a DVDRW.

RaptureMe needs to quit smoking crack. Power consumption charts. Even at 2.6GHz the 5050e's certainly not going to beat the e5200 - in anything - except price. The days of the "hot power-hungry" Intel chips are over - these 45nm chips suck down less power than AMD's 65nm chips. Not to mention the e5200 should be able to hit 3GHz or faster without even a voltage bump.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: rudder
If you want to think about sizing down further, the ZOTAC NF630I is a decent board in the ITX form factor ($50 AR). I am putting together an server/htpc based on that mobo since i accidentely ended up with two. I am pairing it with a celeron 430 conroe-L which is a 35 watt cpu. It has 2 memory slots but you would be hard pressed to get 8 gigs on it... but 4 is overkill anyway.

Another limitation is it only has 1 pci-e slot. But it has onboard everything. The WIFI version is only about $20 more.


I have it stuffed in this case.. Well not really stuffed. The case can take a full size 5.25" drive but I have two HD's in it.

Can this case take a full sized PCI card?

Edit: Nevermind. The affordable (sub $150) Mini-ITX boards only have PCI Express x1 slots. I want to keep my TV Tuner card which is PCI.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: Denithor
Wow - overlooked that optical out on the ASRock G43 board, that makes it even better.

If the board doesn't have HDMI out - either use your GPU or just buy a DVI/HDMI adapter.

Note - G43 & 780G motherboards can both handle "typical" HTPC duties - HD decoding & such. No need for a separate GPU on these boards, as long as you don't intend to game. If you plan to game - at all - you're going to need a discrete GPU.

Which gets into my second topic - the cases. Yes, the nMEDIAPC is big. But it isn't tall. Look at the dimensions & compare to those In Win BK cases I linked. Or just look at the photos of the back. Notice how the PCI slots halt abruptly about even with the top of the backplate? That's not enough height for standard PCI/PCIe cards...therefore the further recommendations.

"Don't want to go with a desktop tower" - look at those In Win BK cases again. Even if the pictures show them standing upright, they are actually designed to lay down on their side (note the orientation of the 5.25" bay) and have rubber pads on the side/bottom. Like I said, I have one of those and they work great for HTPC. I have an e7300/4GB/9600GT and it's silent (the loudest part is the Blu-ray player spinning disks). I should also note it runs nice and cool even with stock cooling. Plus, with that CPU/RAM/GPU it's actually fast enough for moderate gaming. On the big screen, baby!

If you want/need to use standard PCI/PCIe cards you've gotta look carefully at dimensions or photos to find full-height cases. You're going to have a hard time though finding a case that will hold 3HDDs + a DVDRW.

RaptureMe needs to quit smoking crack. Power consumption charts. And he's a bit off elsewhere also, X2 5050e runs at 2.7GHz stock, not 2.6GHz. And even at 2.7GHz it's certainly not going to beat the e5200 - in anything - except price. The days of the "hot power-hungry" Intel chips are over - these 45nm chips suck down less power than AMD's 65nm chips. Not to mention the e5200 should be able to hit 3GHz or faster without even a voltage bump.

I think the Asrock G43 actually has NO onboard graphics at all: ASRock

I will check the cases. Sucks that you cannot trust the descriptions. At another shop it says that it takes full size PCI cards ...

Damn. I would be willing to pull the trigger on each of the suggested CPU/mobo combos but just can't really find a case that I like and that supports all the stuff.

 

[Denithor]

The ASRock most certainly does have integrated GPU: it's a G43 chipset, by definition it does. Take a look at the photo at newegg, facing the rear panel - see the little blue VGA plug next to the keyboard/mouse ports?

Now, that Gigabyte I pointed out earlier has VGA, DVI and HDMI outputs directly from the board. So you don't need a GPU for typical HTPC duties if you don't want one (so lower power draw, cooler, quieter system).



Finally, I have to admit I made a mistake looking at that nMEDIAPC case you picked out. I didn't look closely enough at it (or I'm plain dumb). Reading some more tonight, it will support full-height PCI cards. And (even better) it uses a standard ATX PSU so you don't have to mess with those little/expensive mATX units.

Get this: Antec EA380 For $35 that's a great PSU at a very nice price.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: Denithor
The ASRock most certainly does have integrated GPU: it's a G43 chipset, by definition it does. Take a look at the photo at newegg, facing the rear panel - see the little blue VGA plug next to the keyboard/mouse ports?

Now, that Gigabyte I pointed out earlier has VGA, DVI and HDMI outputs directly from the board. So you don't need a GPU for typical HTPC duties if you don't want one (so lower power draw, cooler, quieter system).



Finally, I have to admit I made a mistake looking at that nMEDIAPC case you picked out. I didn't look closely enough at it (or I'm plain dumb). Reading some more tonight, it will support full-height PCI cards. And (even better) it uses a standard ATX PSU so you don't have to mess with those little/expensive mATX units.

Get this: Antec EA380 For $35 that's a great PSU at a very nice price.

The ASRock has the P43 chipset which doesn't have integrated graphics.
The photo doesn't have any graphics ports ... only the red port (next to the optical audio out, 4th from the left) could be HDMI ... but apparently is not.

What's the benefit of an ATX PSU vs. mATX PSU (besides price)?
Isn't ATX bigger?
Silence and low power consumptions are IMO key for this HTCP build.

Glad about the nMedia case ... although I like the Apevia Qpack $60AR case you suggested. I noticed that the nMedia case would limit the number of expansion cards I could use on the intel board. I really like how many PCI/PCIe slots it has.
Mmmmmmhhhh.

 

[Denithor]

Yep - here's the ASRock G43 I was talking about. But it doesn't have optical output.

I think the best board is still going to be the Gigabyte, with VGA/DVI/HDMI + optical out for your receiver.

The P43 ASRock is an ATX board so it won't fit into that case you picked out. You've got to use a mATX board so you're limited to G31/G43/G45 or the new nVidia Geforce 9300/9400 boards. All of which feature integrated GPU that's capable of Blu-ray decoding & other typical HTPC duties.

PSU - there is just a much better selection of ATX powersupplies available. It's a bigger format so they can use larger/more powerful components. That doesn't mean louder though - if anything these tend to be quieter as they have larger fans that spin slower.

Regarding the number of PCI slots - that's the one drawback of mATX boards. They typically max at 1 PCIe and 2 PCI slots, simply due to space constraints. And if you choose either the Qpack or the nMEDIAPC case you've gotta use an mATX board.

 

[coolVariable]

Do the ATX powersupplies use more power?
E.g. does a 300W powersupply actually draw 300W all the time or is it simply UP TO 300w?

If I go with an mATX case, I think I might be glad for the additionally room of a mATX powersupply, no?


I have been doing some research and it "seems" as if the intel e5200 actually uses less power than the 4850e (even accounting for 10%+/- based on components):
intel e5200 power usage
AMD 4850e power usage

 

[pm]

If you want my advice, watch the system power carefully - and don't go too crazy on the CPU. A $30 videocard can decode Blu-ray just fine.

I have a Pentium M 1.7GHz and a Radeon 4350 ($30 at Newegg) and it's fine for Blu-ray, recording and watching 1080i HD, and iTunes HD. And it's less than 55W total system power.

As far as power supplies, that's the max power - although larger power supplies are less efficient at dealing with small loads. So you want to choose a power supply close to what you will be using.

 

[s44]

Remember, there's HDMI and HDMI.

For serious HTPC use you'll want surround PCM audio over HDMI as well, which integrated ATI (and discrete ATI before the 4XXX series) can't do. Nvidia 8200/8300/9300/9400 is a better choice. Of course, there's still a downsampling (to CD quality) issue, but until Nvidia/ATI introduce a discrete card with proper Protected Audio Path implementation and force the software companies to support it (or until the latter support the S3 Chrome 530 GT, which already does PAP), you might as well have the best on-board solution.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
I have been doing some research and it "seems" as if the intel e5200 actually uses less power than the 4850e (even accounting for 10%+/- based on components):
intel e5200 power usage
AMD 4850e power usage

Wow! My current HTPC (P4 2.6Ghz supposedly only uses between 80W and 140W depending on load).
Comparing that with the power draw for the AMD/intel solution above, I currently save $50-$100 per year.
I thought the new chips are MORE power efficient (not the reverse).

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
Do the ATX powersupplies use more power?
E.g. does a 300W powersupply actually draw 300W all the time or is it simply UP TO 300w?

If I go with an mATX case, I think I might be glad for the additionally room of a mATX powersupply, no?


I have been doing some research and it "seems" as if the intel e5200 actually uses less power than the 4850e (even accounting for 10%+/- based on components):
intel e5200 power usage
AMD 4850e power usage

Depends on the power supply. You need to check efficiency ratings. A 300W power supply does not draw 300W constantly as it depends on components and load. So you are correct it supposed to go up to 300W. But there is overhead. If you buy a cheap power supply it may be 70% efficient. The good ones are above 80%

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: coolVariable
Wow! My current HTPC (P4 2.6Ghz supposedly only uses between 80W and 140W depending on load).
Comparing that with the power draw for the AMD/intel solution above, I currently save $50-$100 per year.
I thought the new chips are MORE power efficient (not the reverse).

They are, but keep two things in mind here.

1) We're talking efficiency, not necessarily total power consumption. Compare the TDP & Speedower ratios for the Pentium 4 and C2D processors. And that chart is pretty misleading, note they are comparing raw clockspeed versus max power consumption (newer chips get a lot more work done per cycle than the older generations so clockspeed isn't a good measure for comparison - for example, the e6300 has half the speed/cache of the P4D 965 EE but managed to beat it in many benchmarks).

2) In the case of the e5200 benchmarks, the system includes a 4870 video card. Which is a power-hungry beast. Subtract that out and the consumption is actually quite low.

HTPC system power consumption comparison
Take a look here. The Intel systems (on G35/G45 + GeForce chipsets) feature a 95W Q9300 while the AMD systems (on 780G & 790GX) have a Phenom X4 9950. No video cards to clutter up the picture. At idle the Intel systems are around 60-70W total consumption and under load they run around 110W. And keep in mind, that's with a 95W quad, compared to the 65W dual you're going to be using.

 

[coolVariable]

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: coolVariable
Wow! My current HTPC (P4 2.6Ghz supposedly only uses between 80W and 140W depending on load).
Comparing that with the power draw for the AMD/intel solution above, I currently save $50-$100 per year.
I thought the new chips are MORE power efficient (not the reverse).

They are, but keep two things in mind here.

1) We're talking efficiency, not necessarily total power consumption. Compare the TDP & Speedower ratios for the Pentium 4 and C2D processors. And that chart is pretty misleading, note they are comparing raw clockspeed versus max power consumption (newer chips get a lot more work done per cycle than the older generations so clockspeed isn't a good measure for comparison - for example, the e6300 has half the speed/cache of the P4D 965 EE but managed to beat it in many benchmarks).

2) In the case of the e5200 benchmarks, the system includes a 4870 video card. Which is a power-hungry beast. Subtract that out and the consumption is actually quite low.

HTPC system power consumption comparison
Take a look here. The Intel systems (on G35/G45 + GeForce chipsets) feature a 95W Q9300 while the AMD systems (on 780G & 790GX) have a Phenom X4 9950. No video cards to clutter up the picture. At idle the Intel systems are around 60-70W total consumption and under load they run around 110W. And keep in mind, that's with a 95W quad, compared to the 65W dual you're going to be using.

I get the efficiency factor (more work in less time) but I am curious if that really applies in a HTPC where the primary workload is recording and playing TV ... which is driven by the length of the program. A benefit of a newer CPU would be better CPU power management: e.g. better adaptation to the amount of the workload (I think the P4 cannot step down the clock, etc.).

Regardless. I essentially seem to have 4 options:
1. Go with the intel e5200 and some IGP solution
2. Go with the intel e5200 and my HD 3650 GPU
3. Go with the AMD 4850e and some IGP solution
4. Go with the AMD 4850e and my HD 3650 GPU

I understand that #1 and #3 use the least amount of energy.
But both will probably be weaker graphics wise (the only game I currently have on the HTPC is Lego Star Wars) and in my experience the intel IGP solutions svck.

I don't think this PC needs to be the most powerful workhorse.
I want to find a nice balance between speed, power consumption and heat (silence).

 

[Denithor]

Well, let's get the whole power consumption thing out of the way.

I'm not sure which "Pentium 4 2.4GHz" processor you have so I will list examples of the various models that were produced.

Northwood - 2.4GHz - 400MHz fsb - 512k cache - 60W
Northwood - 2.4GHz - 533MHz fsb - 512k cache - 60W
Northwood - 2.4GHz - 800MHz fsb - 512k cache - 66W
Prescott - 2.4GHz - 533MHz fsb - 1MB cache - 89W

So for single-core chips clocked at 2.4GHz you're looking at anywhere from 60W to 89W depending on which model you've got, for the chip alone. So we can make a direct comparison to today's chips: the X2 4850e and e5200 are both dual-core chips clocked at 2.5GHz with TDP of 45W and 65W respectively.

From all the testing I've seen, the AMD chips tend to run close to their TDP while Intel chips run well below it (so these chips may both actually consume 40W, for example). This is because AMD rates their chips close to where they typically run while Intel rates them higher for some reason. (Example: Intel rates the e8600 [3.33GHz, 6MB cache, 333FSB] for the same 65W TDP as the e5200 [2.5GHz, 2MB cache, 266FSB] - if you can figure out how that works you're smarter than me.)

So go ahead and use that 3650 to boost your graphics performance - you'll still probably run cooler & quieter than your current P4 system, use the same or less energy and get a crapload more work done in the same amount of time (video encoding, etc).