HTC Surround Impressions

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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My new Surround finally arrived today, and I picked it just before work (I live in the same town as my parents, but they have a porch that is setback from the street, whereas i do not) and activated it once I got to work, there is no music on it since I haven't hooked it up to Zune yet, but this is what i have so far.

My previous phone is/was an iPhone 1G running iOS 3.1.3, and I prefer OS X and iTunes, but I won't get to that until I actually hook this sucker up to Zune.

So, first thoughts (these are kind of going to be all over the place at first, bear with me);
It feels really good in my hand. It is a little bit taller and thicker than the iPhone but the same width roughly, so it still fits in my hand well, the volume rocker is on the upper right, which I thought would bug me, but I really don't mind it at all. The power button doesn't protrude as much as the iPhone's, and since that is the only way to unlock it (as opposed to the home button alternative on the iPhone) it really wish it was better. It is too easy to press and almost flush to the phone, so it just feels off.

The kickstand/speaker is nice, but since I am at work I haven't had a chance to play with the speaker much, though the kickstand is pretty good when paired with Alarm Clock w/ Weather (app on the Marketplace), since that actually does support landscape.

The lack of landscape support is bothersome, so much of the iPhone supported it, that to have it taken away where i used it the most (browser) really blows. The software keyboard is really good though, but I am not totally used to it yet. There were times that I was flying on it, typing just as fast as I ever could on the iPhone, but then there were other times where every other letter was wrong and I couldn't find my ass with a map.

As a paradigm shift, the hardware back button is interesting. It was nice to be on the browser looking at stuff, accepting and responding to an incoming text, and then hitting back to jump right back to the browser. It felt quicker than hitting the home button, then Safari.

A lot of my favorable impressions almost certainly have to do with the hardware differences. My iPhone was a first gen. This thing is so much faster, with 4x the RAM, in a lot of ways it isn't a fair comparison. However, it is a testiment to iOS that even the first gen could still handle certain tasks incredibly well. It is still the best, easiest to use software keyboard that I have ever encountered, hindered only slightly by its slow speed. But if you put an iPhone 4 in my hands, i would fly on the soft keyboard.

The fact that I finally have 3G is also pretty awesome, but you guys are already all up on that, so whatever.

Bing Maps aren't too bad, I like the fact that it gives you landmarks in addition to just street names (turn left at Turner St. Citgo Station). That is pretty nice.

I haven't played with the browser much, but it feels pretty fast, and scrolling/zooming are crazy responsive.

I noticed a weird issue. If using either my work computer or my laptop's USB to charge the phone, the bottom got really hot which also may have contributed to crazy keyboard issues. Phantom presses, the backspace inserting letters, and all kinds of kooky things. Since hooking it up to the provided charger, it seems to have cooled down (literally) and the keyboard is back to normal. YMMV, but that is something you might want to keep in mind.

The screen on this thing is great. I mean, really really great. When I was comparing my old phone to it in the store, the guy there kept telling me to compare it to the Focus, because it has the (S?)AMOLED display. And I told him that I already knew that the Focus had a great display, but I was planning on getting the Surround for $0.01 anyway and didn't want the Focus to throw off the experiment.

The colors are about the same to my eyes (slightly colorblind), but the increased res that little bit extra screen size (mostly the res) is very nice. Pictures are pretty nice on it, a little bit nicer than on my iPhone.

Haven't actually made any calls on it yet... just showing how little I actually use phones as phones anymore, so I can't speak that yet.

The lock screen controls for the music player are an absolute joke. They weren't that great on the iphone, but they are like half the size, maybe smaller on the WinMoPho (as my friend calls it) and are really hard targets to hit. I seem to recall that the ZuneHD had a cool thing where you could just swipe to go forward or back, but apparently they didn't carry that over, which is upsetting.

I am still getting used to Search on this thing. The fact that a search in the Marketplace will bring up games/apps/music/movies is a little odd, and unless you go Marketplace->Apps, you will get a lot of cruft.

The Twitter and Facebook apps are pretty nice, but I am still not totally sold on having my facebook stuff in my contacts, but time will tell on that one.

The start screen is also an odd paradigm shift. I haven't explored yet how far down it will go, but as it is right now, I am having a hard time deciding with 8 tiles should be at the top, especially since on the iPhone I could have 16 apps on each screen, plus the 4 in the dock. Going from the 18 apps on my first screen on the iPhone to just 8 big tiles is weird.

Now for the requests. WinMoPho users, what are your app recommendations, specifically in the game department, but also generally speaking. Another specific request, I need an RSS reader to replace NetNewsWire.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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The ZuneHD style swipe to change tracks works within the Zune player on my Focus. I agree that the lock screen media controls are a little small. The Zune HD's lock screen controls cover the whole screen. I think they could have done a little better on this.

The search is cool. And the voice to search is very cool.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
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If the OS was a bit more mature, I'd buy a Surround, a lot of people I work with have portable speakers for their iPods and iPhones and we use them in the procedure rooms, playing music during the cases, a Surround would be perfect for that.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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If the OS was a bit more mature, I'd buy a Surround, a lot of people I work with have portable speakers for their iPods and iPhones and we use them in the procedure rooms, playing music during the cases, a Surround would be perfect for that.

The speaker on it is very loud for a phone. Not as loud as even a cheap iPod dock, but it comes with the phone.

As for the Zune software... DO NOT WANT. I am not saying that iTunes is the end all be all, and I would very much prefer if Apple would tear everything but the music out of it, and have a separate Store, video repository, and definitely a separate syncing suite.

My issue is that the Zune software can't scroll for beans. I had to turn on the hyperscrolling on my Marathon to get the list without wanting to stab the Zune creator in the eye. The fact that only 1 playlist appears along the bottom is also incredibly annoying.

It is only there for Music, and videos and maybe pictures, i cannot recall and am not at home (and things associated with those). So, contacts, notes, photos (if they weren't there), bookmarks, all that other stuff that iTunes handles (that I wish was handled by a separate syncing program like say... iSync on my Mac!) were suspiciously absent from Zune, and I wasn't sure how to get them back and forth.

I couldn't figure out how to get my contacts onto the phone. I had set up MobileMe's free trial to sync my iPhone contacts with Windows 7. But I couldn't get them into Live.com. So I had to install Windows Live Mail to actually access them, and that apparently then dumped them into the cloud and finally my phone saw them. Weird Me/Live/Facebook issues, but that was to be expected.

The 2 things currently on my mind are:
When I have my gmail account set for Push (WinMoPho7PhoMo nomenclature: As they arrive) images do not seem to want to download from emails about half the time. Since my father likes to email us funny images each day, it is a bit of an issue.

There is no timer or stopwatch built in that I could find, 2 things that were very very useful on the iPhone, for when I was cooking, or napping, or whatevering. I have looked through the Marketplace (love the Try button, and the fact that it doesn't ask for my password for free things) but haven't found anything that jumps out at me.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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Yeah, all I found were egg timers. No included timer is a wtf. Plenty of stopwatches in the marketplace though....

Most of your Zune related complaints are more or less just wrong. While the Zune player on the WP7 platform isn't up to the level of a Zune HD, it, and the Zune PC software, are still so far ahead of iTunes I would guess it were a product from 10 years in the future if I didn't know better. Though your biggest mistake was ever using iTunes in the first place. And your second mistake was leaving iTunes once you were already on it. (I mean, it's better right?)
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Yeah, all I found were egg timers. No included timer is a wtf. Plenty of stopwatches in the marketplace though....

Most of your Zune related complaints are more or less just wrong. While the Zune player on the WP7 platform isn't up to the level of a Zune HD, it, and the Zune PC software, are still so far ahead of iTunes I would guess it were a product from 10 years in the future if I didn't know better. Though your biggest mistake was ever using iTunes in the first place. And your second mistake was leaving iTunes once you were already on it. (I mean, it's better right?)

I am comparing Zune on Windows 7 to iTunes 10 on OS X 10.6.4. With a single flick of my scrool wheel (in hyperscroll mode) iTunes flies through my 4500 tracks, with nary a stutter or any lag. That is simply not true on the Zune software.

Furthermore, the fact that I can't grab a bunch of files and drag them to the playlist area (because there isn't one) to make them into a new, needs to be labelled, playlist is incredibly lame. The autoplaylist feature is alright, but it doesn't have as many features as Smart Playlists on iTunes. For example, in iTunes I am able to define a playlist not just by number of files, or playtime, but also size. So on the iPhone I had an 8GB playlist of randomly selected files, and a 3GB playlist of my highest rated stuff, also randomly selected. In addition to any other playlists I might want to have on there. I also can create and edit playlists on the iPhone, all I can seem to accomplish on WinPho7 is to add songs to the current Now Playing list. Which isn't terrible, but I would have liked something like 'On The Go'.

I need to spend some more time with the Zune software, see if I can't work around, or at least with its organizational and idealogical differences, but as it stands right now, using it simply as a way to dump my music on there, but to not play or organize my music is my best option. The mixes are pretty nice though, and assuming I can download the 10 ZunePass songs to the phone directly, I think I will ultimately be happy.

I started using iTunes back with version 5 or something, in 2004 or 2005. It actually had search as you type as opposed to Media Player (9, 10?), and I really preferred the organization of my files compared to MP. Since then, iTunes has gotten bloated, but it is leagues better on OS X than on Windows. Which is why I made it clear that my previous point of reference was an iPhone and iTunes on OS X. iTunes is a little better, at least based on the fact that I have used it exclusively for the past 5-6 years, and I haven't stopped using it. I still, and will continue to, use iTunes in OS X, as that is my primary OS, and the things that I have gone through to get my photos onto SkyDrive, and my music onto the WinPho, and my contacts onto there as well, definitely is not swaying me towards Windows 7 as my primary.

I like the phone, I like the styling, and I like the OS. This was the situation when I chose WinPho 7.

I had an old clunky phone that was slow, and old, and couldn't run the latest OS and was old. Did I mention that it was old?
I wanted another smartphone, this time with 3G.
I was carrier agnostic (AT&T and Verizon are best in my area) as I was not on a contract.
The next iPhone is about 7 months away, getting a new $200 iPhone 4 now seemed like a terrible idea.
WebOS, although interesting was only on smaller devices with hardware keyboards. I do not like hardware keyboards, and I wanted a screen at least the size of the iPhone's.
Blackberry OS was absolutely not happening, mostly the same reasons as for WebOS.
Android... I am not crazy about it. You know how people have idealogical problems with Apple and iOS? I have the same (well, different) idealogical problems with Android.
WinPho7, seemed new, and interesting. I was willing to cut it some 1.0 slack with regards to copy/paste, multi-tasking lack of OS X support since it at least (so I thought before I started) had a good solution in place via Zune. It seemed to actually be a reasonably original take on smartphones, and I could get the hardware I wanted for a penny.

Like I said, I like the phone, I like the OS, I am just sharing my thoughts vis a vi the iPhone/OS X. I had similar issues when I first transitioned to OS X, but I found a way to adapt, and later found that the OS X options suited me better than the Windows ones did. Perhaps I will find the same again.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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I think the phone is garbage, the OS is ok and the Zune player on the phone is crap.

But the Zune software on my Windows 7 PC is the best media software ever made (and the Zune HD still impresses everyone that sees it.) The only thing I'd ding it for is the lousy rating system (heart or don't heart.) I don't know what "hyperscroll" is (I assume it's some kind of OSX black magic) but you can jump to any song by pressing the first letter of the song's name in the zune software. I'm not sure why you'd want to view a list of songs though, that's probably the worst method of sorting (as opposed to by Artist, or album.) You can right click songs and add them to an unnamed playlist.

I cannot fathom why someone so enamored with Apple's OS & media software would buy a Windows Phone. I love MS and I think the phone is barely passable. Get an iPhone and be happy.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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I think the phone is garbage, the OS is ok and the Zune player on the phone is crap.

But the Zune software on my Windows 7 PC is the best media software ever made (and the Zune HD still impresses everyone that sees it.) The only thing I'd ding it for is the lousy rating system (heart or don't heart.) I don't know what "hyperscroll" is (I assume it's some kind of OSX black magic) but you can jump to any song by pressing the first letter of the song's name in the zune software. I'm not sure why you'd want to view a list of songs though, that's probably the worst method of sorting (as opposed to by Artist, or album.) You can right click songs and add them to an unnamed playlist.

I cannot fathom why someone so enamored with Apple's OS & media software would buy a Windows Phone. I love MS and I think the phone is barely passable. Get an iPhone and be happy.

Hyperscroll is the free scrolling method on my Logitech Marathon and VX Revolution. So, no its not OS X black magic. The rating system sort of would work for me, since I was using stars 1-3 on my iPod for things other than the song quality (delete it, bad info, duplicate).

I was scrolling through the whole list because I wanted to throw together a quick playlist, but didn't necessarily know that I wanted to put a song in it until I saw it. Ordinarily, when listening at my desktop I would search for what I wanted to listen to (aside, if you search for something via the search box, and then start playing that file, does it only play whatever came up on the search, or if i then cancel the search will it then go back to going through the whole library?) but in the case of last night, I wanted to go through the whole list.

And right clicking on a selection, selecting 'add to playlist' then selecting 'new playlist' in the event that the existing one and only one at the bottom of the screen isn't the one that you want and then typing in the name doesn't seem as simple to me as grabbing a selection, dragging it to the sidebar, and then typing in the playlist name all in one action. Maybe it is a workflow thing, but there it is.

Why do you think the phone is garbage?

And I laid out why I got the Surround. My old phone was old and slow, the Surround was 1 penny. WinPho7 seemed new and interesting, and the Surround was 1 penny. I prefer software over hardware keyboards, and WinPho7's is second only to the iPhone's (and at times last night, after just a couple hours use, I was going faster on WinPho7), and the Surround was 1 penny. I feel it is necessary to stay informed on what is available in the market since I am 'the tech guy' in my family, same reason why I am going to put Android on my iPhone, and the Surround was 1 penny.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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The build quality of the Samsung Focus just feels cheap. The Camera sucks too. Compare to Sony Xperia X10's camera.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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The build quality of the Samsung Focus just feels cheap. The Camera sucks too. Compare to Sony Xperia X10's camera.

I GOT THE HTC SURROUND! However, I am not deeply impressed by the camera on it either.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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I know what phone you got. The hardware is essentially the same on all the release day phones though. The surround has better build quality though. Feels chunky, like you could club a hobo with it.

The automatic syncing of my photos with Skydrive is pretty cool. Unless your Skydrive is set to public (automatically shares to your facebook) and you take some pictures of yourself in a princess costume for your secret subscription based fantasy gay porn web site. :(
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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I know what phone you got. The hardware is essentially the same on all the release day phones though. The surround has better build quality though. Feels chunky, like you could club a hobo with it.

The automatic syncing of my photos with Skydrive is pretty cool. Unless your Skydrive is set to public (automatically shares to your facebook) and you take some pictures of yourself in a princess costume for your secret subscription based fantasy gay porn web site. :(

Personal experience? :)

Then why bring up the Focus? You never said (in this thread) that you had the Focus, all you said was 'the phone is garbage'.

I currently have it to not auto upload to Skydrive. If i were to turn it on (say like when I was in DC a couple weeks ago) temporarily, would it only upload photos sent after that time, or all photos taken forever?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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I believe it would upload all photos taken forever. Similarly, if you put photos on your Skydrive in your phone's folder, it will put them on your phone.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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I believe it would upload all photos taken forever. Similarly, if you put photos on your Skydrive in your phone's folder, it will put them on your phone.

So you are saying that if I upload a photo from my phone it creates a folder called let's say 'Phone'. If I then, on live.com put a photo from the folder 'wicked cool' into the folder 'Phone' it will download the photo? Interesting.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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The HTC App, Attentive Phone is AMAZING! Here is what it does;
1: If I am on the phone, and i set it facedown on a surface, it will activate the speakerphone. It will then turn it back off when I pick the phone back up.
2: If the phone is ringing and I flip the phone over, it silences the ringer.
3: If the phone is ringing and I pick it up, it lowers the volume of the ringer.
4: If the phone is in my pocket, it increases the ringer volume.

Every phone should have this. Admittedly, number 2 is less of a thing, cuz I think I can just hit the lock button to ignore the call, but the rest are amazing.
 

arod

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2000
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I'm not sure why you'd want to view a list of songs though, that's probably the worst method of sorting (as opposed to by Artist, or album.)

Agreed.... I know what you were trying to do but just create an auto playlist and sync that to the phone (I have mine set to sync any hearted song for up to 500 tracks.... always have new stuff on the phone since it wirelessly syncs everytime I plug it in).

Also not sure what you are describing with zune stuttering but mine never slows down doing any kind of scrolling (but I also have a pretty powerful pc)
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Agreed.... I know what you were trying to do but just create an auto playlist and sync that to the phone (I have mine set to sync any hearted song for up to 500 tracks.... always have new stuff on the phone since it wirelessly syncs everytime I plug it in).

Also not sure what you are describing with zune stuttering but mine never slows down doing any kind of scrolling (but I also have a pretty powerful pc)

My PC is in my sig. And let me put it another way... the other system in my sig, the PowerBook is 6 years old. Same iTunes library as my desktop, OS X 10.5.8, same VX revolution. Scrolls through the entire library just fine.

Stuttering is sort of the wrong word... choppy? Jumpy? Unsmooth?

I made an autoplaylist. 1500 songs big since i couldn't define by size. But I also wanted a playlist with maybe 30-50 songs in it that I really liked/wanted. And since I almost never use the Zune Software to playback music (it is like 95&#37; iTunes OS X, 5% Zune Windows, maybe less actually) I don't have any heart ratings. I had just pointed the library at my iTunes file on my Snow Leopard drive, and called it a day. And when running through the library I was just grabbing titles that jumped out at me. 'Ooh, Shot Through the Heart... on the playlist. Symphony Number 9, on the playlist.' There was no way to effectively automate that.
 
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TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Here is another thing. What is up with the Youtube app? Kicking me to the browser for the searches, and then not letting me zoom the videos... Am I do something wrong? I haven't had a chance to test with any local videos yet. But IIRC Netflix will full screen.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Anyone else have the Surround? Does it also get warm at the bottom for you?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
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My PC is in my sig. And let me put it another way... the other system in my sig, the PowerBook is 6 years old. Same iTunes library as my desktop, OS X 10.5.8, same VX revolution. Scrolls through the entire library just fine.

Stuttering is sort of the wrong word... choppy? Jumpy? Unsmooth?

I made an autoplaylist. 1500 songs big since i couldn't define by size. But I also wanted a playlist with maybe 30-50 songs in it that I really liked/wanted. And since I almost never use the Zune Software to playback music (it is like 95% iTunes OS X, 5% Zune Windows, maybe less actually) I don't have any heart ratings. I had just pointed the library at my iTunes file on my Snow Leopard drive, and called it a day. And when running through the library I was just grabbing titles that jumped out at me. 'Ooh, Shot Through the Heart... on the playlist. Symphony Number 9, on the playlist.' There was no way to effectively automate that.

Ah, I see you have a dual core and a GTX 260. I believe recommended hardware for the Zune music player is a quad core and GTX 295.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
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Sep 15, 2004
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Ah, I see you have a dual core and a GTX 260. I believe recommended hardware for the Zune music player is a quad core and GTX 295.

:facepalm: I knew I should have sprung for the q6600... what a fool I was!

I can finally put into words what is wrong with the scrolling. It is smooth, it is just incredibly slow. Ever click of the mouse wheel is one song. So a full scroll will only move the list like 15 items.
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
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:facepalm: I knew I should have sprung for the q6600... what a fool I was!

I can finally put into words what is wrong with the scrolling. It is smooth, it is just incredibly slow. Ever click of the mouse wheel is one song. So a full scroll will only move the list like 15 items.

see if your mouse settings in control panel lets you adjust the number of lines per click of the wheel.
 

PhoKingGuy

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2007
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:facepalm: I knew I should have sprung for the q6600... what a fool I was!

I can finally put into words what is wrong with the scrolling. It is smooth, it is just incredibly slow. Ever click of the mouse wheel is one song. So a full scroll will only move the list like 15 items.

Hyperscroll works perfectly fine on Zune Desktop on my Win7 desktop.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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I still don't know wtf "hyperscroll" is. Does my Logitech G500 have it? Is that when you put the mouse wheel in free-spin mode instead of click-spin mode?
 

PhoKingGuy

Diamond Member
Nov 15, 2007
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I still don't know wtf "hyperscroll" is. Does my Logitech G500 have it? Is that when you put the mouse wheel in free-spin mode instead of click-spin mode?

Yeah, thats it. I can scroll through my entire 35 GB library with one flick, in either the artist listing pane or the album art pane, I dunno what hes talking about.