HTC now actually losing money

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s44

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Oct 13, 2006
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http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/05/htc-q4-expectations/

So it turns out that making flagship devices for tech press types doesn't get you much unless you can cash in on the brand elsewhere.

In recent times HTC has been mostly focused on flagship handsets such as the HTC One and HTC One Max. Expensive to buy, and expensive to produce. Yet growth in smartphones is largely coming from emerging nations buying more affordable handsets
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...which is exactly what Google and Samsung are saying.
 
zerogear

zerogear

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Jun 4, 2000
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It's always been that way. One or two flagship products that represents the company's technical prowess, while making mid/low end products to supplement bottom line. They only company that doesn't do this while still being successful is Apple -- And way too many companies are trying to follow the "boutique" profile of Apple without having the following nor the name recognization.
 
Bateluer

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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Short memories. Making a truck load of low end, budget handsets is what got HTC into trouble in the first place.
 
Imaginer

Imaginer

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I wonder if this will impact the proposed HTC Harmony? I like their speaker placement, in the front of the phone compared to the 8X's placement (behind).
 
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Crono

Lifer
Aug 8, 2001
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zerogear said:
It's always been that way. One or two flagship products that represents the company's technical prowess, while making mid/low end products to supplement bottom line. They only company that doesn't do this while still being successful is Apple -- And way too many companies are trying to follow the "boutique" profile of Apple without having the following nor the name recognization.
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I'm sure Samsung is crying over the money they lost on the S4. :p

It's the companies playing second fiddle to Samsung (namely HTC, LG, and Sony) who are taking risks with their flagships. But the flagships are where the big profit margins are at, and HTC and LG do make lower end and midrange products and have for as long as Samsung has. They just haven't been very successful lately at it, even if the products themselves have been decent. HTC First, anyone?

It's only Sony really that was ever in the same mold as Apple, though they haven't been very successful in the smartphone world in getting sales here in the United States and broadly internationally. The only smartphone company that is doing a very good job of making quality phones from the lower end all the way up to premium (in my opinion) is Nokia (soon to be part of Microsoft). They just don't have huge market share and are really only just starting this year to be profitable again.
 
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ITHURTSWHENIP

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Nov 30, 2011
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Crono said:
I'm sure Samsung is crying over the money they lost on the S4. :p

It's the companies playing second fiddle to Samsung (namely HTC, LG, and Sony) who are taking risks with their flagships. But the flagships are where the big profit margins are at, and HTC and LG do make lower end and midrange products and have for as long as Samsung has. They just haven't been very successful lately at it, even if the products themselves have been decent. HTC First, anyone?

It's only Sony really that was ever in the same mold as Apple, though they haven't been very successful in the smartphone world in getting sales here in the United States and broadly internationally. The only smartphone company that is doing a very good job of making quality phones from the lower end all the way up to premium (in my opinion) is Nokia (soon to be part of Microsoft). They just don't have huge market share and are really only just starting this year to be profitable again.
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Nokia isnt profitable, they have been losing money every quarter. They have been playing a desperate game by selling phones cheap with almost no margins in order to increase marketshare. They have basically the lowest ASP of the "name" smartphone vendors and would have gone bankrupt eventually if Microsoft hadnt bought them out

This is the first quarter HTC actually lost money
 
code65536

code65536

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Mar 7, 2006
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it's all about marketing.

I've lost count of the number of times I've had someone ask me questions along the lines of, "What Samsung model is that?" or "Is that a Samsung?" when they see me use my Nexus 4. (My favorite is when someone asked if my phone is the latest "Samsung Droid".)

It's not about flagship vs. low-budget phones. It's about phones for the tech savvy market vs. phones for the Joe Sixpack market. Wanna guess which of those two is bigger?

The tech savvy market knows that Android != Samsung. They are aware of companies like HTC. They know what a Nexus is. You win this market the traditional way: good product at a good price. You win the Joe Sixpack market by building mindshare--by making sure that when they think of a smartphone, they think of your name. I see Samsung ads everywhere. They get mainstream press coverage because they are the biggest fish and because of the high-profile patent lawsuits (no such thing as bad publicity). And for the vast majority of people who don't understand what the specs even mean, that name recognition is about all they have to go on.
 
ClockHound

ClockHound

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Nov 27, 2007
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WelshBloke said:
Because no one is buying their $600 dollar flagship phone.
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I did. Love it! Altho it didn't cost me near $600. Feel bad they're losing money. Pretty sure it's not all my fault, but is there a Donate button on their website? ;-)
 
StrangerGuy

StrangerGuy

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May 9, 2004
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WelshBloke said:
Because no one is buying their $600 dollar flagship phone.
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I dunno, phone consumers probably care about how much features you take away than how much you add. The S4 is an fully incremental upgrade over the S3, can't say the same for the One. *cough SD card, removable battery, shitty camera in good lighting conditions"
 
D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
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Crono said:
I'm sure Samsung is crying over the money they lost on the S4. :p

It's the companies playing second fiddle to Samsung (namely HTC, LG, and Sony) who are taking risks with their flagships. But the flagships are where the big profit margins are at, and HTC and LG do make lower end and midrange products and have for as long as Samsung has. They just haven't been very successful lately at it, even if the products themselves have been decent. HTC First, anyone?

It's only Sony really that was ever in the same mold as Apple, though they haven't been very successful in the smartphone world in getting sales here in the United States and broadly internationally. The only smartphone company that is doing a very good job of making quality phones from the lower end all the way up to premium (in my opinion) is Nokia (soon to be part of Microsoft). They just don't have huge market share and are really only just starting this year to be profitable again.
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Nonsense. SONY has repeatedly said they are, for now, focusing on their strengths (wrt smartphones) and that is in Japan, Europe and Asia. They can afford to considering the breadth of other products and services they have to offer. America will come when their positions in their strongholds become more stable. Also, SONY makes plenty of low-end to mid-range phones that have been popular (again, in Asia, Europe and Japan). IIRC, SONY's smartphone business is growing faster than Samsung, although the scales are different. I have no idea where HTC went wrong but they were making a lot of low-end to mid-range phones but there was no product branding that truly unified all of them. That may be because of their history as an ODM. Hopefully, someone over there rights that ship and they become more successful in the future.
 
jacktesterson

jacktesterson

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Sep 28, 2001
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HTC Brought this on themselves.


They had a super annoying (basically no naming scheme that made sense) prior to the One X/One S/One V/One C series.... It confused the hell out of people
ress.

They have made some bad investments over the years too.. spending over 500 million dollars on dumb patents and businesses. The only one they truly profited from was buying a large stack in Beats Audio then selling there shares at a profit recently. (probably why the new One Maxx does not have Beats Audio)

They were also extremely slow at updating devices after launch prior to the latest "The One" where they promised to get better.


Sucks as they were once 3rd in sales, now I'm not sure if they are in the top 10.

LG is or will be #3 soon I'm sure.
 
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MrX8503

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Oct 23, 2005
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HTC is losing money because Samsung is destroying them. Nothing to do with investment in the high end.


DLeRium said:
How is HTC losing money with their flagship phone when it sells for $600, yet Google is not losing money on the N4?
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2hrs on the CNC machine per device? I dunno
 
S

s44

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 2006
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DLeRium said:
How is HTC losing money with their flagship phone when it sells for $600, yet Google is not losing money on the N4?
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HTC, like most companies, has a fair amount of fixed costs that don't go into the BoM vs sale price idea of profit. They have to sell a lot of those $600 flagship phones to be overall in the black... and they aren't.
 
sweenish

sweenish

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May 21, 2013
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I blame their absolutely idiotic buttons (type and placement). The phone was always a non-starter for me just because of that.

And they're not even as dev-friendly as Samsung phones. And that's saying something.
 
blairharrington

blairharrington

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The One might have the worst power and volume rocker I have ever used on a smartphone. It's so flush with the edge which makes it a pain to press each time. Putting your home in the lower right and power/wake button in the upper left are big mistakes. The lack of proper marketing hurts HTC a great deal. Their lineup last year sucked and was poorly named.

I wish HTC the best. Competition always benefits the consumer. But I've never liked the One and if they do end up failing in the end it's their own doing.
 
foghorn67

foghorn67

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Jan 3, 2006
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blairharrington said:
The One might have the worst power and volume rocker I have ever used on a smartphone. It's so flush with the edge which makes it a pain to press each time. Putting your home in the lower right and power/wake button in the upper left are big mistakes. The lack of proper marketing hurts HTC a great deal. Their lineup last year sucked and was poorly named.

I wish HTC the best. Competition always benefits the consumer. But I've never liked the One and if they do end up failing in the end it's their own doing.
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I never thought I'd read something more pedantic than that. The volume rocker...rocks. It feels nice, unlike some other plastic, jumbly phones.

The One still is one of the best phones on the market.
 
Qbah

Qbah

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Oct 18, 2005
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Bummer... I absolutely love my HTC One with Android 4.3 :) Great battery, gorgeous screen, very fast :) I hope they push 4.4 soon (they said within 90 days of announcement).

I hope HTC can survive - the One's construction is phenomenal. Especially the speakers and their location - why did nobody else do the same... they just make so much sense!
 
blairharrington

blairharrington

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foghorn67 said:
I never thought I'd read something more pedantic than that. The volume rocker...rocks. It feels nice, unlike some other plastic, jumbly phones.

The One still is one of the best phones on the market.
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My point is not pedantic. And your insult is completely unnecessary.

The volume rocker on the One is simply too flush with the side. The same can be said of the power/wake button. It will bother some. It won't bother others.

Buttons are important on a smartphone. Not only are the One's buttons too flush with the side, the power/wake button placement is a mistake in the upper left. A phone that large should have their power button on the right side of the device. The One Max made this change.
 
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PowerYoga

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Nov 6, 2001
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HTC's branding and marketing also sucks. I have no idea what the latest HTC handset is called. Maxx? One? Two? I also rarely hear about HTC phones outside of droid forums, and have no idea why I should pick it over a galaxy note, s3, or an iphone.

They don't capitalize on their brand image at all.
 
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