HTC is tanking

[WelshBloke]

If Samsung were to released the GS4 in both plastic and metal versions. And offer them at the same price point, the metal would sell better I bet...

I'm not sure about that. The metal one would be thicker, heavier and would cause issues with the removable battery and Sdcard. They would also have to redesign the antenna.

 

[WelshBloke]

...

Are plastics necessarily cheaper? Aluminium is pretty cheap. The drinks industry uses both, if one were significantly cheaper surely they would use just that one.

 

[krumme]

Are plastics necessarily cheaper? Aluminium is pretty cheap. The drinks industry uses both, if one were significantly cheaper surely they would use just that one.

Aluminium produced with that kind of precision, needed for a slim but solid phone, put lots of stress on the long term accuracy - and maintaince - of the production tools, even though working with aluminium the last years have become more and more easy.

Ask every tool engineer with experience in bouth plastic and aluminium, about the choice of aluminium, especially the unibody style, for a phone, and they will say its outright stupid and to be avoided.

Secondly there is an important environmental issue to. The use of alu unibody is a disgrace.

If you want to use aluminium try at least keep it to a minimum, it gives you slim and lightweight then. Have a look at the paper thin backplate of the Samsung series 9 x3c ultrabook for an example how it can be done.

 

[WelshBloke]

Wouldn't very thin aluminium be pretty structurally rubbish? At least with thin plastic it will flex rather than permanently deform.

Also wouldn't the tolerances on a uni body phone not need to be as tight as a phone comprised of various pieces that fit together?

 

[bigboxes]

Wouldn't very thin aluminium be pretty structurally rubbish?

Nope. We aren't talking about tin foil here. Instead of wondering, head out to your local store and hold the models in your hand. Then you'll see the difference. Now, plastic can be manufactured to a high standard. The S3/S4 are great phones. Put your biases aside and check out all your options.

 

[dagamer34]

Nope. We aren't talking about tin foil here. Instead of wondering, head out to your local store and hold the models in your hand. Then you'll see the difference. Now, plastic can be manufactured to a high standard. The S3/S4 are great phones. Put your biases aside and check out all your options.

Thing is, we aren't just talking about plastic vs. aluminum. The Lumia 920 and HTC One X are plastic, but high quality plastic marketed as polycarbonate (whether the public doesn't understand that they are technically the same is besides the point). However, I think the perceived quality of the S3/S4 really boils down to two things: the cheap feeling one gets when removing and replacing the battery cover, and how light the phone feels in the hand.

 

[QueBert]

Notice the progress they have done in 2-3 years. What did apple do at the same period? There is a reason everyone is scared about this elephant.

They went bigger screen with the same flimsily ass feel in your hand. Oh and the Note 2 still has the input lag of the Note 1. They also introduced S-Voice, which they've taken from an unusable piece of crap, to a piece of crap nobody really wants to use.

Sorry if I'm not wowed by the "progress" they have made. IMHO all they're really doing is "look a new phone model that has a .4" bigger screen OMGWTFBBQSAUCE!" After the 6" Note III I wonder what they'll move on it, since 6" should be the largest possibly phone.

Apple has made progress too, and the iPhone I have in my hand right now doesn't creek at all. Sure I can't drop it without possibly busting it to shit. But nothing about my Galaxy Note felt solid. I hated that about it. And I never dropped it once the year I had it, so durability would be low on my list of what's important.

 

[WelshBloke]

Nope. We aren't talking about tin foil here. Instead of wondering, head out to your local store and hold the models in your hand. Then you'll see the difference. Now, plastic can be manufactured to a high standard. The S3/S4 are great phones. Put your biases aside and check out all your options.

Eh?

We were talking about the respective advantages of plastic and aluminium. Thin plastic will deform under stress then it will revert back to its shape. Thin aluminium will deform under stress and remain deformed.

 

[shortylickens]

I have a Note 2, there is no input lag.

I dont even know what people are talking about.

 

[Irenicus]

I have a Note 2, there is no input lag.

I dont even know what people are talking about.

I never got peoples issues with plastic, there is nothing wrong with the material. There IS something wrong with continuing to release such an ugly design with the s3/s4.


The s3 was a step backwards in design, and the s4 follows suit. It's tolerable from the front, but the back is a joke. It won't matter in the end, samsung has almost as many fanboys defending them as apple does now, but I wish the market would stop rewarding them for releasing such uninspired designs.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Well part of why it does so well even amongst those in the know is because Samsung consistently includes what we want even more than a nicer looking design.

Things like better battery life, removeable batteries, better specifications, microsd storage and so on. I love the look of the HTC One and its front facing speakers but almost everything else, Samsung beats it out.

In the end, I'd rather have a faster phone with better battery life and removeable storage over a nice looking phone that doesn't have all that.

 

[Irenicus]

Well part of why it does so well even amongst those in the know is because Samsung consistently includes what we want even more than a nicer looking design.

Things like better battery life, removeable batteries, better specifications, microsd storage and so on. I love the look of the HTC One and its front facing speakers but almost everything else, Samsung beats it out.

In the end, I'd rather have a faster phone with better battery life and removeable storage over a nice looking phone that doesn't have all that.

That is part of the problem, people are making a conceptual fallacy about battery life and storage.

What people really want on their phones is more battery life and more storage. There are several ways to address that problem, higher capacity batteries, more built in storage, swappable batteries/storage, etc.

The fallacy is that people seem to think the ONLY way to achieve the primary goal of more storage and more battery life, is to allow those components to be swappable. No. You could increase the base level storage of the device, like the ONE did. If people need even more than that can provide, then they would need to go to a phone with swappable storage. How many people do you think that is?

For battery life, that is even more of a red herring. The primary reason people wanted swappable batteries, is that battery life was so god awful (think HTC Thunderbolt) you needed to swap them out to get through a day. But there are many phones that can easily get through an entire day on the built in higher capacity batteries. I have an s2 now with an 1850mah battery, the ONE has a 2300mah, the s4 a 2600mah. I can already get through the day fine on my phone unless I am using data all day. So what is exactly is the outsized benefit of being able to swap the battery? to let the phone last longer playing some 3d game on the phone I don't care about? And even if I wanted to do that, there are external chargers, and battery cases with FAR more storage than ANY of these swappable batteries.

It is a non issue, a pebble in the road that would deter almost no one from being able to use the device, but some people turn that into a redwood sized barrier that makes the phone useless. It is not logical. They are confused, they think the goal is swappable batteries, and swappable storage. No. The goal was sufficient battery life and sufficient storage, and making those swappable is not the ONLY way to get there.

easy analogy is an electric car, takes a bit of time to charge, however, if there were batteries that existed that were cheap enough and energy dense enough for a car to travel 1000 to 2000 miles on a charge.... a longer charge time would NOT be that big of a deal. The need to SWAP out the fuel so frequently would not be a deal breaker.

Am I making sense here?

I get that people have priorities of swappable this, and swappable that, but I am telling you all, you are focused on the wrong thing.

If you had a phone with a built in battery that lasted 4 days on a charge, but the battery was not swappable, and you chose the s4 over that even though you liked everything else about that other phone, that would be extremely foolish. Are we there yet? No, but we will be, and I need some of my faith in humanity and reason and logic restored, I need to know that at some point people will stop being so obsessed with trivialities like swappable storage, because at some point, they will become trivial issues for everyone. They already are for many, but the momentum of a tired and decayed idea often lives far longer than its shelf life.

 

[bigboxes]

Eh?

We were talking about the respective advantages of plastic and aluminium. Thin plastic will deform under stress then it will revert back to its shape. Thin aluminium will deform under stress and remain deformed.

Exactly what stress are you talking about? Have you held these fragile aluminum phones in your hand? They are thicker than you imagine. I'm not advocating one over the other. I just think that you are misinformed about their delicate nature.

 

[God Mode]

I dislike aluminum for handheld devices. Every highend walkman, discman and minidisc player that I've owned over the years with an aluminum housing has dented and deformed for me within a short period.

 

[MrX8503]

People like the idea of metal, though when they come to use it they hate it and wrap it up in a plastic case.... just get the plastic one, no need for a case then.

I take my case off my iPhone 5 because I like the feel of metal. Metal is better than plastic. Drop tests from Android Authority also showed the 5 being more durable than the SGS3.

Basically all plastic is good for is scratches and antenna signals. Samsung can use plastic, they just need to get rid of that awful texture.

 

[ChronoReverse]

What people really want on their phones is more battery life and more storage. There are several ways to address that problem, higher capacity batteries, more built in storage, swappable batteries/storage, etc.

The fallacy is that people seem to think the ONLY way to achieve the primary goal of more storage and more battery life, is to allow those components to be swappable. No. You could increase the base level storage of the device, like the ONE did. If people need even more than that can provide, then they would need to go to a phone with swappable storage. How many people do you think that is?

You know what? The Galaxy Note 2 has really good battery life AND a removeable battery. The real fallacy is that a sealed battery is necessary in any way.

 

[Red Storm]

I can't get over the incredibly stupid button arrangement on the One. The nav buttons are the one thing you are constantly interacting with, what the hell was HTC thinking?

 

[poofyhairguy]

Are we there yet? No, but we will be

Really?

Seems like battery tech isn't keeping up with everything else. Battery sizes are growing because screen size is growing which allows for more battery in the device, but that has a ceiling.

Until new battery tech hits that does allow for two days of real use, and 128GB is included on the phone, I am going to prefer removable batteries and SD card slots.

 

[dagamer34]

Really?

Seems like battery tech isn't keeping up with everything else. Battery sizes are growing because screen size is growing which allows for more battery in the device, but that has a ceiling.

Until new battery tech hits that does allow for two days of real use, and 128GB is included on the phone, I am going to prefer removable batteries and SD card slots.

2 days of real use is never happening because you will ALWAYS be able to drain a battery in a few short hours.

As for 128GB of storage, I don't see why the average person needs the same amount of storage as in most Ultrabooks. Do you really need to store your entire movie/music collection on your phone?

 

[Red Storm]

Really?

Seems like battery tech isn't keeping up with everything else. Battery sizes are growing because screen size is growing which allows for more battery in the device, but that has a ceiling.

Until new battery tech hits that does allow for two days of real use, and 128GB is included on the phone, I am going to prefer removable batteries and SD card slots.

The Razr Maxx will easily get you two days of usage, and it has a mSD slot so it's halfway there in storage.

 

[poofyhairguy]

2 days of real use is never happening because you will ALWAYS be able to drain a battery in a few short hours.

Sure, but two days average for normal use would be nice. Heck, I wouldn't probably complain with one heavy day of use (so once every phone has a Razr Maxx-level battery). Even though now I am spoiled by never charging thanks to replaceable batteries.

As for 128GB of storage, I don't see why the average person needs the same amount of storage as in most Ultrabooks.

An average person might not, but then again they are never going to really use the SoC inside.

If the goal is to get rid of MicroSD slots, this is the level that makes me comfortable. If the goal is to meet what the average user needs then 16 GB is probably fine, but I will still complain about no MicroSD slot.

Do you really need to store your entire movie/music collection on your phone?

My movie collection is over 12tbs and my music collection is over a terabyte (not to mention my 15tb TV collection). No phone in my lifetime will hold it all.

What 128GB WILL hold is my most recent 1080p mkv movies, a season of the TV show my wife and I are watching at that time, and the music I just need to have at all times. At 128GB I could really use the 1080p screens on phones for media consumption, and I could just load up my phone for our weekend trips and not bring the army of MicroSD cards I currently bring.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Even if the based size were 32GB I'd complain a lot less (the HTC One Dev Model being 64GB mostly alleviates it). Flash memory isn't even expensive or takes up a lot of space. It's a deliberate attempt to market segment as well as making people "use the cloud".

 

[dagamer34]

Even if the based size were 32GB I'd complain a lot less (the HTC One Dev Model being 64GB mostly alleviates it). Flash memory isn't even expensive or takes up a lot of space. It's a deliberate attempt to market segment as well as making people "use the cloud".

8/16GB of storage in the Nexus 4 is getting people to "use the cloud". 16/32/64GB of storage is charging people way more than what the difference in OEM part costs are in order to make a profit. There's no conspiracy here.

 

[ChronoReverse]

I didn't say there was a conspiracy? You might have been overly eager there to call someone out.


Market segmentation is "market speak" for splitting the market in order to increase profits over something that doesn't cost the manufacturer much. It's always done but that doesn't mean we have to like it.

 

[Ravynmagi]

And now it's officially delayed everywhere....

http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/03/19/htc-one-delay/