HT-PC - 1080p playback problems

[TVNoob]

Hello all.

I brought myself the required pieces to playback HD content from my PC to my TV but the results have been dissappointing. I think there must be some kind of driver issue going on as I am sure the spec is ok:

AMD Athlon 64 x2 - 3800 overclocked 10%
2gig DDR400 RAM (
Nvidia 8800GT graphics card
Onboard Realtek soundcard.

I have two DVIs out from the graphics card, one to my LCD monitor and the other to the TV. I have the Nvidia control panel set to "Clone" so it outputs to both at once.

I am using The Core Media Player, latest Nvidia drivers (Dec 17th, Forceware 169.21) and libavcodec h264

My problem is I simply can't play true HD (1080p) content without frequent and long stutters, rendering it unwatchable. I can play 720p films ok, with the odd short stutter in a few films.

I am sure this config should be enough to watch HD - my father brought a $150 motherboard with onboard video and his plays content back perfectly! With my $250 graphics card I can't believe it can't play back HD..... am I doing something wrong?

With the onscreen diagnostics I can see the CPU usage hitting 50% (100% of 1 CPU) before it stutters - it makes me think the codec is not utilising the Purevideo decoding on the graphics card?

Any help will be gratefully received.......

TVNoob.

 

[Auric]

libavcodec is not capable of hardware acceleration. A commercial decoder is required such as from CyberLink or Ahead.

Typical 720p should not be a problem with software-only decoding with that CPU though. Test with confirmed good files (preferably commercial). What bitrate are the files? To assure being able to play anything, AVC up to 40 Mbps should be tested or else if it is borderline now, for say 20 Mbps, then you may run into the same problem in the near future.

Try using the latest stable version of libavcodec and toggling off standard deblocking. Reducing the demand in such a way may at least confirm the problem is indeed lack of CPU power. You could try a different player too such as MPC or MPC-HC.

Don't discount GPU driver or configuration problems though. Check Nvidia forums for known driver defects and preferred video settings (especially advanced de-interlacing and such). Instead of Clone, you may also try DualView.

Also what OS and renderer are you using? For XP, the default VMR7 is generally best (slightly better performance than VMR9 and allows mirroring). You could try Overlay but the quality isn't as good and performance may not even increase.

 

[jtvang125]

Did you install the Purevideo decoder from invidia?

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: jtvang125
Did you install the Purevideo decoder from invidia?

If you did, uninstall it... it's crap. Seriousry, it's just for olde timey MPEG-2 so virtually useless on its own and if going to use commercial decoders for AVC and VC-1 then better to use the same provider's MPEG-2 decoder to standardize configuration (and avoid paying twice). MPEG-2 is not worth buying stand-alone these days anyway and if you did want it alone (with DxVA capability) then chances are it is included with an ODD or GPU you have already purchased.

 

[squirrel dog]

Try it without the cpu overclock as well.

 

[TVNoob]

Thanks for the answers guys. I am on Windows XP. It is slower without the CPU overclock.

Can any of the commerical decoders which support PureVideo HD usage be used with Matroska video files? I looked at PowerDVD and was pretty sure it could just play AVIs and blueray/hd-dvd disks....

The DualView mode has disaappeared from my Nvidia Control Panel.. it doesn't show up as an option now which is a bit odd. I have seen it there before and used it.

 

[Auric]

PDVD is capable of playing most standard video formats but Matroska is not one. However, the included AVC decoder can be used with universal DirectShow players such as MPC and Zoom Player and therefore can be used to hardware accelerate AVC in Matroska containers.

Most MKV files available have been encoded with x264 and non-standard settings though which effectively precludes hardware playback -acceleration "works" to minimize CPU useage but the framerate is artificially limited (i.e. 20 instead of ~24). Awareness of the problem is increasing so newly encoded files should be less affected going forward.

Another option, given MKV files with standard AVC encoding, would be to remux to a standard container such as TS to playback in PDVD. Personally, I use MPC-HC for everything possible (using PDVD DxVA decoders) and only PDVD's player when necessary (HD disc formats).

 

[XMan]

Unless you're using an app that utilizes the 8800GT's hardware acceleration, your CPU isn't sufficient for 1080P.

 

[RaiderJ]

My X2-4400+ struggles with some 1080p rips, so I can imagine a 3800 would as well. Gonna have to get a faster C2D setup I guess!

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ
My X2-4400+ struggles with some 1080p rips, so I can imagine a 3800 would as well. Gonna have to get a faster C2D setup I guess!

... or just avoid non-standard recodes and use a DxVA decoder for the good schtuff. Brute force software-only decoding is not the way to go because it uses more power (possibly more cooling noise too) and leaves little room for multi-tasking. Also, the hardware sports features specific to image quality which may be lost with software-only.

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: RaiderJ
My X2-4400+ struggles with some 1080p rips, so I can imagine a 3800 would as well. Gonna have to get a faster C2D setup I guess!

... or just avoid non-standard recodes and use a DxVA decoder for the good schtuff. Brute force software-only decoding is not the way to go because it uses more power (possibly more cooling noise too) and leaves little room for multi-tasking. Also, the hardware sports features specific to image quality which may be lost with software-only.

The particular 1080p rips were of the Planet Earth TV show, so I figured they were just some crazy high bitrate. For most other 1080p stuff my machine does fine. Beats spending tons of money on a silly Blu-Ray player!

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

The particular 1080p rips were of the Planet Earth TV show, so I figured they were just some crazy high bitrate. For most other 1080p stuff my machine does fine. Beats spending tons of money on a silly Blu-Ray player!

PE was broadcast in 20 Mbps AVC and then released on disc formats in VC-1 -don't know the bitrate but it has some colour banding issues so perhaps not much higher.

Recodes couldn't have been more demanding except for borking compatability with hardware. The other problem with recodes is they are often "mock" HD... matching the expected resolution but reducing quality significantly due to combinations of recompression, lower bitrate, and other shens such as sharpening.

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

The particular 1080p rips were of the Planet Earth TV show, so I figured they were just some crazy high bitrate. For most other 1080p stuff my machine does fine. Beats spending tons of money on a silly Blu-Ray player!

PE was broadcast in 20 Mbps AVC and then released on disc formats in VC-1 -don't know the bitrate but it has some colour banding issues so perhaps not much higher.

Recodes couldn't have been more demanding except for borking compatability with hardware. The other problem with recodes is they are often "mock" HD... matching the expected resolution but reducing quality significantly due to combinations of recompression, lower bitrate, and other shens such as sharpening.

Maybe then some of my problem was just my setup. An earlier post you mention MPC-HC, that's Media Player Classic, Home Cinema edition? Is that just a GUI mod for MPC? For the decoder, you mention PDVD DxVA - are those freely available or for purchase?

I believe the PE rips I downloaded were MKV files, about 4GB/ea.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

The particular 1080p rips were of the Planet Earth TV show, so I figured they were just some crazy high bitrate. For most other 1080p stuff my machine does fine. Beats spending tons of money on a silly Blu-Ray player!

PE was broadcast in 20 Mbps AVC and then released on disc formats in VC-1 -don't know the bitrate but it has some colour banding issues so perhaps not much higher.

Recodes couldn't have been more demanding except for borking compatability with hardware. The other problem with recodes is they are often "mock" HD... matching the expected resolution but reducing quality significantly due to combinations of recompression, lower bitrate, and other shens such as sharpening.

Maybe then some of my problem was just my setup. An earlier post you mention MPC-HC, that's Media Player Classic, Home Cinema edition? Is that just a GUI mod for MPC? For the decoder, you mention PDVD DxVA - are those freely available or for purchase?

I believe the PE rips I downloaded were MKV files, about 4GB/ea.

There are freeware/OEM versions that were sometimes packaged with DVD/CD burners. I think you need PDVD 'ultra' to play 'true' HD-DVD/BluRay vc1/h264 content - but I don't think the 'HD 1080p' you want to play has those requirements.

Some of the OEM versions would be limited - i.e., you would have to purchase a $20 upgrade for AC3 audio ... I think some versions would 'pass' an AC3 stream to your PC sound or SS receiver ... That said -

Power DVD or ebay 'cyberlink Power DVD'

Originally posted by: TVNoob
Thanks for the answers guys. I am on Windows XP. It is slower without the CPU overclock.

Can any of the commerical decoders which support PureVideo HD usage be used with Matroska video files? I looked at PowerDVD and was pretty sure it could just play AVIs and blueray/hd-dvd disks....

AFAIK PowerDVD has the filters/codecs for an .mkv file with AC3 audio BUT I don't do matroska so I can't help you with that ....

Originally posted by: RaiderJ
My X2-4400+ struggles with some 1080p rips, so I can imagine a 3800 would as well. Gonna have to get a faster C2D setup I guess!

As noted, this is not a 'hardware' problem. An .mkv file is a 'wrapper' for the content. You seem to have a conflict with the playback of the content ...

 

[stepone]

I have those same 1080P, x264 mkv Planet earth rips and they are the only HD rips which stutter on my rig when played in WMP.
However, I use MediaPortal for my HTPC needs which allows you to use your hardware decoder in concert with PowerDVD's decoder and after switching to that from the standard libra codec the playback is silky smooth! MediaPortal is a free sourceforge project and does everything you could possibly want for video playback (even works with the MCE remote).
Have a look here: http://www.team-mediaportal.com

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: stepone
I have those same 1080P, x264 mkv Planet earth rips and they are the only HD rips which stutter on my rig when played in WMP.
However, I use MediaPortal for my HTPC needs which allows you to use your hardware decoder in concert with PowerDVD's decoder and after switching to that from the standard libra codec the playback is silky smooth! MediaPortal is a free sourceforge project and does everything you could possibly want for video playback (even works with the MCE remote).
Have a look here: http://www.team-mediaportal.com

I have a 7900GT - which doesn't have a hardware decoder available, correct?

Is that Planet Earth rip just have some crazy high bitrate? Can you handle other 1080p rips just fine through software?

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ
I have a 7900GT - which doesn't have a hardware decoder available, correct?

Is that Planet Earth rip just have some crazy high bitrate? Can you handle other 1080p rips just fine through software?

Nvidia 7000 series sports a first generation HD decoder to reduce CPU demand significantly with a DxVA compliant decoder but still only by only a fraction compared to second generation decoders in the 8000 series and AMD 2000 and 3000. Given the Planet Earth episodes referred to are only 4GB, it means the bitrate was cut in half to less than 10 Mbps so are not particularly demanding nor very good quality (equivalent to Apple trailers for instance). Given standard encoding those are no problem at all for Nvidia 7000 given a DxVA decoder but again, if not standard then hardware acceleration is impossible and even the highest end AMD CPU's may struggle.

 

[stepone]

The 1080P planet earth rips are 4.4GB's each & around 50 mins long so they're actually a pretty decent bit rate. I have other 10GB 1080P rips & none of them ever stutter so it may also be a factor of how these specific videos were encoded...

 

[TVNoob]

Well I had a minor issue with my motherboard fan failing without me noticing, which lead to a corrupted HDD... so for the first time in 4 years I find myself re-installing my O/S.

Now, without 4 years of crap cluttering every thing up I've found playback is perfect, using WMC and CoreAVC.

I'm not even overclocking the CPU now... I am astonished that this fixed the problem (I thought it was useing the right codecs, having other ones installed wouldn't affect the playback speed).... possibly now I definitely have the newest versions of everything I am using more optimized code.. that's the only explanation I can think of.