HT Buffs - $100 component cables worth it?

[Idex]

Just get one here -

bluejeanscable.com

 

[DPmaster]

It all really depends on what kind of equipment you're using (HDTV or regular TV, progressive scan DVD player or non-progressive scan DVD player, etc.). If you're hooking up a $60 DVD player to a $250 TV then no it's not worth it. However, if you're already spending thousands on a high quality TV, DVD player, etc. then I would say YES. I did what some people here already stated, and used generic compositive cables as component cables from my TV to my Zektor HDS4 (component video switch). The picture quality from my DVD player and game consoles was OK but not great. I went out and bought some Acoustic Research component cables (IIRC it was something like $30 for 2 meters...can't quite remember) and they were actually better than the generics. The AR cables provided better colors and less video noise/interference. However the VampireWire component video cables I recently ordered are even better than the Acoustic Research cables I bought previously. I immediately noticed less video noise with the VampireWire cables. Yes they were more expensive, but IMO they were worth it. I don't think I would ever buy $8000 cables though...

 

[TGregg]

Originally posted by: DPmaster
It all really depends on what kind of equipment you're using (HDTV or regular TV, progressive scan DVD player or non-progressive scan DVD player, etc.). If you're hooking up a $60 DVD player to a $250 TV then no it's not worth it. However, if you're already spending thousands on a high quality TV, DVD player, etc. then I would say YES. I did what some people here already stated, and used generic compositive cables as component cables from my TV to my Zektor HDS4 (component video switch). The picture quality from my DVD player and game consoles was OK but not great. I went out and bought some Acoustic Research component cables (IIRC it was something like $30 for 2 meters...can't quite remember) and they were actually better than the generics. The AR cables provided better colors and less video noise/interference. However the VampireWire component video cables I recently ordered are even better than the Acoustic Research cables I bought previously. I immediately noticed less video noise with the VampireWire cables. Yes they were more expensive, but IMO they were worth it. I don't think I would ever buy $8000 cables though...

Thanks DPMaster. Could you tell me, are you running 480p?

 

[DPmaster]

I'm running my DVD player, PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube all in 480P. My TV supports 1080i as well but there aren't many DVD players/games that take advantage of anything greater than 480P right now....eventually things will head that way though. You can buy the AR cables pretty much anywhere...I got mine at Best Buy. I got the VampireWire cables from www.copperbox.com for $44 (2 meter component video cable). It's a pretty good site to find home theater stuff. That's where I also got my component video switch as well.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: rh71
Right... it's either going to work or not. So don't waste money on expensive cables when $25 AR cables are sufficient. I personally use composite cables as my component cables and they're fine.

Yes, any 75 ohm coax terminated in RCA will carry component video. The yellow video cable for a composite connection is 75 ohm, so three of those would work.

However, component is an analog signal - There will be a quality difference.

Depending on the length I would pay $100 for good component interconnects.

I would much rather make myself a set of $100 cables, should easily outperform any $100 pre-built cable.

Viper GTS

Still can't believe it huh ? You don't recall participating in my thread half a year ago ? Many times ? I bought AR cables to compare and it was the same picture. I returned the AR cables. Believe me, I wanted to see a difference. Real bad. Maybe if I can afford $100 for just cables to see IF there is a slight difference, I'd do it.

Or maybe it's just because of my l33t Sony tv + dvd.

 

[amnesiac]

Also, as far as progressive output from DVD players goes, the deinterlacing chip of the DVD player (assuming you're not running the signal through a separate processor) makes a big difference.

My Onkyo DVCP-500 exhibits the infamous "chroma bug" and some mild line jitter with progressive out, so I found a place selling refurbed Denon AVR-1600's for $200. They use the Faroudja DCDi decoder which is a PHENOMENAL improvement.

My advice is to spend no more than 10% of your budget on cables. In my case, since my entire system has been purchased for roughly half retail cost, I'm sticking with Acoustic Research cables. They are more than adequate.

If you are of the school of thought that $100 or $1000 cables will be that much better than $10 or $25 cables, go ahead and spend your money.

 

[DPmaster]

Originally posted by: amnesiac
Also, as far as progressive output from DVD players goes, the deinterlacing chip of the DVD player (assuming you're not running the signal through a separate processor) makes a big difference.

My Onkyo DVCP-500 exhibits the infamous "chroma bug" and some mild line jitter with progressive out, so I found a place selling refurbed Denon AVR-1600's for $200. They use the Faroudja DCDi decoder which is a PHENOMENAL improvement.

My advice is to spend no more than 10% of your budget on cables. In my case, since my entire system has been purchased for roughly half retail cost, I'm sticking with Acoustic Research cables. They are more than adequate.

If you are of the school of thought that $100 or $1000 cables will be that much better than $10 or $25 cables, go ahead and spend your money.

amnesiac brings up a very good point. 10%-15% is a very good budget for something like interconnects. The performance gains on something like interconnects decrease exponentially as prices increase. It's like that with almost everything...a $643,000 Ferrari Enzo is just a few seconds faster in the 1/4 mile and 0-60 than a $28,000 Nissan 350Z. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want these cables though, or the Enzo for that matter .

 

[TC2181]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: rh71
Right... it's either going to work or not. So don't waste money on expensive cables when $25 AR cables are sufficient. I personally use composite cables as my component cables and they're fine.

Yes, any 75 ohm coax terminated in RCA will carry component video. The yellow video cable for a composite connection is 75 ohm, so three of those would work.

However, component is an analog signal - There will be a quality difference.

Depending on the length I would pay $100 for good component interconnects.

I would much rather make myself a set of $100 cables, should easily outperform any $100 pre-built cable.

Viper GTS

Still can't believe it huh ? You don't recall participating in my thread half a year ago ? Many times ? I bought AR cables to compare and it was the same picture. I returned the AR cables. Believe me, I wanted to see a difference. Real bad. Maybe if I can afford $100 for just cables to see IF there is a slight difference, I'd do it.

Or maybe it's just because of my l33t Sony tv + dvd.

I am using composite cables right now for an HDTV signal, as I don't have another set of component cables available yet. There IS a difference when you use composite. The whole picture is quite a bit "redder", and there is some artifacting.

 

[TGregg]

10% sounds kinda high. I bought a DVD VCR for $100, an AVR for $261 and probably will buy a new TV for ~$700. That's about a grand. The only cables I need are the components. And I think I'll just do one set (from the DVD/VCR to the TV). Since I don't have a center channel, I'd rather blow $100 on that.

But I certainly appreciate y'alls input. This stuff is amazingly confusing. ATM, seems like the best display for me is going to be a 1080i. We've got a small room to watch TV in, it's about 111 inches from the set to my eyeball. My current 27" (13 years old and scheduled for replacement during this upgrade) is low-rez enough that I can see the darn lines (although it is overscanning just a tad). So if 480p is going to be about the same rez, then forget it. Either I'll need to go with a smaller, 480p set - or go 1080i.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: TC2181

I am using composite cables right now for an HDTV signal, as I don't have another set of component cables available yet. There IS a difference when you use composite. The whole picture is quite a bit "redder", and there is some artifacting.

Speaking of Red, most people don't know that the majority of rear projection HDTV's have a flaw called "Red Push". For some reason out of the box most manufactures set the red by as much as 20-30% over the % of the green and blue. This leaves you with a high level of red in general (worst part is flesh tones not represented correctly). There's a couple solutions to fix these things.

1. you can get an "red push attenuator" from places like Radio Shaq, that you place between the red component cable and the TV. IT has a dial that allows you to adjust the level +/- of Red.

2. Go through your service menu and make the adjustments yourself. Generally this will need to be done by a professional using AVIA and hooking a laptop up to your TV.

This could contribute to the large amounts of Red you are seeing in any HDTV picture.

 

[Idex]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
The best cables i've found are Blue Jean Cables. They use the same cabling and ends that are used in production studios and cables that cost around $400. I ordered from on a Saturday and got the cables on a monday. They are THICK and very nice cables.

I feel like a sales person, but everyone I've talked to on HTSpot also loves them that uses them.

Ditto

 

[KingNothing]

Why does this get asked every week?

 

[TGregg]

Originally posted by: KingNothing
Why does this get asked every week?

If you would be so kind, please point me to the previous thread that discussed whether 480P was digital or analog.

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: TGregg

Originally posted by: KingNothing
Why does this get asked every week?

If you would be so kind, please point me to the previous thread that discussed whether 480P was digital or analog.

Not necessarily as to whether 480P is digital or analog, but there are several cable threads with some good information in them.

One such thread from 3 days ago: Cable Thread

 

[TC2181]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: TC2181

I am using composite cables right now for an HDTV signal, as I don't have another set of component cables available yet. There IS a difference when you use composite. The whole picture is quite a bit "redder", and there is some artifacting.

Speaking of Red, most people don't know that the majority of rear projection HDTV's have a flaw called "Red Push". For some reason out of the box most manufactures set the red by as much as 20-30% over the % of the green and blue. This leaves you with a high level of red in general (worst part is flesh tones not represented correctly). There's a couple solutions to fix these things.

1. you can get an "red push attenuator" from places like Radio Shaq, that you place between the red component cable and the TV. IT has a dial that allows you to adjust the level +/- of Red.

2. Go through your service menu and make the adjustments yourself. Generally this will need to be done by a professional using AVIA and hooking a laptop up to your TV.

This could contribute to the large amounts of Red you are seeing in any HDTV picture.

Thats a negative. It only happens when I use a cheap set of composite cables for my HDTV signal. I've already done the red push tweak for my television. (Panny 47" RPTV)

 

[TGregg]

I've talked to a Sony rep and checked a pretty techie website (forget the url, but it was UK), but I've got two different sources telling me 480p is digital. I gotta think that 480p is not going to be much of a big deal unless it is digital, and since it seems to be a big deal my hunch is that it is indeed digital and not analog. Here's the chat log from Sony:

Gilbert: Hello TGregg.
TGregg: Howdy Gilbert. Could you tell me if component video 480p is all digital, or is it transmitted analog?
TGregg: I'll wait if you need to check.
Gilbert: Which TV are you referring to TGregg?
TGregg: Heh, not a particular TV yet.
TGregg: Still learning about how all this HDTV stuff works.
TGregg: My question is, if y'all had a 480p digital input on a TV,
TGregg: would the signal be digital?
TGregg: Some folks are telling me 480p is analog.
Gilbert: Yes, it is digital.
TGregg: Some folks say digital.
TGregg: OK, thanks Gilbert.
TGregg: Hope yer having a nice New Year
Gilbert: Same to you TGregg.
Gilbert: Thank you for visiting SonyStyle.com. Please feel free to contact us for further assistance.
Gilbert: disconnected

Now I'm not completely doubting our fine minds here at AT. And I do thank everybody for their contributions to this thread. But I am wondering if indeed 480p is digital or analog. And probably being a bit anal about it. So let my apologize up front. But AT is the only place that I've heard that 480p is analog.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Yes, any 75 ohm coax terminated in RCA will carry component video. The yellow video cable for a composite connection is 75 ohm, so three of those would work.

However, component is an analog signal - There will be a quality difference.

you beat me to it. i was all set to go on a bitch-smacking marathon to punish people for thinking component signals are digital. they're analog, that's why tv's have DVI and firewire connectors these days.

 

[TGregg]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

you beat me to it. i was all set to go on a bitch-smacking marathon to punish people for thinking component signals are digital. they're analog, that's why tv's have DVI and firewire connectors these days.

Cool, you might have the references I need to figure this out. What is DVI? I've heard somebody else mention this. And, do you have a link that defines 480p?

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

As with most newer televisions the image is processed digitally. You are still limited, however, to the connection from the DVD to the monitor. 480p is natively digital, but it is converted to analog before being sent through the component cables. If you want a true digital to digital connection, you need a digital output on the DVD player and a DVI or HDMI input on the television.

 

[TGregg]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
As with most newer televisions the image is processed digitally. You are still limited, however, to the connection from the DVD to the monitor. 480p is natively digital, but it is converted to analog before being sent through the component cables. If you want a true digital to digital connection, you need a digital output on the DVD player and a DVI or HDMI input on the television.

So, I got a DVD, it's all digital. And a player, that reads the digital. And a TV (well not yet, but very soon), that displays digital. But I get to pay for a digital to analog converter on the DVD player so the signal can degrade over the xmit to the TV (the very spot I most need it digital), then pay for another analog-digital converter. In other words, I get to pay for more electronics that degrade my picture. Geez

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: TGregg
I've talked to a Sony rep and checked a pretty techie website (forget the url, but it was UK), but I've got two different sources telling me 480p is digital. I gotta think that 480p is not going to be much of a big deal unless it is digital, and since it seems to be a big deal my hunch is that it is indeed digital and not analog. Here's the chat log from Sony:

Gilbert: Hello TGregg.
TGregg: Howdy Gilbert. Could you tell me if component video 480p is all digital, or is it transmitted analog?
TGregg: I'll wait if you need to check.
Gilbert: Which TV are you referring to TGregg?
TGregg: Heh, not a particular TV yet.
TGregg: Still learning about how all this HDTV stuff works.
TGregg: My question is, if y'all had a 480p digital input on a TV,
TGregg: would the signal be digital?
TGregg: Some folks are telling me 480p is analog.
Gilbert: Yes, it is digital.
TGregg: Some folks say digital.
TGregg: OK, thanks Gilbert.
TGregg: Hope yer having a nice New Year
Gilbert: Same to you TGregg.
Gilbert: Thank you for visiting SonyStyle.com. Please feel free to contact us for further assistance.
Gilbert: disconnected

Now I'm not completely doubting our fine minds here at AT. And I do thank everybody for their contributions to this thread. But I am wondering if indeed 480p is digital or analog. And probably being a bit anal about it. So let my apologize up front. But AT is the only place that I've heard that 480p is analog.

he either misunderstood your question, was wrong, or lied.

480p comes from sources that are digital. for instance, HDTV, DVD, that kind of thing. Regular TV is sent in interlaced form, so you'll never see the old analog transmissions in progressive form. HOWEVER: the conversion from digital to analog is done BEFORE the signal is sent to the TV. Composite, S-Video, and Component cables all carry the decoded analog signal. The only digital connections (that I know of) are DVI and firewire. There may be other digital connections, but component is not one of them. For digital connections, your TV does the decoding, much the way most surround-sound setups have the receiver doing the digital decoding for CD's and DVD's. But in the old days of surround sound, the DVD players did the decoding and you had to hook 6 cables up to your reciever, one for each channel. That's exactly what's going on with component cables, you have one for each color channel, all analog.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: TGregg

Originally posted by: thomsbrain

you beat me to it. i was all set to go on a bitch-smacking marathon to punish people for thinking component signals are digital. they're analog, that's why tv's have DVI and firewire connectors these days.

Cool, you might have the references I need to figure this out. What is DVI? I've heard somebody else mention this. And, do you have a link that defines 480p?

480p is a display format. It defines the resolution and format (progressive or interlaced) that is rendered to the screen. It has nothing to do with digital or analog. A DVD will always be processed in a digital format, regardless of the television and cables. I think this is what that Gilbert person was referring as "digital."

1) The image is processed in digital inside the DVD.
2) The image is then sent to the television as an analog signal (component cables) or digital signal (DVI or HDMI). The DVD player must have a digital output on the back in order to support DVI or HDMI. If the DVD players supports 480p, it will most likely have a digital out.
3) The television will then display the image as analog or digital, depending on the television age and technology.

 

[thomsbrain]

Originally posted by: TGregg

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
As with most newer televisions the image is processed digitally. You are still limited, however, to the connection from the DVD to the monitor. 480p is natively digital, but it is converted to analog before being sent through the component cables. If you want a true digital to digital connection, you need a digital output on the DVD player and a DVI or HDMI input on the television.

So, I got a DVD, it's all digital. And a player, that reads the digital. And a TV (well not yet, but very soon), that displays digital. But I get to pay for a digital to analog converter on the DVD player so the signal can degrade over the xmit to the TV (the very spot I most need it digital), then pay for another analog-digital converter. In other words, I get to pay for more electronics that degrade my picture. Geez

that's exactly right. pretty lame huh? it's the product of the move to digital happening on two different fronts at two different times. we got DVD before we got HDTV.

anyway, DVI is the same connector as on DVI computer displays, like for newer LCD's. most video cards have DVI output and either a seperate 15-pin connector for analog, or an adapter. i don't know if you can just hook a computer up to an HDTV like that, as i'm no expert, but it's the same connector. i've heard they use firewire on some of the newer satillite recievers, but again, i'm no expert on digital connections so don't quote me on it.

 

[TGregg]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain


that's exactly right. pretty lame huh? it's the product of the move to digital happening on two different fronts at two different times. we got DVD before we got HDTV.

anyway, DVI is the same connector as on DVI computer displays, like for newer LCD's. most video cards have DVI output and either a seperate 15-pin connector for analog, or an adapter. i don't know if you can just hook a computer up to an HDTV like that, as i'm no expert, but it's the same connector. i've heard they use firewire on some of the newer satillite recievers, but again, i'm no expert on digital connections so don't quote me on it.

Well crap. I guess that explains why this has been so confusing, the industry doesn't want to promote the idea that we've all been paying extra to mess up our picture quality. Thanks to all posters for their help, I've learned a lot. Are there DVD/VCR players with DVI out? Even if it's just DVD on the DVI (and regular AV on the VCR). And, are there 27" TVs (or monitors) with DVI in for under a grand?

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: TGregg

Originally posted by: thomsbrain


that's exactly right. pretty lame huh? it's the product of the move to digital happening on two different fronts at two different times. we got DVD before we got HDTV.

anyway, DVI is the same connector as on DVI computer displays, like for newer LCD's. most video cards have DVI output and either a seperate 15-pin connector for analog, or an adapter. i don't know if you can just hook a computer up to an HDTV like that, as i'm no expert, but it's the same connector. i've heard they use firewire on some of the newer satillite recievers, but again, i'm no expert on digital connections so don't quote me on it.

Well crap. I guess that explains why this has been so confusing, the industry doesn't want to promote the idea that we've all been paying extra to mess up our picture quality. Thanks to all posters for their help, I've learned a lot. Are there DVD/VCR players with DVI out? Even if it's just DVD on the DVI (and regular AV on the VCR). And, are there 27" TVs (or monitors) with DVI in for under a grand?

The component interface is very high quality, there is no need (on a budget at least) to invest in a TV & DVD player that support DVI. Yes, there is at least one DVD player (That I know of) that has a DVI connection, and there are lots of TV's with DVI connectors. I doubt you'll find one in your price range.

Get a decent HD ready TV & DVD player, get quality component cables, & then do what most people neglect - Calibrate your TV.

You'll love the results.

Viper GTS