HR45 ? More feel good gun control legislation sponsored by the Democrats

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.

That's just it, those city folk that are having their babies murdered by the dozens don't want to wake up and understand that the gun is a tool, it didn't kill anyone. A person by choice caused that death.
All of these inner city youths that are choir boys and never did a bad thing in their life didn't choose to be in gangs and get involved in criminal activities, it's the gun's fault and since these parent(s) can't raise their children properly they want to punish everyone else.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Originally posted by: Citrix
* Provides for inspection of your home (fourth amendment violation)
* Notice of change of address

Note, I did not verify the veracity of this post, but these two items I am against.

Inspection of my house, I will happily sue those law enforcement agencies who try it. Win or lose, it will be bad press for them.

Change of address, bah they can cross reference the IRS database which keeps track of me pretty darn well.

I have no problem being required to take a test to own a firearm, however it should be no different then the one required to get a driving license. Once taken, it counts for virtually forever.

It's not like getting a driver's license at all. You don't need a license to own a vehicle, you need a license to use it on public roads. The same is already true for firearms. In the states that have conceal carry, the state requires a license to carry your firearm publicly. It's up to the state's discretion to decide what kind of testing requirements there are.

I am aware that the one is a usage license (driving) and one would be an ownership license (gun). I was stating that once you pass your book knowledge test in driving then it is virtually good forever. Once you pass your license to owning a gun, that test should last you virtually forever (unless you done screwed up bad there sonny).


As a Republican, I am against large Federal government and I am pro local/State jurisdiction laws. However, you bring up a great topic on concealed carry and how interstate laws don't apply. The amount of laws that don't cross state boundries when it comes to gun control is amazing. As a gun owner I would be scared crazy before even thinking of taking my rifle across state lines. As such, I am actually for a standardized Federal law as far as gun requirements, permits, and allowances are concerned (same goes for driving licenses as well as car inspections... things that cross State lines should be Federally enforced).

WOAH there. Ever heard of the 10th Amendment? Any power not given to the Federal Government under the Constitution is relegated to the individual states. There are no provissions in the Constitution for licencing of anything, which is why we have State issued Drivers Licenses and State issued ID's.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: NeoV
"Please, how will this or any legislation take guns out of hands of folks who will use them primarily for a crime, as suggested by your second scenario?"

Therein lies the real problems with the United States current set of gun laws - it's easy for criminals to get guns because private sales are allowed to take place with no regulation. John Doe - clean criminal record and all, can walk into a gun store, buy 100 guns - because few states have any restrictions whatsoever on how many guns you can buy/own, go down the street, and sell the guns to his criminal-record holding associates at a profit.

Criminals don't magically create guns. They buy them in transactions like this, or they steal them, often from other criminals.

Any restriction on the number of guns people are allowed to purchase causes the pro-gun crowd to come out in full force though, so it's doubtful any legislation ever passes that has any impact whatsoever on the easy access criminals have to guns in this country, and our rates of violent crime involving guns will continue to be much more like a third world country than a modern, civilized country.

By limiting or eliminating peoples access to guns, you are treating a symptom no the disease.
If these politicians spent as much time and money on fighting guns, as they did on fighting the cause of the CRIME that the guns are used it, the problem would go away.

There's so much proof in the world that gun bans and restrictions do not curtail criminal violence. Take away the guns, criminals start using knives. Then you start regulating knives, like England is doing. Soon, they will regulate everything and you won't be able to buy a ball point pen without getting a full body cavity search and a criminal record run on you.

So many people miss the point about gun control, it's ultimate goal isn't to curb violence, it's a tool for politicans to use to inject fear into people, because people that are scared are more willing to give up rights to "feel" safe, thus handing more power to those in charge.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Topic Title: HR45 ? More feel good gun control legislation sponsored by the Democrats

Topic Summary: i swear dems are communist in sheeps clothing

Seriously, anyone who screams "communist" is a brainless know-nothing whose opinion isn't worthy of reading, let alone serious comment. :thumbsdown:

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: NeoV
"Please, how will this or any legislation take guns out of hands of folks who will use them primarily for a crime, as suggested by your second scenario?"

Therein lies the real problems with the United States current set of gun laws - it's easy for criminals to get guns because private sales are allowed to take place with no regulation. John Doe - clean criminal record and all, can walk into a gun store, buy 100 guns - because few states have any restrictions whatsoever on how many guns you can buy/own, go down the street, and sell the guns to his criminal-record holding associates at a profit.

Criminals don't magically create guns. They buy them in transactions like this, or they steal them, often from other criminals.

Any restriction on the number of guns people are allowed to purchase causes the pro-gun crowd to come out in full force though, so it's doubtful any legislation ever passes that has any impact whatsoever on the easy access criminals have to guns in this country, and our rates of violent crime involving guns will continue to be much more like a third world country than a modern, civilized country.

Do you know that the ATF gets information whenever a purchase of 2 more guns takes place? If person goes and buy 100 guns, all 100 are marked on a form with model and serial number and sent to the ATF who then follows up on it.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
WOAH there. Ever heard of the 10th Amendment? Any power not given to the Federal Government under the Constitution is relegated to the individual states. There are no provissions in the Constitution for licencing of anything, which is why we have State issued Drivers Licenses and State issued ID's.

That is easy enough to fix if they wanted to.

 

[Deeko]

A) This will never pass as written
B) The OP's summary is about as fucking stupid as anything that's ever been posted on these forums.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

Originally posted by: NeoV
---snip---
our rates of violent crime involving guns will continue to be much more like a third world country than a modern, civilized country.

So long as our gini coefficient continues to track on pace with that of third world nations, so will our violent crime rates regardless of whatever useless gun laws are put into place. Laws only affect those that follow them and desperate times often call for "circumvention" of said laws for self preservation.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.

The folk whose kids are getting killed by them, in large, are getting killed by illegal weapons. How is searching my home going to fix that? I do not own any stolen firearms.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.

The folk whose kids are getting killed by them, in large, are getting killed by illegal weapons. How is searching my home going to fix that? I do not own any stolen firearms.

I don't know if you've thought your question through, but I'm betting that folk whose kids are getting shot don't much care if your searched with a proctoscope.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.

The folk whose kids are getting killed by them, in large, are getting killed by illegal weapons. How is searching my home going to fix that? I do not own any stolen firearms.

I don't know if you've thought your question through, but I'm betting that folk whose kids are getting shot don't much care if your searched with a proctoscope.

True. They should be caring about the people shooting at them.

Oh, wait, neighbors in poor areas wont rat out the murderers due to "street code".

Just blame guns.

 

[MovingTarget]

404 Communism not found. Totalitarianism? Maybe.

Please let us know if this ever makes it out of committee. I doubt that it would though. The Dems don't want to spend their political capital on this one right now. Besides, it is very likely that SCOTUS would strike it down if it ever got signed into law.

 

[Kwatt]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.

The folk whose kids are getting killed by them, in large, are getting killed by illegal weapons. How is searching my home going to fix that? I do not own any stolen firearms.

I read the bill and did not find anything about searching your home unless you are running a firearms business from it.
The only thing I found about searching was a business's location.



SEC. 403. INSPECTIONS.

In order to ascertain compliance with this Act, the amendments made by this Act, and the regulations and orders issued under this Act, the Attorney General may, during regular business hours, enter any place in which firearms or firearm products are manufactured, stored, or held, for distribution in commerce, and inspect those areas where the products are so manufactured, stored, or held.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Citrix

Topic Title: HR45 ? More feel good gun control legislation sponsored by the Democrats

Topic Summary: i swear dems are communist in sheeps clothing

Seriously, anyone who screams "communist" is a brainless know-nothing whose opinion isn't worthy of reading, let alone serious comment. :thumbsdown:

Seriously? You, of all people, are complaining about someone using over the top rhetoric? If this was a Republican trying to touch any other amendment you'd have already filled up the first 2 pages of this thread with hate filled anti Republican macros. What a hypocrite.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
404 Communism not found. Totalitarianism? Maybe.

Please let us know if this ever makes it out of committee. I doubt that it would though. The Dems don't want to spend their political capital on this one right now. Besides, it is very likely that SCOTUS would strike it down if it ever got signed into law.

Why people spend so much time and energy being enraged about things that are so unlikely to become reality is beyond me.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.

The folk whose kids are getting killed by them, in large, are getting killed by illegal weapons. How is searching my home going to fix that? I do not own any stolen firearms.

I don't know if you've thought your question through, but I'm betting that folk whose kids are getting shot don't much care if your searched with a proctoscope.

Logic, not emotion, should dictate a course of action.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.

The folk whose kids are getting killed by them, in large, are getting killed by illegal weapons. How is searching my home going to fix that? I do not own any stolen firearms.

I don't know if you've thought your question through, but I'm betting that folk whose kids are getting shot don't much care if your searched with a proctoscope.

Logic, not emotion, should dictate a course of action.

It's perfectly logical once you understand gun grabbers MO. slowly chip away here and there, creating an negative image of guns among our increasing urban voters, who are unfortunately besieged by unlawful guns, for the eventual ban. Handgun control Inc pres in the 70's even writes about it. I'll see if I can find link but the bottom line is they don't want guns so 1%ers can really control population.

 

[NeoV]

Bruno - you said "Do you know that the ATF gets information whenever a purchase of 2 more guns takes place? If person goes and buy 100 guns, all 100 are marked on a form with model and serial number and sent to the ATF who then follows up on it."

How about reality vs theory? By law, gun dealers are 'supposed' to notify the ATF, but there is no penalty for them not doing so, and in practice, less than 5% of such purchases are ever reported to the ATF - which doesn't have the manpower or the authority to do much about it anyhow.

Wow - our first 'gini coefficient' comment in a gun thread in quite a while - someone's trying to be impressive - too bad it has nothing to do with gun violence.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Bruno - you said "Do you know that the ATF gets information whenever a purchase of 2 more guns takes place? If person goes and buy 100 guns, all 100 are marked on a form with model and serial number and sent to the ATF who then follows up on it."

How about reality vs theory? By law, gun dealers are 'supposed' to notify the ATF, but there is no penalty for them not doing so, and in practice, less than 5% of such purchases are ever reported to the ATF - which doesn't have the manpower or the authority to do much about it anyhow.

Wow - our first 'gini coefficient' comment in a gun thread in quite a while - someone's trying to be impressive - too bad it has nothing to do with gun violence.

Are you smoking crack?

Every purchase is called in/verified before it can be released. Be it 1 or 100.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: NeoV
Bruno - you said "Do you know that the ATF gets information whenever a purchase of 2 more guns takes place? If person goes and buy 100 guns, all 100 are marked on a form with model and serial number and sent to the ATF who then follows up on it."

How about reality vs theory? By law, gun dealers are 'supposed' to notify the ATF, but there is no penalty for them not doing so, and in practice, less than 5% of such purchases are ever reported to the ATF - which doesn't have the manpower or the authority to do much about it anyhow.

Wow - our first 'gini coefficient' comment in a gun thread in quite a while - someone's trying to be impressive - too bad it has nothing to do with gun violence.

There are federal criminal penalties for failure to file. Like the 10 years in federal prison kind. Where you getting that there is no penalty?

The ATF does compliance audits every day. You can't get away with not doing your paperwork. You may be able to for a while, but you WILL get audited at some point. They know who has the licenses. Agents are responsible for so many a year. And everything has to match up.

They don't even allow you to abbreviate on the form or make misspellings. They sure are going to be on your ass for not filing forms.

Also, the multiple handgun purchase (Form 3310.4) has to be sent to state law enforcement as well.

Edit: And they use it to prosecute cases all the time. Multiple handguns of the same model, or multiple guns that are "cheap" are usually used as evidence.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: NeoV
Bruno - you said "Do you know that the ATF gets information whenever a purchase of 2 more guns takes place? If person goes and buy 100 guns, all 100 are marked on a form with model and serial number and sent to the ATF who then follows up on it."

How about reality vs theory? By law, gun dealers are 'supposed' to notify the ATF, but there is no penalty for them not doing so, and in practice, less than 5% of such purchases are ever reported to the ATF - which doesn't have the manpower or the authority to do much about it anyhow.

Wow - our first 'gini coefficient' comment in a gun thread in quite a while - someone's trying to be impressive - too bad it has nothing to do with gun violence.

Are you smoking crack?

Every purchase is called in/verified before it can be released. Be it 1 or 100.

I just bought a used tactical shotgun at the Ft Worth Gun show last weekend. The only requirement I had to fulfill was showing my driver's license to the dealer at the table. No paperwork, no nothing...Come to think of it, I probably should have asked for a receipt.

I guess this gun is still registered to someone else??? mmmm....

Edit: not sure if this would be considered a private sale or not since the shotgun was used...

 

[b0mbrman]

Why worry about a bill that won't get anywhere near the floor for a vote?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Why worry about a bill that won't get anywhere near the floor for a vote?

because some asshat senator wrote this bill. that alone is very concerning. it seems like every time we turn around some asshat elected official is trying to take our rights away and we have to fight to keep them. our government is turning against us people.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: NeoV
Bruno - you said "Do you know that the ATF gets information whenever a purchase of 2 more guns takes place? If person goes and buy 100 guns, all 100 are marked on a form with model and serial number and sent to the ATF who then follows up on it."

How about reality vs theory? By law, gun dealers are 'supposed' to notify the ATF, but there is no penalty for them not doing so, and in practice, less than 5% of such purchases are ever reported to the ATF - which doesn't have the manpower or the authority to do much about it anyhow.

Wow - our first 'gini coefficient' comment in a gun thread in quite a while - someone's trying to be impressive - too bad it has nothing to do with gun violence.

Are you smoking crack?

Every purchase is called in/verified before it can be released. Be it 1 or 100.

errr wrong, that is not correct.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Why worry about a bill that won't get anywhere near the floor for a vote?

because some asshat senator wrote this bill. that alone is very concerning. it seems like every time we turn around some asshat elected official is trying to take our rights away and we have to fight to keep them. our government is turning against us people.

If you're going to freak out every time someone in government even proposes something you don't like, you're not going to have time for much else... so just from a personal productivity standpoint you might want to be a little more discerning.