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HR45 ? More feel good gun control legislation sponsored by the Democrats

OutHouse

OutHouse

Lifer
seriously what is it with democrats and wanting to take rights away from lawful citizens of our country? this shit is really pissing me off.

http://digg.com/politics/Dem_s...e_Gun_Control?FC=PRCT9

http://www.themindoftefft.com/...ored-by-the-democrats/

t?s that time of year again. Another House Resolution designed to further erode our 2nd amendment rights is being introduced by Democratic Congressman Bobby Rush of Illinois. HR45, also called Blair Holt?s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, is another bill designed to make it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain a firearm while doing nothing to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals.

You can read the details of the resolution here but a few of the highlights are:

* It will be ?unlawful? to own a firearm without a license.
* Be required to submit a picture and thumbprint.
* Provide certification that the firearms are properly stored.
* Pass a written firearms exam which tests a persons knowledge of the safe storage of firearms in the presence of children, safe handling of firearms, risks associated with firearms, legal responsibilities of a firearm owner, and anything else the Attorney General deems fit.
* A release of any mental health records.
* Makes private sales illegal.
* Establishes a Federal Record of Sale system which records make, model, serial number, license of the transferee and name and address of the transferor.
* Provides for inspection of your home (fourth amendment violation)
* Reporting of lost or stolen firearms
* Notice of change of address
* Numerous other fun nuggets.
 
Jesus this is bad legislation. Not all of it, but these points:

* It will be ?unlawful? to own a firearm without a license. (What kind of license exactly? Are they going to create new legislation for an owners license?)
* Provide certification that the firearms are properly stored. (MY gun. MY choice how I store it.)
* Makes private sales illegal.
* Establishes a Federal Record of Sale system which records make, model, serial number, license of the transferee and name and address of the transferor.
* Notice of change of address

Fuck that.
 
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.
Click to expand...

I guarantee that Mr. Rush has armed bodyguards in both DC and Chicago.
 
I predict another winning thread that exactly mirrors the bullet serialization thread in every way shape and form. After page 2 no arguments will be about the original topic, they will all revolve around the constitutional right to bear arms versus the dangers of guns debate. As someone who has 0 interest in this topic one way or another it does provide occasional entertainment to read.

*queu relating my lack of interest in this topic to me not caring about the constitution and/or the children depending on the person.



 
Originally posted by: Citrix
* Provides for inspection of your home (fourth amendment violation)
* Notice of change of address
Click to expand...

Note, I did not verify the veracity of this post, but these two items I am against.

Inspection of my house, I will happily sue those law enforcement agencies who try it. Win or lose, it will be bad press for them.

Change of address, bah they can cross reference the IRS database which keeps track of me pretty darn well.

I have no problem being required to take a test to own a firearm, however it should be no different then the one required to get a driving license. Once taken, it counts for virtually forever.

 
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Originally posted by: Citrix
* Provides for inspection of your home (fourth amendment violation)
* Notice of change of address
Click to expand...

Note, I did not verify the veracity of this post, but these two items I am against.

Inspection of my house, I will happily sue those law enforcement agencies who try it. Win or lose, it will be bad press for them.

Change of address, bah they can cross reference the IRS database which keeps track of me pretty darn well.

I have no problem being required to take a test to own a firearm, however it should be no different then the one required to get a driving license. Once taken, it counts for virtually forever.
Click to expand...

It's not like getting a driver's license at all. You don't need a license to own a vehicle, you need a license to use it on public roads. The same is already true for firearms. In the states that have conceal carry, the state requires a license to carry your firearm publicly. It's up to the state's discretion to decide what kind of testing requirements there are.
 
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Originally posted by: Citrix
* Provides for inspection of your home (fourth amendment violation)
* Notice of change of address
Click to expand...

Note, I did not verify the veracity of this post, but these two items I am against.

Inspection of my house, I will happily sue those law enforcement agencies who try it. Win or lose, it will be bad press for them.

Change of address, bah they can cross reference the IRS database which keeps track of me pretty darn well.

I have no problem being required to take a test to own a firearm, however it should be no different then the one required to get a driving license. Once taken, it counts for virtually forever.
Click to expand...

It's not like getting a driver's license at all. You don't need a license to own a vehicle, you need a license to use it on public roads. The same is already true for firearms. In the states that have conceal carry, the state requires a license to carry your firearm publicly. It's up to the state's discretion to decide what kind of testing requirements there are.
Click to expand...

I am aware that the one is a usage license (driving) and one would be an ownership license (gun). I was stating that once you pass your book knowledge test in driving then it is virtually good forever. Once you pass your license to owning a gun, that test should last you virtually forever (unless you done screwed up bad there sonny).


As a Republican, I am against large Federal government and I am pro local/State jurisdiction laws. However, you bring up a great topic on concealed carry and how interstate laws don't apply. The amount of laws that don't cross state boundries when it comes to gun control is amazing. As a gun owner I would be scared crazy before even thinking of taking my rifle across state lines. As such, I am actually for a standardized Federal law as far as gun requirements, permits, and allowances are concerned (same goes for driving licenses as well as car inspections... things that cross State lines should be Federally enforced).
 
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
As such, I am actually for a standardized Federal law as far as gun requirements, permits, and allowances are concerned (same goes for driving licenses as well as car inspections... things that cross State lines should be Federally enforced).
Click to expand...

So would you force California to follow Texas law, or Texas to follow California law?
 
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Inspection of my house, I will happily sue those law enforcement agencies who try it. Win or lose, it will be bad press for them.
Click to expand...

You think they really care. Look at your time wasted, property damage, rights broken, all for nothing. You sue law enforcement, you are taking money out of your own pocket.

It's as bad as fighting tickets.


Originally posted by: blackangst1


* It will be ?unlawful? to own a firearm without a license. (What kind of license exactly? Are they going to create new legislation for an owners license?)
Fuck that.
Click to expand...

It is going to be like other acts where you need a license but they don't make them.


Like I said before fuck this government, they need to all be impeached and start out again from scratch without the parties, in bed with every company, and be normal people that their legislation effects.


Originally posted by: TallBill


It's not like getting a driver's license at all. You don't need a license to own a vehicle, you need a license to use it on public roads. The same is already true for firearms. In the states that have conceal carry, the state requires a license to carry your firearm publicly. It's up to the state's discretion to decide what kind of testing requirements there are.
Click to expand...

Conceal carried is a joke as well. Open carry is legal but the Cops will arrest and give you tickets for it (disturbing the peace etc). Yet they would rather you carry it concealed so no one knows about it including them, how does that make sense at all?

 
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
As such, I am actually for a standardized Federal law as far as gun requirements, permits, and allowances are concerned (same goes for driving licenses as well as car inspections... things that cross State lines should be Federally enforced).
Click to expand...

So would you force California to follow Texas law, or Texas to follow California law?
Click to expand...

I would force Texas and California to follow Federal Law as far as those items are concerned.
 
Originally posted by: mooseracing
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak

Inspection of my house, I will happily sue those law enforcement agencies who try it. Win or lose, it will be bad press for them.
Click to expand...

You think they really care. Look at your time wasted, property damage, rights broken, all for nothing. You sue law enforcement, you are taking money out of your own pocket.

It's as bad as fighting tickets.


Originally posted by: blackangst1


* It will be ?unlawful? to own a firearm without a license. (What kind of license exactly? Are they going to create new legislation for an owners license?)
Fuck that.
Click to expand...

It is going to be like other acts where you need a license but they don't make them.


Like I said before fuck this government, they need to all be impeached and start out again from scratch without the parties, in bed with every company, and be normal people that their legislation effects.


Originally posted by: TallBill


It's not like getting a driver's license at all. You don't need a license to own a vehicle, you need a license to use it on public roads. The same is already true for firearms. In the states that have conceal carry, the state requires a license to carry your firearm publicly. It's up to the state's discretion to decide what kind of testing requirements there are.
Click to expand...

Conceal carried is a joke as well. Open carry is legal but the Cops will arrest and give you tickets for it (disturbing the peace etc). Yet they would rather you carry it concealed so no one knows about it including them, how does that make sense at all?
Click to expand...

Not here in Phoenix. Open carry is *fairly* common.
 
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
As a Republican, I am against large Federal government and I am pro local/State jurisdiction laws. However, you bring up a great topic on concealed carry and how interstate laws don't apply. The amount of laws that don't cross state boundries when it comes to gun control is amazing. As a gun owner I would be scared crazy before even thinking of taking my rifle across state lines. As such, I am actually for a standardized Federal law as far as gun requirements, permits, and allowances are concerned (same goes for driving licenses as well as car inspections... things that cross State lines should be Federally enforced).
Click to expand...

The problem is that every state is different with respects to how a law would affect the citizens. For example, if you live in the Dakotas, crossing the borders with a gun probably isn't a big deal since the ranches are very expansive. On the other hand, crossing between New York and New Jersey is much different.

Second, a good majority of states recognize the same carry and conceal laws. For example, my Georgia firearms license gives me the same rights in about 30 states which exceptions like CA, NY, OH, and IL.s
 
Seems like a waste of time. It won't be long before Obama gets appoint a few anti-second amendment SC justices. Then gun rights will be crushed for a few generations.
 
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.
Click to expand...

I guarantee that Mr. Rush has armed bodyguards in both DC and Chicago.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with what I said other than nothing?
 
Originally posted by: palehorse
Please let us know if this thing ever makes it out of sub-committee...
Click to expand...

I'm going to be keeping an eye on it, but Ocguy31 is right. It's generally a kill zone for bills.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: TallBill
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.
Click to expand...

I guarantee that Mr. Rush has armed bodyguards in both DC and Chicago.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with what I said other than nothing?
Click to expand...

Because he's the representative from Chicago and works in DC, where he appeals to people losing family members to gun violence but has no problem using guns for his own protection.

Your rural crap is dead wrong, if anything I'd rather have a gun for protection in a city where my chances of encountering violence are much greater.
 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to say it again. How you see guns and gun regulation depends on whether you depend on guns for protection in a rural setting or are getting shot or held up by them in a city. Count on folk whose kids are getting killed by them to seek their control or elimination.
Click to expand...

Please, how will this or any legislation take guns out of hands of folks who will use them primarily for a crime, as suggested by your second scenario?
 
Originally posted by: Citrix
seriously what is it with democrats and wanting to take rights away from lawful citizens of our country? this shit is really pissing me off.

http://digg.com/politics/Dem_s...e_Gun_Control?FC=PRCT9

http://www.themindoftefft.com/...ored-by-the-democrats/

t?s that time of year again. Another House Resolution designed to further erode our 2nd amendment rights is being introduced by Democratic Congressman Bobby Rush of Illinois. HR45, also called Blair Holt?s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, is another bill designed to make it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain a firearm while doing nothing to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals.

You can read the details of the resolution here but a few of the highlights are:

* It will be ?unlawful? to own a firearm without a license.
* Be required to submit a picture and thumbprint.
* Provide certification that the firearms are properly stored.
* Pass a written firearms exam which tests a persons knowledge of the safe storage of firearms in the presence of children, safe handling of firearms, risks associated with firearms, legal responsibilities of a firearm owner, and anything else the Attorney General deems fit.
* A release of any mental health records.
* Makes private sales illegal.
* Establishes a Federal Record of Sale system which records make, model, serial number, license of the transferee and name and address of the transferor.
* Provides for inspection of your home (fourth amendment violation)
* Reporting of lost or stolen firearms
* Notice of change of address
* Numerous other fun nuggets.
Click to expand...

Chicken little making much ado about nothing until if and when it ever gets out of committee.
 
Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Chicken little making much ado about nothing until if and when it ever gets out of committee.
Click to expand...

The real story is how idiotic it is of Rush to even introduce this bill. Is he doing it because that's what he actually believes (doubtful) or because that's what his constituents will gobble up?
 
"Please, how will this or any legislation take guns out of hands of folks who will use them primarily for a crime, as suggested by your second scenario?"

Therein lies the real problems with the United States current set of gun laws - it's easy for criminals to get guns because private sales are allowed to take place with no regulation. John Doe - clean criminal record and all, can walk into a gun store, buy 100 guns - because few states have any restrictions whatsoever on how many guns you can buy/own, go down the street, and sell the guns to his criminal-record holding associates at a profit.

Criminals don't magically create guns. They buy them in transactions like this, or they steal them, often from other criminals.

Any restriction on the number of guns people are allowed to purchase causes the pro-gun crowd to come out in full force though, so it's doubtful any legislation ever passes that has any impact whatsoever on the easy access criminals have to guns in this country, and our rates of violent crime involving guns will continue to be much more like a third world country than a modern, civilized country.
 
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