HPNA "works" with DSL, but does it cause slow downs?

[gimlids]

I have Ameritech DSL (Speedpath 768) but the max. speed I reach is about 40 KBs or 320 Kbps. I have a Linksys HPRO200 HomePNA Router with 1 other computer on the hpna segment of the network. My DSL modem is plugged into one of the HPNA ports of the Router, for convenience sake because of where the equipment is and where the phone jack is. What's going on? I don't remember the speed being any different when the modem was plugged directly into the wall. I'd really like to fix this soon, or determine it to be unfixable before my 30 day cancel period is over.

Thanks!

 

[rw120555]

I don't understand, what is an "HPNA port" and how would a DSL modem plug into it? On my netgear rp334 (which I beleive is similar to the Linksys) I have three ethernet ports and two phone line jacks and an internet port for the dsl. DSL plugs into its port, a phone cord connects the router to the wall outlet, and PCS off in the distance work fine with hpna. Internet wise, I can't tell any difference between my ethernet-connected machines and my hpna machines, so I'm thinking that either (a) you have a problem with your configuration, or (b) a problem with your router. Maybe you could elaborate a bit on just what your equipment is like and how you have it set up.

 

[gimlids]

My Linksys router has the following ports: WAN, LAN, (2) HPNA, and Phone. My understanding of the HPNA ports on the router are that they (1) daisy chain hpna devices and (2) relay an signal given them throughout the phone grid. In fact, the router is connected to the wall through one of it's hpna ports, and the other has the dsl modem plugged into it. It works this way, which is logistically convenient. I know this is hard to understand if you don't have the Linksys router. It works, and I don't think there is a problem with the router, although it sometimes trips when connecting via PPPoE, it's just the speed that's a problem. Any ideas on what might be going on and/or how to improve my speed and/or convince Ameritech to double bandwidth like AT&T did?

Cable is rated 4 times as fast, is *actually* 8 times as fast, and will be $10 less a month after 1 year of this DSL. Only problem is my mother doesn't want a teensy weensy CAT5 cable across the family room where the cable jack is, so I want to get as much out of DSL as I can!

EDIT: Oh, maybe this clarifies, the DSL modem is connected to the Router with CAT5, but is also connected to one of the Router's phoneline ports so as to get access to the phoneline where it can connect to my DSL service.

 

[rw120555]

Ok, I think I got it. There is no reason the DSL has to be plugged into an "HPNA port" (which is basically a fancy name for a phone jack) but you are doing so because it is convenient, i.e. both the router and the dsl need to be connected to a wall outlet so you're using the router as a connector. But, if you had 2 phone jacks, you wouldn't need to do that. Sound right, or am I still missing something?

My dsl and homepna happen to be on different phone lines. With your setup, I wonder if there is some potential problem with the fact that you either have or don't have a dsl filter on the line. With our dsl, the dsl connects directly to the phone jack, and any other phones using the same line are supposed to have filters attached. So, if you do have a filter on this line, maybe the dsl is not getting what it needs; and if you don't have a filter, maybe that is creating static that interferes with the hpna.

So, what I am thinking is, try to reconfigure your phone cord setup. If you don't have a separate jack handy, get a 2-way adapter that connects to the wall. Then, one line goes filter-free to the dsl. The other goes with DSL filter to the router.

Not sure if this makes sense, but the key thing is to try different phone cord setups and see if one works. I'm curious, let me know if you get anywhere. Good luck.

 

[rw120555]

I just looked at a picture of the Linksys. You might also try plugging the dsl into the Phone jack rather than an HPNA jack. The phone jack has a microfilter on it, so if the problem is static maybe that will address it. Also, the DSL isn't an hpna device, so it may make more sense to plug it into the phone jack. I like my filtering idea better, but it'll take you 10 seconds to switch the jacks so you might as well try it.

EDIT: I now understand your statement that "I don't remember the speed being any different when the modem was plugged directly into the wall. " You apparently had a setup where the dsl did not have a phonecord hookup to the router. That makes me think even more that the problem is static or filter related. Go back to that setup or try one of the other ideas I have tossed out. RW

 

[gimlids]

There are no external filters involved in this setup. HPNA 2.0 devices have built in filters specifically to work with DSL. When I put a filter between the Router and the wall, HPNA does not work. I like the "plugging into the phone port" idea, because I'm now thinking that it may be less filtered than the HPNA ports. Then again, wouldn't the Router want to keep interference out of the line from any phones/modems/faxes plugged into that line?

 

[rw120555]

With the filter on, I wonder if it is the HPNA not working, or the DSL. The latter would be my guess, i.e. DSL lines are supposed to be unfiltered. I've never heard that "HPNA 2.0 devices have built in filters specifically to work with DSL" -- are you sure that is right? Of course, it has never come up in my case because the DSL and hpna use different lines. It is true that hpna and dsl can co-exist on the same phone line (i.e. they use different frequencies or something) but I'm not sure that means you don't need a dsl filter for your hpna lines.

Also, I don't think it should hurt to have a dsl filter on the hpna line -- after all, hpna cards typically have a "phone" jack so you can connect a phone to them, and that phone would need filtering. I don't think most hpna cards would do it for you. (The Linksys is the first HPNA device I have seen that mentions a micro-filter on the phone line.)

It sounds like you had a working setup once, and in that setup the dsl was not phonecord connected to the router. If you can't go back to that, play around with your phone connections. Maybe temporarily get a 50 foot phone cord so you could plug the dsl into a different jack. My own #1 theory continues to be that you need an unfiltered line going to the dsl and a filtered line going to the hpna. But, maybe you'll luck out and only need to switch the dsl to the phone jack on your router. Experiment and see what happens. Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[gimlids]

I do have a working setup, that being what I have described. It works fine, it's just the speed that I'm concerned with. When I said the HPNA didn't work when filtered, it didn't: the HPNA light didn't come on. It was connected to a 2-way splitter with a filter, the DSL modem was plugged into the 2-way splitter with no filter and worked fine.

 

[rw120555]

I just saw this, and naturally it goes directly counter to what I just said:

How do I connect my HomePNA device if I have DSL splitters or filters?

I still think, though, that the solution lies in reconfiguring your phone lines -- either plug the dsl into the Phone jack of the Linksys, or plug it into a different jack completely and see where that gets you.

 

[rw120555]

On a different tack -- I considered the linksys and decided against it because of mixed reviews. See

Linksys HomeLink Phoneline 10M Cable/DSL Router

Phoneline 10M Cable/DSL Router

Instead I went with the Netgear rp334; see here and here.

The rp334 is ridiculously expensive but naturally it dropped in price shortly after I bought it. You can buy it direct from Netgear for $200 + shipping, which, surprisingly, is the best price I've seen. Perhaps that isn't too much more than you paid for the linksys?

Also, make sure your Linksys has the latest firmware.

Your problems, of course, reinforce the claims of everyone who says you should install ethernet cable, but if your mother won't let you run a cat5 cable across the family room she probably isn't going to be too crazy about you trying to install ethernet cable around your house.

 

[gimlids]

The Linksys was $120 from amazon.com and I have the latest firmware.

 

[rw120555]

The cost difference is non-trivial but might be worth it. But, I keep going back to your initial statement, "I don't remember the speed being any different when the modem was plugged directly into the wall. " It sounds like your setup has changed (for the worse), so can you go back to what it was, or find some other way that the dsl doesn't phonecord connect to the router? Of course, it could just be that this is as good as it gets (maybe you have crummy phone cabling in your house), but in my setup internet is just as fast on the hpna as it is on the ethernet side of the network.

 

[gimlids]

Yea, I'll mess around with the phone cords tonight, but the computer I'm getting these speeds from is on the Ethernet LAN port (through a switch), not on the Phoneline network.

 

[rw120555]

If the quick and simple solutions don't work, you can try getting rid of the HPNA completely -- disconnect the router, reconnect the pc directly to the dsl, maybe even unplug the phone line to the hpna machine. Maybe you are just hallucinating about how fast the dsl was before you installed the router.

A simpler step may be to unplug the phone cords in the router, leaving the cat5 hookup intact, and plug the dsl directly into the wall phone outlet. Maybe the router itself has a problem, but the hpna bridge part is fine. That is, just use it strictly as a router, not as an hpna/ethernet bridge, so you can isolate the problem. If it zooms that way and then slows to a crawl once you reconnect the hpna, then you know the problem is somehow related to hpna.

But, start by plugging the dsl into the phone jack of the router -- the 10 second solutions are always best to try first. I really don't think HPNA should be slowing your dsl down if everything is working correctly and configured correctly. But, my dsl is on a separate phoneline, so my situation isn't quite the same as yours.

 

[gimlids]

It isn't slow compared to what it used to be, I got DSL a couple weeks ago and I've had the router the whole time. It's slow compared to what Ameritech says it should be. (320 Kbps as opposed to 768 Kbps)

 

[rw120555]

Ah ok (though I'm still confused by what you meant by the "don't remember the speed being different" line.). Well call the DSL company and complain that the service is slow. It may just be they need to do something on their end. The fact that you have hpna or even a router may be totally irrelevant to what the problem is.

If nothing speeds things up, disconnect the router, and hook up the dsl in whatever the official company blessed method is. If it is still slow, you've got grounds for complaint, and they can't blame it on your equipment. But if speed suddenly starts zooming, then you have to figure out how your equipment or setup is zapping things.

Given that this thread may have focused erroneously on HPNA, if problems persist you might start a different thread tomorrow asking more generally about slow dsl and whether your speeds are reasonable.

 

[gimlids]

Alright, thanks for the pointers, I'll see what I can do this evening.

 

[rw120555]

To add to your to-do list, http://www.dslreports.com/ has faqs, along with tools for checking your connection speed and tweaking your computer settings. Sorry if I've been leading you on a wild goose chase, but I thought it was the router that was new, not the DSL. But, maybe one of the tips will actually help. RW

 

[gimlids]

They're both new I got it all at the same time.

 

[rw120555]

Gimlids, here is something else you can try if you want to go to the bother (this is a general trouble-shooting approach for phone problems, e.g. do something like this if your phone line is dead):

Step 1 (Not essential, but no point in going to Step 2 if this doesn't get you anywhere.) Get a really long phone cord if you can (or else move all youjr equipment). Run the cord out to your outside phone box (if it is like mine, it is a grey box on the side of your house). You can open this box, unplug the phone jacks, and plug your cord in (don't do this when family members will scream about the phones not working). Plug the cord into your dsl modem. If the dsl suddenly starts zooming, the problem is somewhere inside your house. If no change, then you can maybe complain about the crummy phone service you have, or continue trying to tweak your computer setup. Remember to plug cords back in the way they were.

Step 2: If dsl is zooming or you don't want to try step 1, then look for problems inside. Try plugging into another phone jack. Unplug all phones; sometimes a cheap or defective phone causes problems all over. If you are lucky, you isolate the problem to a specific phone and replace it, or if it is the outlet you are using, you replace it.

I wouldn't be optimistic, but you might luck out if you want to try this. RW

 

[gimlids]

Hey that's a good idea...I'll tinker around with it if I have time later, but I think I may have found the problem, and might be able to get it fixed by waiting a couple weeks or making a couple phone calls. Details