HP Slate 21 (21" Android tablet) makes a great Thin Client!

[Kaido]

So I just picked up an HP Slate 21 at work:

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ads/new-products/slate-21-aio.html

Available on Amazon for $399 with free shipping:

http://www.amazon.com/HP-21-k100-21-.../dp/B00F0R9SO2

I wanted to test it out as a thin client for Terminal Server. Microsoft just released Remote Desktop for Android (free) last month:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.rdc.android

I initially tested an Android HDMI stick (the sub-$100 models), but it turns out the current models scale to 1080p & can't push out the graphical horsepower needed to do 1920x1080 natively (it exhibits graphical flicker & very poor readability of text). Plus, it was kind of messy (HDMI plug, USB for power, USB to Ethernet adapter, etc. all just kind of hanging out). This was nice because it's an AIO (technically a jumbo Android tablet, but really just a touchscreen monitor with an Android board built-in) and has a native resolution of 1080p.

Features:

* Low price ($399)
* Ethernet (for hardwiring)
* Android 4.2.2 Jelly Bean (full Google Play store access)
* Tegra 4 Quad-Core processor (very sharp 1080p!)
* 21.5" widescreen 1080p IPS LED-backlit display
* 2-point touchscreen (not super fancy multi-touch, but it works)
* Includes wired keyboard & mouse
* VESA-mount capable

I haven't had much luck with Wyse thin clients (Linux or Windows CE-based) for a variety of reasons (hardware overheating, lockups, resolution issues, etc.), so I've been repurposing old PC's with DeepFreeze as RDP clients for basic shop tasks. Lately I've been migrating to the Intel NUC & Gigabyte BRIX line of micro-computers, but those costs add up (hardware costs, Windows, Office, etc.), and since I already have some Terminal Servers, I really just need a high-quality thin client.

This fits the bill REALLY well if all you need is a single, decently-sized monitor (not so great if you need to use a different-sized screen or dual-monitors). It can handle a USB barcode reader & you can use your own keyboard & mouse if you'd like (although I'm having trouble getting it to recognize my Logitech Unity receiver, even though it worked on the Android HDMI stick just fine). As far as configuration goes, I installed SureLock Kiosk Lockdown ($49.99) to manage local access. This basically gives you fine-grain control over access to the Android system, so I could lock everything up (access to settings, which apps can run, which apps are on the homepage, etc.):

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gears42.surelock&hl=en

http://www.42gears.com/index.html

So basically all I have on the homescreen is the RDP client application shortcut. I also installed Null Keyboard (free), which disables the automatic touchscreen keyboard. This wayyou can use a physical keyboard to type without the software keyboard popping up:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wparam.nullkeyboard&hl=en

If you put the MS RDP app in tablet (touch) mode (using the MS onscreen keyboard), it hides the local cursor so you don't get double cursors. I haven't found an easy way to disable the default Android mouse cursor either. I'm also working on disabling the touchscreen, so that it can be used as a standard thin client with only physical keyboard & mouse input. I've tried Argotronic's "Screen Lock/disable touch" app but haven't been successful yet:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.argotronic.touchblocker&hl=en

In Android 4.0+, you can also disable the lockscreen login requirement under Settings > Security > Screen Lock > None. This way, when you wake up the device, it goes directly to the homepage with the single RDP icon. You can also pre-program the RDP icon with saved credentials, so the user only has to tap on their name in the list to access their Terminal session. Unfortunately there is no auto-login option in this RDP app, but it's basically 3 taps from sleep & you're in (tap to wake, tap RDP icon, tap saved credentials). There are plenty of other RDP-capable apps available as well if you need different functionality; this is just a free/easy/officially-supported one straight from Microsoft.

Anyway, just throwing it out there as a simple thin client option, pretty nice! Also, it's pretty cool as a tablet

 

[OBLAMA2009]

why would you buy that if you could just go get a cheap pc aio, ive seen the amd ones for around $400-500. that thing has got to be really slow compared to a pc right? and its only got 1 gb, im guessing performance would be worse than a phone

 

[dougp]

why would you buy that if you could just go get a cheap pc aio, ive seen the amd ones for around $400-500. that thing has got to be really slow compared to a pc right? and its only got 1 gb, im guessing performance would be worse than a phone

You must be missing the point of a "thin" client - it's only purpose is to server as a kiosk, running MSTSC. All processing is handled by the terminal server.

Given the cost of multi-monitor kiosks, or even general dumb terminals that do not come with a monitor, this is a great deal.

 

[tfinch2]

why would you buy that if you could just go get a cheap pc aio, ive seen the amd ones for around $400-500. that thing has got to be really slow compared to a pc right? and its only got 1 gb, im guessing performance would be worse than a phone

A Tegra 4 with 1 GB RAM offers good performance for a stock Android experience. I am not sure why you think performance would be worse than a phone.

 

[Kaido]

why would you buy that if you could just go get a cheap pc aio, ive seen the amd ones for around $400-500. that thing has got to be really slow compared to a pc right? and its only got 1 gb, im guessing performance would be worse than a phone

1. $399 out the door (21" touchscreen Android, power supply, keyboard, mouse)
2. Instant wakeup (great for 24/7 operation without needing to "boot up")
3. No Windows updates, defrag, antivirus, etc. (all done in Terminal session)
4. Super easy to lock down permissions with the kiosk app
5. Zero maintenance
6. Low power cost
7. Great performance with RDP (since everything is done remotely)

 

[Kaido]

You must be missing the point of a "thin" client - it's only purpose is to server as a kiosk, running MSTSC. All processing is handled by the terminal server.

Given the cost of multi-monitor kiosks, or even general dumb terminals that do not come with a monitor, this is a great deal.

Yup! I was thinking about messing around with stuff like the Raspberry Pi as well (running like Linux & rdesktop), but that's a lot of DIY both in terms of hardware & software. With this, HP handles the updates & Microsoft updates the RDP, so it's great! With a Wyse, the typical cost for a nice model was around $400 to $450, plus the cost of a basic LCD monitor ($150), so it was easy to hit $600 and still not get what you wanted.

You're limited to the stock monitor & zero upgradability other than maybe adding a memory card, but if all you need is a single monitor & RDP, then this is a great option for a couple hundred less than the nearest off-the-shelf alternative. I can literally set one of these up in 2 minutes - login to the Google Play account, download the apps, setup RDP, and lock it down. Boom - bulletproof thin client for cheap. I still need to find some misc stuff like a screen protector for dirty shop environments and figure out a few bits & pieces (like why the Unity receiver works on the Android stick but not this, and how to disable the touchscreen), but it's coming along nicely!

 

[Kaido]

A Tegra 4 with 1 GB RAM offers good performance for a stock Android experience. I am not sure why you think performance would be worse than a phone.

My only real requirement was the ability to run 1080p, because there are so many good LED-backlit monitors are the market that would work great with the Android HDMI sticks. Unfortunately they don't have the Tegra chip in the HDMI stick models yet, so those are on hold for now because they can't give you a good RDP experience (and 720p monitors don't really exist, you'd have to get something like the 1366x768 quasi-HD and then the text looks all messed up in the remote session). However, it is really nice to have everything integrated - proper power button & controls and so on, everything in a nice, neat package :thumbsup:

 

[Kaido]

OK, I found some commercial screen protectors:

http://www.skinomi.com/sk13776-hp-slate-21-aio-screen-protector.html

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FX-Antireflex-screen-protector-HP-Slate-21/dp/B00EZHUI9M

http://www.iqshield.com/iq13776-hp-slate-21-aio-screen.html

The second one from atFoliX looks good, but I can't find them in the US, might try their eBay store.

 

[Kaido]

OK, so the only custom-cut screen protectors in-stock are the ones off Amazon UK; it'd probably cost more to ship them to the USA than it would to buy them haha. Bummer. The edges of the screen are angled, so I could cut off a DIY version and trim the edges. Another option is making some kind of clear plastic cover for the front, since the screen is indented about 1/8".

I still haven't found a way to turn off the screen like I want to. I found another app called "No Touch" that turns off the screen, but it also turns off mouseclicks with no option to enable mouseclicks but disable the touchscreen:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hatcyl.android.NoTouch&hl=en

Not a huge deal, but I'd really like to have the touchscreen disabled & have a screen protector since I'm putting these in dusty shop environments, and since this is an AIO computer, it's more expensive & annoying to replace the "monitor" than with a traditional computer. Using a plastic screen shield would fix both the dust issue on the screen from being in a dirty environment and disable touchscreen access. I'll have to think about that one some more.

I still haven't figured out why the Logitech Unity receiver isn't playing nice with the Slate, even though it plays nice with the other Android device I have. Null Keyboard doesn't appear necessary since the USB keyboard seems to disable the onscreen keyboard just fine.

As far as MS RDP goes, there is a small transparent gray bar at the top with the name of your remote connection. On the left is a D-pad that lets you zoom. If you tap the name of the remote connection, it brings up the Microsoft special keys menu at the bottom. From there you can press the D-pad icon with the mouse icon in the middle of it to disable the RDP mouse cursor, so you only see one cursor (you can also hit the Tetris block icon to bring up the MS onscreen keyboard, which is different from the Android onscreen keyboard). The keyboard icon on the right side of the top gray bar brings up the Android onscreen keyboard.

 

[lopri]

Interesting product. Price is surprisingly low although the weight is kind of scary. (10+ lbs.?) I wonder if it's a monitor/TV that's re-purposed?

 

[Kaido]

Interesting product. Price is surprisingly low although the weight is kind of scary. (10+ lbs.?) I wonder if it's a monitor/TV that's re-purposed?

Definitely seems like a re-purposed touchscreen monitor. However, the weight is extremely nice because it makes it solid on a table. The hinge is perfectly sprung to allow you to push it back to an almost flat angle, or simply lift it up to sit in front of. This isn't something you would use on your lap; it's the same idea as an AIO PC running Windows. Plus you could always just VESA-mount it. I definitely want one of these for my kitchen!

 

[MaxDepth]

I think it's nice as an all-in-one for something like a swing arm computer for the kitchen but I would need to ensure that I had a dedicated power outlet nearby as this thing does not have an internal battery.

 

[Kaido]

I think it's nice as an all-in-one for something like a swing arm computer for the kitchen but I would need to ensure that I had a dedicated power outlet nearby as this thing does not have an internal battery.

Yup. And optionally Ethernet, if you'd prefer not to use Wifi.

I would like to see a swing-arm for the kitchen with an integrated power cable to make it look nice.

 

[Kaido]

Slate21 Pro announced: (same $399 price, but in black now)

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2354903&highlight=slate

Big added feature is that you can use it as an HDMI display for say a computer or cable box, which makes it a lot more attractive for locations like a kitchen.

And to be honest, the white color was a hangup for me at work because white gets dirty in shop environments and requires a lot more attention for cleaning so it looks nice visually. Will definitely be picking one of the new ones up :thumbsup:

 

[Kaido]

The black ones are out for $379: (if the link doesn't work, go to shopping1.hp.com & search for part number F7U54A8)

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTE...DepAvTr4s&CatalogCategoryID=&JumpTo=OfferList

The white ones are $349 on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/HP-21-k100-21-.../dp/B00F0R9SO2

There are 2 benefits to the black one:

1. Pass-through HDMI (lets you use it as a 21" touchscreen-enabled monitor for a computer)
2. It's black (looks less dirty, especially if you're using them in a dusty environment like a shop floor)

FYI these do work with USB barcode scanners (Honeywell 1300G's have been the best for me so far). Also, SureLock Kiosk for Android is $50 PER license, so if you need to lock down multiple devices, you will need one license per machine. Microsoft's Remote Desktop works like a champ; my only complaint would be that it's not friendly to change the resolution (desktop is set at 1080p or so), so if someone older or with glasses wants to change the res for readability, oh well.

 

[Kaido]

Black ones are available on Amazon now:

http://www.amazon.com/Slate-Pro-16GB...dp/B00IGM5F7M/

I still can't get my Logitech Unity receivers to work with them (the Logitech MK320 is my favorite wireless keyboard/mouse combo, and a nice dustcover is available for the keyboard on Amazon), but I did have success with a similar HP wireless keyboard & mouse, as well as every other wired keyboard, mouse, and (various) barcode scanners I've tried, which is really really nice. The Unity works fine on my Android HDMI stick, so it's definitely something weird with the HP Slate for some reason. Oh well.

 

[Kaido]

I just picked up the 14" HP Slatebook for use as a mobile thin client: (via MS RDP)

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/slatebook/overview.html

Available on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/HP-Slatebook-1...dp/B00KB3K6G4/

Specs:

* $429
* 9-hour battery life
* 14" screen @ 1080p resolution
* 10-point multi-touch
* Android 4.3 Jelly Bean
* Tegra 4 (1.8ghz Quad-core GPU) + 2GB RAM + 16GB SSD
* 802.11n Wi-fi + Bluetooth
* (2) USB 2.0, (1) USB 3.0, HDMI, MicroSD slot, Headphone/Mic-in combo jack, Webcam & Mic

Benefits:

* Long battery life
* Reasonable price
* Fixed as laptop (non-detachable like the Transformer tablet/laptop design)
* Great touchscreen (the Slate AIO 21" displays are 2-finger only, not 10)

Complaints: (from a business perspective)

* Black with yellow trim (looks like Bumblebee from Transformers), not super business-y
* Touchpad is kinda meh. Don't know how to right-click within MS RDP app...
* Resolution is set/fixed (more of an RDP problem); some programs @ 1080p are hard to read for older users (tiny print) - can probably change on the Terminal Server end, I'll have to look into it.
* Screen is kind of wobbly when you type (due to thinness). You also have to open the screen with two hands since it's so light (#firstworldproblems) - if you lift the screen up, the bottom part comes with it unless you hold it down with your other hand.

Overall, pretty nice if you need a mobile RDP client. I can open it up, touch the RDP icon, and be connected in seconds. It's awesome! The only real off-the-shelf competitor I know of is Wyse's laptop, the X-class from Dell, but that's $749 & is basically just a repurposed (thick) laptop:

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/wyse-x-class/pd

If you're going to go that route, you might as well roll your own with DeepFreeze & a cheap Windows laptop. I mean, Best Buy has a zippy 15" Asus for $229 right now:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-15-...lack/7288011.p

DeepFreeze is under $50:

http://www.faronics.com/products/deep-freeze/

So you can get an even more customizable & configurable RDP-only laptop for under $300 if you really want to. I've repurposed old laptops (and desktops) this way in the past with good results.

 

[Kaido]

Oh yeah, and the HP Slate 21 Pro has some Citrix goodies baked-in now:

http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/new-style-it/assets/slate_21_pro_aio.pdf

Citrix Ready and HDX Verified for easy deployment and management

• Give users simple, scalable access and enable IT to manage apps and ensure device security and
corporate compliance with pre-installed Citrix XenMobile4
• Deliver a virtual workspace with secure data and Windows app support via Citrix Receiver.5
• Citrix Ready certification helps ensure seamless compatibility with Citrix solutions. Enjoy a great
user experience when accessing Windows data and applications with preinstalled Citrix Receiver5
and Citrix Ready HDX Verification.

So if you want to get fancy with some GRID gear & throw on HDX goodness, these are already Citrix Ready so you can start the party with minimum fuss!

 

[s44]

Is the Slatebook display IPS?

 

[Kaido]

Is the Slatebook display IPS?

Nope, I think it's just a TN; you can still tell it washes out a bit in bright areas. The 21" Slates both have IPS screens. I have the side-by-side here & can tell you that it is a fairly high-end non-IPS though - really good colors & pretty decent brightness.

 

[andrewoo]

Hi,

I am also testing Slate 21 with RDS running Windows 7. My testers were reporting that the Slate 21 has lag in screen response, and not so smooth as Wyse or PC as thin client. Although it is not a huge lag, it is still noticeable.

Do you experience similar issues? How do you tackle this?

Thanks.

 

[suzook]

Hi Kaido

I am currently looking at doing a tc project with RDP for a customer. I found you on this site when looking at the model .

Did you progress further and any feedback on the devices?

I'd maybe be looking at them for hybrid purposes.

IE , RDP for majority of work and functions and maybe skype/local access for web conferences etc.

Did you manage to ever switch off the touchscreen functionality? Cursor for mouse working correctly and keyboard off . as you described a thinclient

thanks in advance

 

[Kaido]

Hi,

I am also testing Slate 21 with RDS running Windows 7. My testers were reporting that the Slate 21 has lag in screen response, and not so smooth as Wyse or PC as thin client. Although it is not a huge lag, it is still noticeable.

Do you experience similar issues? How do you tackle this?

Thanks.

Did they adjust the touchscreen keyboard so that the RDP mouse is hidden? That will cause perceived lag - iirc the white mouse cursor visually trails the larger black Android mouse cursor unless you turn that off.

Other than that, yes, there is a bit of lag, but that's been the case with every RDP client I've used. The best RDP experience I've come across is a full Windows OS using Windows RDP, which kind of defeats the purpose, but otherwise, the Android thin clients have visually performed equally to my Wyse fleet (i.e. standard RDP lag), but have been a thousand times more reliable in practice. Also, I've found that Ethernet works the best for RDP - I get much more lag even on 802.11n wireless than with a basic Ethernet drop. Granted, my Terminal Servers are all on-site, so I'm not doing remote work long distances (WAN-wise).

 

[Kaido]

Hi Kaido

I am currently looking at doing a tc project with RDP for a customer. I found you on this site when looking at the model .

Did you progress further and any feedback on the devices?

I'd maybe be looking at them for hybrid purposes.

IE , RDP for majority of work and functions and maybe skype/local access for web conferences etc.

Did you manage to ever switch off the touchscreen functionality? Cursor for mouse working correctly and keyboard off . as you described a thinclient

thanks in advance

Yes, I've installed a couple dozen at different places so far & they have been working great for me. Zero maintenance! The best lockdown software is Surelock for Android. A bit on that:

1. Website: http://www.42gears.com/surelock/surelockandroid.html
2. Use the Direct Download from their site to install for best results (not the Play store)
3. Pricing: $50 for 1 license, $300 for 10, $1000 for 50, $1600 for 100
4. Download & install, activate using the code, then change admin password
5. I use custom wallpapers depending on the client - usually the company logo
6. Lets you choose specifically what apps are accessible on the homescreen
7. Also lets you lock out ALL other functions with a custom message (ex. "Sorry, that feature is not available" if they try to swipe or access anything else)

You can completely customize the end-user experience using Surelock, nothing else I've used even comes close. I have not had any luck turning off the touchscreen (still looking & open to suggestions!), which is a pain because I've put these in dirty shop environments & have had to print out labels saying "Do not touch the screen". Otherwise you can throw them in an enclosure box if you have that available or want to fabricate one, but that's a pain (especially since the Slate 21's are under $400 these days & a sealed box can start at $600). Anyway, the touchscreen keyboard stays hidden if they're using a physical keyboard, so it's largely been a non-issue once the operators are properly trained. But it is a hassle & I would like to be able to disable the touchscreen easily.

The black Slate 21 Pro models are the best. Right now they are cheaper than the white ones on Amazon (although the price fluctuates), but imo the white ones are not worth buying at all for a few reasons:

1. They are white (dirt)
2. They are glossy (dirt)
3. They do not work with my wireless keyboard & mouse sets (ex. Logitech Unity receivers)
4. They have lesser hardware specs
5. They have a laptop-style power plug (brick in the middle) instead of a regular computer cable (which the black ones have - the black ones are heavier because the power supply is built into the screen)
6. They lack HDMI input, so if you want to double them up as a monitor or television, you can't do that on the white ones

The only time I could see the white ones being used is maybe in a residential environment where you need the white color to look nice. But other than that, the price difference is usually only around $30, so there's really no reason to go with them, especially since you don't get what I would call a full USB implementation. As far as keyboards go, I like the Logitech MK320 because they're cheap, work great, and have dustcovers for the keyboards available. The Slates come with a wired keyboard & mouse, so this is completely optional, but I find that it makes for a nicer-looking installation to not have wires everywhere - throw the Slate on a VESA mount, hide the power & Ethernet wires, and then use the wireless keyboard & mouse - clean! For some reason, the Amazon MK320 set comes with the older USB-stick-style receiver & the Newegg MK320 set comes with the newer Unity receiver, so I always order from Newegg. They are usually $40 but go on sale all the time:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823126188

They include the batteries, which is nice, and the battery life is pretty good, plus they're so cheap that if they get beat up, I'm not too put out because it's not like it was a nicer $90 set or something. I have used the Logitech MK710 in the past, but got a lot of complaints that the keys are too mushy, so I've stuck with the MK320's. Dust covers for the keyboards cost $15 and are available on Amazon & Newegg. They are decent & do make it mushier to type on, but if you're putting them in a dirty environment, they're great:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA3AN1196932

http://www.amazon.com/Custom-Transpa.../dp/B006II2IPI

I've used a variety of USB barcode scanners successfully with these as well, everything from expensive Honeywell laser models to Wasp CCD models. Personally, I like these cheap $25 barcode scanners off Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Barc...dp/B00406YZGK/

It includes a decent-quality laser barcode scanner, a stand, and the USB cable. The barcode scanner has automatic detection, so you can use it similar to a grocery store scanner where you hold something in front of it, it "wakes up", and then you align the barcode to scan into the system. That's handy for paperwork, boxes, shipments, doing inventory, etc. The Slates auto-detect the scanners, so it's all plug & play!

This all assumes that the site is running a Terminal Server or that people are remoting back into their main desktop somewhere. The Slates are not without their complaints. The biggest complaint I get is the resolution. A 21" screen @ 1080p can make it difficult for people with poor vision to read; by default, Terminal Servers lock you out of screwing around with the resolution, at least on the Android app. I haven't looked into tweaking this further, but be aware that the app runs natively at 1920x1080 (well, slightly smaller since the bottom Android control icons cut it down a bit). Second complaint is no dual monitors, which is something that Dell has the advantage of with the Wyse TCX suite for multi-display support.

So the Slate occupies a somewhat specific niche: you are stuck with the monitor (and resolution) it comes with & also "stuck" with only having a single monitor, but it works pretty good for a simple thin client. I've tried a variety of other Android devices (HDMI sticks, set-top consoles like the Mad Catz, etc.) but these are great because I can take them out of the box & literally have them setup & ready to go in like 2 minutes with minimal mess thanks to the AIO design - with Surelock, I can completely lock them down so I never have to look at them again unless I need to change the RDP settings or something (and Surelock does have some remote access tools available, although I haven't tinkered with them yet).

Also, I have used them a bit for dual-functionality - nothing serious, usually just stuff like the Pandora app or whatever, for the operator to have some background music - if the client allows it. I do have one of the HP Slatebooks as well, the 14", which isn't bad, but I haven't figured out how to right-click with the touchpad (so I have to use a mouse), but if you need a simple mobile client, it's an option - but you can also get a basic Asus or Toshiba laptop for $229 at Best Buy, throw a copy of DeepFreeze on it for $50 (mentioned a few posts up) & lock down the settings, and have yourself an even cheaper, more capable mobile RDP client.

 

[suzook]

Thanks for the comprehensive writeup , will forward that to my collegues and see what their opinion is on the slate pros as an option for the thinclient

You manage redirection of the barcode scanners and usb devices to the terminal server session?

Ive been playing around with remote fx and video camera redirection etc on a window 8 to 2012ts lab and works well .

Did you ever test the camera redirection on these devices to a ts session?

thanks