HP Prebulit

[Zawmbeez]

So, my family is getting a new computer. I wanted to build it thinking it would be cheaper and I would get better components. After tinkering around with builds for a few weeks, I got something I was satisfied with, but it wasn't that much cheaper. And considering it would be my first build, I decided to just go the pre-built route for us.

My local BestBuy has this HP and a 23" HP monitor on for $999.99. Specs on the computer.

I think it looks good. The power supply doesn't leave much room for upgrading and the graphic card is low end. But it should be sufficient for what we need it for. It'll play the games I have right now alright. If I feel the need for more, I can upgrade out of my pocket. Anything glaring wrong with it?

TL : DR
What do you think of this computer and monitor?

 

[mfenn]

5570 == Crap. You can do much better for $1k.

 

[Zawmbeez]

I am aware, but its the best pre-built I can find for a thousand. The 23" monitor is pretty good. I can always upgrade the graphic card later (and the PSU, cause I'm pretty sure its 300W).

 

[mfenn]

Didn't you post a thread a little while ago where we had a gaming PC all spec'ed out and ready to go? What happened to that?

 

[Zawmbeez]

Yes I did. It was going to be $800, with 2GB less ram, a 6850. Other then that basically the same stuff. I couldn't convince the rest of the family to go with building it. I feel bad cause you did a lot of work on that build and I didn't even use it. So we're going prebuilt and this was the best I could find looking around.

 

[Daemas]

build the computer, then split the extra $200. They'll like that better than a shitty OEM computer (not saying that this particular model is bad, but 99% of all OEM computers are horrible)

 

[Mo0o]

Why is your family so set on a prebuilt computer? This computer is going to be a ripoff since you're buying 1) a mobo w/o sata 6 or usb 3.0, b) likely poor quality ram c) a low quality PSU, d) a video card that past the value curve e) likely a so so hard drive.

 

[mfenn]

Yes I did. It was going to be $800, with 2GB less ram, a 6850. Other then that basically the same stuff. I couldn't convince the rest of the family to go with building it. I feel bad cause you did a lot of work on that build and I didn't even use it. So we're going prebuilt and this was the best I could find looking around.

Bolded the huge difference. A 6850 is somewhere on the order of 4-5 times faster than the 5570. Sad that your family is being so uptight about this.

 

[Axon]

Ugh, I hate that whole "HP or nothing" attitude. The only time I suggest pre-builts is for low end machines where the user might pester me for every little basic thing, like installing firefox.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Tell your family that working on or upgrading an HP is a real pain due to the proprietary crap. 'Course, that'll probably just convince them to buy an extended warranty. Yikes!

 

[Zawmbeez]

I tried asking about building, but they do not want to build it. I'm also a little worried about building it. I know everything show plug in nicely but $1000 bucks is a lot to have on your kitchen table.

I understand most of the stuff in it will be low end crap, but what else can I do?

 

[Xellos2099]

May I ask the question. why not build it? Is it because they felt you are not experience enough?

 

[theevilsharpie]

The pre-built hate here is ridiculous.

OP, there's nothing wrong with the computer you selected. As mentioned, the video card is a bit weak, and the power supply is only 300W, but you can always upgrade them if necessary.

The big drawbacks of going with a pre-built PC are:
1. No overclocking options
2. The case tends to be smaller than many enthusiast cases, so if you intend to upgrade the video card, you'll have to make sure that the card you get will physically fit into you case

Ignore the haters. If you want to go with a pre-built, and you're okay with the limitations, go for it.

 

[Blain]

I tried asking about building, but they do not want to build it. I'm also a little worried about building it. I know everything show plug in nicely but $1000 bucks is a lot to have on your kitchen table.

I understand most of the stuff in it will be low end crap, but what else can I do?

You're 16...
All you can do is suck it up and get used to someone else having their way.
This is one of life's lessons. It should motivate you to save up your cash, do some kind of work here and there, so that you can build the rig you want.

 

[Zawmbeez]

Sharpie, its not that bad. I just think most people here realize the kind of quality you can get by building it your self. I wouldn't blame them for recommending that path.

Good advice Blain. I have some money saved up, so I figure I can put it in to upgrading this computer. New power supply and GPU would probably be the first upgrade. A few upgrades here and there seem a lot easier then putting the entire thing together.

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Sharpie, its not that bad. I just think most people here realize the kind of quality you can get by building it your self. I wouldn't blame them for recommending that path.

A custom-built PC is no guarantee of quality. Many, if not most, of the custom-built PC's I've seen have been total shit heaps.

 

[Zawmbeez]

Any by quality I meant the level of parts you can get for your money versus those that come in a pre-built of equal cost.

 

[Davidh373]

That prebuilt is crap. Tell your parents everyone is saying that prebuilts are crap. They cheap out on Mobo, Ram, PSU. I would not recommend a prebuilt for any budget not below $400, or above $2000. Anything in-between can be built for half the price...

 

[theevilsharpie]

That prebuilt is crap. Tell your parents everyone is saying that prebuilts are crap. They cheap out on Mobo, Ram, PSU.

Please explain how they cheap out on the mobo, RAM, and PSU.

 

[Davidh373]

Please explain how they cheap out on the mobo, RAM, and PSU.

Businesses tend to like to make a profit, or they tend to go out of business. To make the most out of the money they spend, they will buy the cheapest motherboard (most of the time limited to to amount of SATA/USB/DIMM Slots used/ ect.), RAM (likely some cheap brand like ADATA, or Allcomponents with the highest latency and the worst timings on the market), and any PSU I've gotten in prebuilts are 300W-400W pieces of crap. Brands like Dynapower or Sunbeam populate this market and would probably be the least efficient crap on the planet. These are all components I wouldn't trust in a custom rig. You don't trust a 400W PSU that costs $20, you don't buy slow ram for $10 a stick... These are just things that aren't good practice.

When they are willing to advertise "4GB RAM" but don't give you specs on the RAM it's likely they aren't for a reason. It's like the saying goes, "If it's too good to be true it probably isn't"...

 

[theevilsharpie]

Businesses tend to like to make a profit, or they tend to go out of business. To make the most out of the money they spend, they will buy the cheapest motherboard (most of the time limited to to amount of SATA/USB/DIMM Slots used/ ect.), RAM (likely some cheap brand like ADATA, or Allcomponents with the highest latency and the worst timings on the market), and any PSU I've gotten in prebuilts are 300W-400W pieces of crap. Brands like Dynapower or Sunbeam populate this market and would probably be the least efficient crap on the planet. These are all components I wouldn't trust in a custom rig. You don't trust a 400W PSU that costs $20, you don't buy slow ram for $10 a stick... These are just things that aren't good practice.

When they are willing to advertise "4GB RAM" but don't give you specs on the RAM it's likely they aren't for a reason. It's like the saying goes, "If it's too good to be true it probably isn't"...

Everyone on the market, be they system builders like HP or parts manufacturers like Corsair, is looking to make the largest profit possible. If you don't think parts manufacturers are looking to cut costs as much as possible, you're fooling yourself. However, decreasing costs is not the only way companies increase their profits. If parts fail prior to the expiration of the warranty, the manufacturer is on the hook for a replacement, and in the cutthroat world of PC sales, warranty service is enough to turn a minor profit into a loss. As such, HP and other system builders have every incentive to source reliable parts.

As for performance, HP's spec sheet lists the memory as being DDR3 PC3-10600, which seems to be standard fare for AMD MicroATX boards. The number of of available ports is also in line with similar MicroATX boards from other vendors. As such, I fail to see how HP cheaped out here. The power supply I'll give you, but as long as it powers the computer HP sold, it's doing its job.

 

[Davidh373]

As for performance, HP's spec sheet lists the memory as being DDR3 PC3-1060

There are many more details about RAM, such as latency, timings, DIMM size. As for the Motherboard, The Number of DIMM slots is also important if you want the ability to upgrade later, as is the speed of memory the motherboard accepts. The power supply is also important, because a cheap PSU can fry the entire system. Another reason you want a good power supply is so you can add more to the build, a better video card/ more RAM, More HDDs.

I won't ever recommend a prebuilt after all I've been through with them... At least I know it's my fault for picking crappy or cheap hardware if it goes bad, instead of a company's which won't take responsibility for their parts after a year. Dells, HPs, and Apple computers I've purchased have all had all had problems. My HP had bad hard drives, my Dell (which is old, I admit) locks up half way through booting windows, my MacBook has had HDD clicking, bad RAM, a bad Superdrive, and my model has been known to have graphics issues, so I'm gonna have a ball with that when my turn comes around...

Soon I will be purchasing an HP Laptop (or rather my family will), but that is only because laptops aren't near cost effective to build.

 

[theevilsharpie]

There are many more details about RAM, such as latency, timings, DIMM size. As for the Motherboard, The Number of DIMM slots is also important if you want the ability to upgrade later, as is the speed of memory the motherboard accepts. The power supply is also important, because a cheap PSU can fry the entire system. Another reason you want a good power supply is so you can add more to the build, a better video card/ more RAM, More HDDs.

The computer the OP linked to has four memory slots. Since the machine comes equipped with 6GB of RAM, we can assume that they are 2GB modules. The memory is DDR3 1333, so the latency is probably CAS 9, just like the bazillions of other DDR3 1333 modules out there. I doubt the power supply is going to fry the entire system (that whole "minimizing costs" thing), and if it doesn't have enough capacity for your needs, nothing is stopping you from replacing it with a more powerful power supply.

All of this information is listed in HP's spec sheet. Simply buying a pre-built computer doesn't absolve you if your responsibility to research your purchase, particularly if you need to add extra components to meet your needs. HP tells you exactly what's in their computers; they aren't selling you mysterious black box (well... figuratively speaking :awe.

I won't ever recommend a prebuilt after all I've been through with them... At least I know it's my fault for picking crappy or cheap hardware if it goes bad, instead of a company's which won't take responsibility for their parts after a year. Dells, HPs, and Apple computers I've purchased have all had all had problems. My HP had bad hard drives, my Dell (which is old, I admit) locks up half way through booting windows, my MacBook has had HDD clicking, bad RAM, a bad Superdrive, and my model has been known to have graphics issues, so I'm gonna have a ball with that when my turn comes around...

There've been plenty of horror stories on there forums about poor RMA experiences with parts vendors, and I've had plenty of experiences with parts vendors blaming other components for problems they don't want to deal with. Building your own PC certainly doesn't make support headaches go away.

 

[Davidh373]

There've been plenty of horror stories on there forums about poor RMA experiences with parts vendors, and I've had plenty of experiences with parts vendors blaming other components for problems they don't want to deal with. Building your own PC certainly doesn't make support headaches go away.

I can tell you that not once have I had a problem with my system I couldn't diagnose myself in the 2 years I've owned my custom build. If you pick quality parts you shouldn't run into any physical problems with your hardware. All that is ever likely to come up is software issues, which HPs have just as often.

But hey, lets stop. I think it's obvious we have both made our concerns known. I'm not saying that the HP won't work, it is likely to. I do however think he is paying an extra $400 for nothing though.

Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-193-_-Product

PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-011-_-Product

Foxconn motherboard (the HP I got have a remote, so why not this one?)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-191-_-Product

CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-675-_-Product

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-063-_-Product

Graphics
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-342-_-Product

HDD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-185-_-Product

Optical
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106276

Multi-card reader
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-608-_-Product

Total: $562.86 with shipping included

Add in a keyboard and mouse and you've got somewhere around $600

If you throw in a 23" monitor for $150

That total is somewhere around $750. That is a 25% upcharge, and not to mention that system's performance per dollar is WAY off the deep end, as is balance. It's up to the OP really. I wouldn't call a $1000 HP money well spent though.

 

[jchu14]

OP, are your parents open to buying a non-hp branded prebuilt?

You can get this ibuypower desktop with phenom x6 and Radeon 5770 for $800. Then add a 24" Asus monitor for $200. For the same $1000, you get a much card for gaming.

EDIT: Changede out the monitor. My old link was bad.