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How's the QC on the TRUE Black Edition?

F

fusedpro

Member
Well, I know the performance is the same compared to the regular, only difference is the color and included TIM. My question is, is it like the regular TRUE where you'd HAVE to lap it to get the best performance to make it worth the price? I decided to go with air cooling this time around and get a water loop going when the Nehalems come out. Pretty sure that's everything that I wanted to ask about that. Now a few more questions - if I would have to lap it, any estimations on the possibility of screwing it up? After that's all said and done, what's the best fan to put on there... I'm thinking the Scythe Ultra Kaze but I've been out of the airflow market for awhile.

Besides the TRUE, what are some other viable options. It'll be on a Q6600, hopefully a G0 - newegg still has no guarantees. Performance isn't at the top of my list surprisingly, I want something that looks decent as well. The Xigmatek and Core Contact coolers perform great from what I've seen but look, well, hideous. How does the Nirvana and Tuniq Tower 120 rank amongst these?
 
this is the 1000000000000000000000000000000 dollar question.

😀


im itching to know as well, however i dont want to be the one sitting there lapping it if its not flat.

i hurt my hands enough on my IFX-14
 
Who says you have to lap the TRUE? Sure, there are lots of people who say it isn't flat but, allegedly, Thermalright retort that the IHS of Intel chips aren't either and that their heat sinks are built to match. What are you looking for? Is the extra 1 or 2 degrees you'll possibly get from lapping that critical for you? If so, move from the Sahara to somewhere cooler... Don't lap your heatsink until it's the last resort.

As for looks: don't try to let aesthetics get in the way of performance. Number one consideration should be your CPU's welfare. Just get yourself a good heatsink. And if your prime consideration is the colour, you are, in the words of a famous Greek philosopher, royally f**ked!

As an aside, function over beauty led to the Spitfire, the Mustang, and the Lightning in WWII... The defence rests.
 
I gotta agree with Aigo here. Many companies hide their poor QC behind the fact that the IHS's aren't flat. The fact is, they just don't want to put in the effort to make a truely flat base in order to maximize profits.
 
Originally posted by: Gillbot
I gotta agree with Aigo here. Many companies hide their poor QC behind the fact that the IHS's aren't flat. The fact is, they just don't want to put in the effort to make a truely flat base in order to maximize profits.
Click to expand...

I didnt even bother fitting my Ultima and HR-03 GT before cracking out my lapping kit and it was worth it....

Both sinks were concave and required quite the bit of elbow grease to level off.

Contact is fantastic between my sinks and chips. The fins and heatpipes can get toasty.
 
Originally posted by: Gillbot
I gotta agree with Aigo here. Many companies hide their poor QC behind the fact that the IHS's aren't flat. The fact is, they just don't want to put in the effort to make a truely flat base in order to maximize profits.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is true at all, on the large majority of unlapped CPUs are better off with a bowed heatsink. Although it is significantly harder to get a good bowed base than it is to get a really flat base (flat is easy, just use a mill to make the base flat to 1/100 of a millimeter...). And as it looks Thermalright isn't getting it right yet...
If you want an example showing why bowed is better, just look at any review of the Swiftech Apogee GTX waterblock. It used to come with two types of O-rings, with the standard one leaving the base flat and the bigger one making it bowed (it now only comes with the bigger one). It's common consensus among all reviews that it performs siginificantly better bowed than flat.
Also, if you've ever lapped a heatsink and properly checked it with a straight edge afterwards, you would have noticed that you actually end up with a slightly bowed base, due to the way you apply pressure while lapping. You're always taking a little more material of the edge in whose direction you're moving the heatsink, leaving the center a little bit higher than the edges.

Another good alternative to the Thermalrights is the Noctua U12P, it's a little more expensive, but comes with a very good fan as well (which retails for $25+ alone), solid mounting system and more accesoires.
 
Although it is significantly harder to get a good bowed base than it is to get a really flat base (flat is easy, just use a mill to make the base flat to 1/100 of a millimeter...).
Click to expand...
Cross milling does NOT = a flat base. Any avid PC OC'er knows this from the good old Alpha cooler days.

I stand behind my statement:
The fact is, they just don't want to put in the effort to make a truely flat base in order to maximize profits.
Click to expand...

Either way, it still holds true. Either they don't want to put forth the effort to put the proper "bow" on the base or they don't want to make it 100% flat. I still say flat is better since the concave nature of the IHS will vary from chip to chip as they all have a different "dish" to them.
 
Flat is not good, unless you have a well lapped CPU. The vast majority of CPUs is concave, needing a bowed heatsink for optimal contact. The problem is really the CPUs, every CPU needs another degree of bowing for best contact.

And just blaming Thermalright isn#t very helpful either, my first Scythe Mugen was 11C better after lapping, and it had a concave base, which is just about as bad as it gets.
 
Originally posted by: Nickel020
Flat is not good, unless you have a well lapped CPU. The vast majority of CPUs is concave, needing a bowed heatsink for optimal contact. The problem is really the CPUs, every CPU needs another degree of bowing for best contact.

And just blaming Thermalright isn#t very helpful either, my first Scythe Mugen was 11C better after lapping, and it had a concave base, which is just about as bad as it gets.
Click to expand...

your agruement would prove true if the sink performed better stock then lapped.

But as i said, cuz the sink performs better lapped, and theres TONS of documentation, TR just gave up lapping it.

They assume we will already do it for top performance, it saves them cost, even 1 dollar off a sink is still money saved, and they just refuse to make them flat.


This is the arguement we are bringing. :T
 
It's not a QC, the heatsink is *intentionally* bowed. Which does not perform well on lapped CPUs, and the "TONS of documentation" ist mostly performed on lapped CPUs...

The problem with bowed is, there's not one type of bowed, bowed is pretty complex, unlike flat.
 
Originally posted by: Nickel020
It's not a QC, the heatsink is *intentionally* bowed. Which does not perform well on lapped CPUs, and the "TONS of documentation" ist mostly performed on lapped CPUs...

The problem with bowed is, there's not one type of bowed, bowed is pretty complex, unlike flat.
Click to expand...

Nickel, Thermalrights problem is quality control, period.
If TR sold bowed heat sinks that were consistant fine and dandy, but they don't.
Aigo's heatsink iwas convex, which would have worked well on my E6600 that was concave.
My heatsink on the other hand was concave. With both my chip and heatsink concave I would need a golf ball sized pea of TIM and we all know how that works,,,,,,

After lapping I got great temps. I did a little testing w/ Realtemp calibration using that same heatsink on my WCooled quad. These are the idle temps as reported by realtemp w/ no calibration. CPU on water is on the right and I can tell you my rig wasn't built by Thermaltake!


Edit- Aigo! I still got the UV and green water!!!! just hanging all outside the box so I could run tests for unclewebb.
 
Originally posted by: Nickel020
It's not a QC, the heatsink is *intentionally* bowed. Which does not perform well on lapped CPUs, and the "TONS of documentation" ist mostly performed on lapped CPUs...

The problem with bowed is, there's not one type of bowed, bowed is pretty complex, unlike flat.
Click to expand...

this agruement would only apply if only lapped ihs saw improvement.

Well, thats where your agruemet goes wrong. Cuz even on non lapped cpu's, lapping the heat sinks works great.


This is the catch21 on why TR is promiting Bullshit. If it didnt work better lapped, then the bow is something required.

However by unbowing the sink it performs better, so it means its a design flaw.



Dude, i think i know more about bowing them thermalright.
Bowing came off waterblocks, and i was there when it was first introduced.
And if you unbow a bowed block, it performs crap.
This is how the TRUE should follow if bowing was a performance tweek.
 
Well, the general consensus will be that lapping is required and after a quick google search, it doesn't appear to be too expensive so I might as well lap both the processor and heatsink. That aside, I still have two questions, one being unanswered from the OP - what is the best fan to put on this beast? Secondly, I've heard complaints about the TRUE being too big? for the DFI Lanparty DK P35, can anyone comment on this? Obviously it'll fit but I heard it overlaps or something with the heatsinks that are already there.
 
I've heard San-Aces do well on the true but they are hard to find. I'm no expert though so i have no other fan advice.
 
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