Howard Dean's keynote address to the Liberal Party Of Canada leadership convention.

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
What's so great about this speech again?

It's a short political speech. No policy, no real ideas here...

I think you are right though: Dean WOULD make a great Canadian. You can have him.
 

2Xtreme21

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2004
7,045
0
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
I think you are right though: Dean WOULD make a great Canadian. You can have him.

Yeah, God forbid we have intelligence in our leadership.

 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Sour grapes, cwjerome?

What part of "fiscally responsible and socially progressive" fails to define policy?

I think it's a very good speech, and that Dean's election strategy has served the country well. Hopefully, we'll see more of the same in both regards, and that we can proceed in cleaning up the mess created with the so-called "values" of the far Right- mostly a smokescreen for the biggest looting spree in the history of the world...
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,481
4,552
136
Originally posted by: cwjerome
What's so great about this speech again?

It's a short political speech. No policy, no real ideas here...

I think you are right though: Dean WOULD make a great Canadian. You can have him.

I didn't know Howard Dean was yours to give away.
:confused:
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Sour grapes, cwjerome?

What part of "fiscally responsible and socially progressive" fails to define policy?

I think it's a very good speech, and that Dean's election strategy has served the country well. Hopefully, we'll see more of the same in both regards, and that we can proceed in cleaning up the mess created with the so-called "values" of the far Right- mostly a smokescreen for the biggest looting spree in the history of the world...

Sour grapes, over what?

Fiscally responsible and socially progressive? Anything beyond the CLICHED platitudes? Seriously, this is what you consider a great speech? Wow. It was a rah-rah, feel-good blurb for like-minded shmucks.

I've seen plenty of good speeches, and it amazes me that you people believe this speech was good... or even newsworthy. Sure he added some French, and I'm sure that made Libs everywhere cream their jeans, but if this is the stuff the Left upholds in forums like this, you guys are a little ideologically -and intellectually- vacant.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
"Cliched platitudes" that are "Ideologically-and intellectually- vacant"?

Kinda like the "morals and values" of "compassionate conservatism"?
 

tacojerome

Banned
Dec 1, 2006
5
0
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"Cliched platitudes" that are "Ideologically-and intellectually- vacant"?

Kinda like the "morals and values" of "compassionate conservatism"?

Um... similar, but worse.

At least you admit it.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Sour grapes, cwjerome?

What part of "fiscally responsible and socially progressive" fails to define policy?

I think it's a very good speech, and that Dean's election strategy has served the country well. Hopefully, we'll see more of the same in both regards, and that we can proceed in cleaning up the mess created with the so-called "values" of the far Right- mostly a smokescreen for the biggest looting spree in the history of the world...

Sour grapes, over what?

Fiscally responsible and socially progressive? Anything beyond the CLICHED platitudes? Seriously, this is what you consider a great speech? Wow. It was a rah-rah, feel-good blurb for like-minded shmucks.

I've seen plenty of good speeches, and it amazes me that you people believe this speech was good... or even newsworthy. Sure he added some French, and I'm sure that made Libs everywhere cream their jeans, but if this is the stuff the Left upholds in forums like this, you guys are a little ideologically -and intellectually- vacant.

Hehe, well it wasn't a speech children will learn in Elementary School and recite in public to the delight of their parents, but it was good nonetheless. It was coherent, non condescending, free of Bushisms, basically everything a good speech contains.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Similar, but worse?

Your partisanship is showing, rather badly... It's difficult to imagine slogans more vague and vacant than the two I quoted above- they mean whatever the listener wants them to mean... seeking specifically to disconnect that listener from any sort of objective reality...

Part of what Dean pointed out, rather adroitly, is that voters soon recognize empty and emotionally loaded phraseology for what it is, empty and self-serving, intended only to capture votes rather than to refer directly to any sort of action...

No child left behind...

Clear skies initiative...

Healthy forests...

Freeing the Iraqi people...

War on terror...

Roadmap to peace...

Department of homeland security...

Senior drug benefit...

Rhetorical devices designed to trap the unwary into thinking that the speaker said what the listener wanted them to have said... platitudes intended not just to soothe, but to deceive.

"Fiscally responsible", is, at least, quantifiable, a matter of arithmetic, even if we could disagree as to how well we like the means used to achieve it...
 

tacojerome

Banned
Dec 1, 2006
5
0
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
... gobblygook...

Relax, deep breaths... hatred clouds your vision political warrior. This is not about healthy forests or the war on terror. I am not a compassionate conservative. Spin your web of rationalizations, but I am not defending your strawmen and diversions (Which are entertaining in a silly kind of way).

I am saying Dean's speech is not noteworthy in the least. It's pretty much like any other speech from any other politician. Sure, we might not get to hear a cool new word Bush made up, but once you cast the warm fuzzies aside concerning our national friendship, it's just a hollow, standard script from an annoying douche.

Try something out of character: Post something that isn't essentially "But, But, But, those EVAL! republicans...[fill in the blank]...!!
 

LcarsSystem

Senior member
Mar 13, 2006
691
0
0
Originally posted by: tacojerome
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
... gobblygook...

Relax, deep breaths... hatred clouds your vision political warrior. This is not about healthy forests or the war on terror. I am not a compassionate conservative. Spin your web of rationalizations, but I am not defending your strawmen and diversions (Which are entertaining in a silly kind of way).

I am saying Dean's speech is not noteworthy in the least. It's pretty much like any other speech from any other politician. Sure, we might not get to hear a cool new word Bush made up, but once you cast the warm fuzzies aside concerning our national friendship, it's just a hollow, standard script from an annoying douche.

Try something out of character: Post something that isn't essentially "But, But, But, those EVAL! republicans...[fill in the blank]...!!

Explain to me why in your mind he is worthy of this insult.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Why? Because cwjerome accuses Dean of stealing a page from the rightwing playbook, in the usual backhanded fashion, and I called him on it...

Dismissing Dean as platitudinous is like dismissing the Media as "Liberal"...

When the adherents of vacuous platitudes and catchphrase sloganeering exhibit that particular kind of gall, it's an insult to the intelligence of even their own following...

Or, don't criticize the mote in the other fellow's eye when there's a beam in your own...
 

tacojerome

Banned
Dec 1, 2006
5
0
0
Jhhnn, I know you've built yourself some elaborate mental political fantasyland, but if you think using empty cliches and unoriginal rhetoric is solely the realm of a "rightwing" playbook, you're even more deluded than I imagined. It's like you're trapped in the lies of your own propaganda.

Well I hate to burst your precious bubble of a worldview, but I am not like you. I'm not part of some team, I am not some political operative, hack or tool, and I don't have some organizational agenda. So when you endlessly echo the 2nd grade retort "But your side is worse!" it's kinda meaningless.

Not only is it pathetic when you say "don't criticize the mote in the other fellow's eye when there's a beam in your own", it's the height of disingenuousness and hypocrisy. Such cognitive dissonance might lead to schizophrenia :Q
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,481
4,552
136
Originally posted by: tacojerome
Jhhnn, I know you've built yourself some elaborate mental political fantasyland, but if you think using empty cliches and unoriginal rhetoric is solely the realm of a "rightwing" playbook, you're even more deluded than I imagined. It's like you're trapped in the lies of your own propaganda.

Well I hate to burst your precious bubble of a worldview, but I am not like you. I'm not part of some team, I am not some political operative, hack or tool, and I don't have some organizational agenda. So when you endlessly echo the 2nd grade retort "But your side is worse!" it's kinda meaningless.

Not only is it pathetic when you say "don't criticize the mote in the other fellow's eye when there's a beam in your own", it's the height of disingenuousness and hypocrisy. Such cognitive dissonance might lead to schizophrenia :Q



Have you created this new username to try to double-team?
:frown:
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,446
7,508
136
Originally posted by: Privateman
Howard Dean=Your average wacko liberal democrat

They are the growing demographic in this country. I'd be careful on what you call them, you just might realize high school and colleges produce an abundant majority making you and me a soon to be marginalized minority. If we do not appeal to them, we?ll never be able to stand in the way of following Europe?s ruin.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: Chicken Little
[
They are the growing demographic in this country. I'd be careful on what you call them, you just might realize high school and colleges produce an abundant majority making you and me a soon to be marginalized minority. If we do not appeal to them, we?ll never be able to stand in the way of following Europe?s ruin.
:roll:

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
I watched it, and read the transcript. Nothing wrong with it. But as cwjerome said, it's a pretty typical speech by a politician. Not sure what's so great about it.

Transcript:

Good evening, and thank you.

Frank McKenna, you are a great leader and a great friend. You've been a principled caretaker of the relationship between our two countries. I thank you for that.

And I thank you all for sitting through that video.

That was something. My father would have enjoyed it. My mother - she would have believed it.

Of course the truth is, in this business, success like we had earlier this month in our midterm elections, takes a lot of people working together.

Our 50 state strategy was about people coming together, fighting for what we believe in, and working as hard as they possibly could.

It had to do with partnership.

And that's one of the things I want to speak about tonight.

Parce que je crois, à la lumière des résultats de cette élection, que nous pouvons à nouveau bénéficier d'un partenariat entre les Etats-Unis et le Canada...D'un véritable partenariat...D'un partenariat fondé sur la coopération et la vérité, le respect mutuel et l'égalité.

English Translation: Because I believe, as a result of that election... and as far as the United States and Canada are concerned... Once again, we can have a partnership. A real partnership. A partnership based on cooperation and truth, mutual respect and equality.

That is the kind of relationship that people in border communities - like my home state of Vermont - know so well.

And that is why tonight, I say to my friends, my neighbors, and the delegates of the Liberal Party of Canada...

Je me sens privilégié et suis hautement honoré d'être ici parmi vous ce soir. En fait, j'en suis si crier que je pourrais hurler. Mais, rassurez-vous.

Je ne le ferai pas. Mais je le pourrais..

English Translation: It is a great privilege and honor for me to be here tonight. In fact, I?m so happy I could scream. I will not. But I could.

Let's just say I learned my lesson the hard way.

It's an honor to be here because we all know that the relationship between Canada and the United States - is as important in principle and promise as it is close in proximity.

I'm sure you all remember the Ice Storm of 1998. At its worst, here in Canada, there were well over a million people without power.... and many, many more without power in the northeastern United States.

And cities like St Jean sur Richelieu, in the area that became known as the triangle noir, were particularly hard hit. Forced to go without power for weeks on end.

But there was a flicker of hope. A line was put up - literally an extension cord of good will and cooperation - connected to a power source in Vermont.

Utility companies didn't complain. It wasn't about what regulators said we could or couldn't do. People didn't waste time looking for excuses.

It was about people saying they could help out... and then doing it. Because it was right. It's what you do for your neighbor.

Same thing when wildfires swept through Montana this past summer. Fire fighters from Alberta were on the ground battling 25 different fires. They were offering their help; they were risking their lives.

And it was Canadian emergency responders who were among the first on the ground in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Just one of many reasons why Canada is so often thought of as the conscience of the world.

There are other instances that illustrate our nations' relationship.

In Washington DC, there is only one embassy that sits between our two institutions of federal government - the White House and the Capitol.

It is the Canadian Embassy. And I think it is more than symbolic.

The point is: we are connected by more than an occasional power line. More than the extremely important commercial interests and agreements. More than a border - even one that stretches all the way from New Brunswick to British Columbia, Maine to Washington State.

We are connected by shared values. We share ideals.

And chief among them is our belief in democracy.

Our political systems are different, but the principles are the same. Regardless of party, we are fortunate to live in societies where we regularly exercise our democratic rights in peace and prosperity. And we are lucky to have talented and selfless individuals, like those running for the leadership of the Liberal Party, willing to offer themselves for public service.

The point is, we have choices.

But make no mistake - those choices and their consequences matter. They matter greatly.

I believe there will be many changes now that the Democratic Party has finally regained control of the Senate and the House of Representatives. And just one of these will be renewing our relationship around the world.

As I said at the onset, once again, we can have a partnership. A real partnership. A partnership based on cooperation and truth, mutual respect and equality.

But first there is work to do.

The Democratic Party had a great day a few weeks ago. But it was the start of our rebuilding, not the end.

Still, I believe there are two main lessons from our success. Lessons for progressive parties everywhere.

Simply put, they have to do with the place of power and how it's practiced.

By the place of power, I mean where it resides.

And that is with the people.

It does not work its way from the top down.

It grows from the grassroots up.

It grows not just in the areas that have traditionally supported you. Whether it is the Liberal Party or the Democratic Party, we should never cede a single region or province, never cede a single state or city. Nor should we ever cede a single voter. Not a single one. It is a mark of respect for the voters that we ask each one for their vote regardless of the likelihood of getting it. This is what we call the 50-state strategy.

We shouldn't just court big donors; we must include small contributors.

We have had to transform ourselves into a Party that could communicate with its supporters and with all of our citizens... in the traditional ways... but also in new ways. By using the power and potential of technology as part of an aggressive outreach to meet and include voters and to get our message out.

But at the end of the day -- whether we're talking 50-states or a 13 provinces and territories -- it's pretty simple.

It's just this: Show up everywhere. And work hard everywhere.

Knock on doors everywhere. Make the calls everywhere. Shake hands everywhere. Do the hard work everywhere.

And keep doing it... because that's what running a permanent campaign takes.

So for us, that work won't stop. But I think on November 7th, the American voters demonstrated that if Democrats do these things...

If we show up, work hard and ask people for their votes...we can win in any part of our country.

My party took a major step in this election towards our goal of being a national party again. We won in places that some thought we couldn't. And we earned the votes of people who not have voted for a Democrat in a very long time.

We even earned some votes from people who hadn't even seen a Democrat in quite some time.

We did it by investing early. We did it by investing at the state level, laying the foundation that our outstanding candidates needed to be successful.

But most of all, we did it by showing up in every state in the country and reaching out to all of our citizens, regardless of party or religious affiliation. We did it by talking about our values, and the beliefs we share.

We went to where power resides. And we proved... if we competed in the most conservative parts of the country, we could win ... at any level, anywhere.

Believe it or not, I'm not much of a zen person.

But I've found that the path to power, oddly enough, is to trust others with it. That means remembering the power is where the voters are.

That's the first step to rebuilding a party.

The second step has to do with how we put the power into practice. First, remember it's on loan. Next, fight for what you believe in.

When my party was wandering in the wilderness, there were those who said we should change direction... that we should become more like the Republican Party whose policies and priorities we disagreed with.

When you say that, in essence you are arguing that our basic and guiding principles can be altered or modified.

More than that, you're conceding that those principles may be wrong.

They are not. Our basic principles remain as true as ever. We - Democrats in the United States and Liberals in Canada - share a belief in the same thing -- fiscally responsible, socially progressive values.

And in fact, most Americans -- and I'm quite certain, most Canadians -- support that way of governing.

After all it was our parties - under Bill Clinton and under Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin - who balanced the budgets and ushered in prosperity.

And it was our parties who created and believe in the social safety net.

We're the ones who believe that a bright future goes through our schools and that college should be available for all.

We believe that everyone deserves health care. Thanks to the Liberal Party, Canada has been delivering it for some time. And in the United States, we can learn from you as we work to provide our citizens access to affordable health care.

We believe in embracing innovation and the search for new cures. People here in Montreal know that. My wife, who did a fellowship for McGill for a year knows that, and as a doctor myself, I can tell you: access and innovation lead to health and hope.

We believe that a truly "just society," to use Pierre Trudeau's words... recognizes the fairness of human and civil rights... another area where we would do well copying Canada's conscience... and learning from the people in this room and those who came before you.

Our parties believe that a good job is the foundation of a strong family, a strong community, and a strong country; and we believe that a lifetime of work earns you a retirement with dignity.

Our parties believe to be good citizens of the world community... we have to be good stewards of the environment.

We believe in an honest, open government.

And - yes - we agree on the importance of a smart and strong national security policy, one that includes a change of course in Iraq.

I think President Clinton may have said it best: we shouldn't stay the course. We should "stop and think."

That's what the American people said loudly and clearly during our mid-term elections.

Whenever there is a big election, and particularly one where there is a big power shift -- like the one we had a few weeks ago... and like the one your Liberal Party will have soon enough -- there is always, it seems, as much analysis as there is voting.

And in the days before and after our mid-terms, there was a lot of talk about two kinds of prevailing political strategies.

One feeds on fear... depends on our differences... and ultimately, conquers by dividing.

That is not sustainable.

The other strategy is about hope and promise. We trust people and we bring them together. We appreciate our differences and we focus on our similarities...we say our diversity does not divide us, it defines us. We propose we meet our shared challenges with shared solutions.

The Democratic Party and the Liberal Party are the 'we' parties, our opponents too often are the 'me' parties.

This year we trusted people and brought them together. We are at our best when we create and inspire a sense of community.

That is true of our politics. And it is true of the special relationship between our two countries.

If we always remember that...

If we stand up for what we believe in...

If we show up everywhere and work hard everywhere...

And if we remember that power does not belong to us, it is loaned to us...

I have no doubt, in Canada and the United States... our greatest victories.and our nations' greatest days... are still ahead.