Originally posted by: fyleow
Wait are we talking about a masters degree? I should read posts before replying
No, he's saying that since Harvey Mudd (an excellent school) doesn't have a PhD program, it won't be ranked with other schools that have a PhD program, which is what his list ranks.
Huh? Howzat? That's only the case if he actually receives a substantial scholarship from Dartmouth. Otherwise I don't see how you can have a high ROI on a high-dollar degree in the engineering field.
Originally posted by: fyleow
Wait are we talking about a masters degree? I should read posts before replying
Well, engineering programs are generally ranked according to the graduate schools. Undergrad schools are generally ranked by overall reputation or something. But, if a school isn't a doctoral school then it won't be ranked with schools that do have doctoral programs. So, Harvey Mudd doesn't offer graduate programs (I'm guessing) so it's obviously not on the engineering ranked list. But, it's also not on the main overall undergrad ranking list because it doesn't have a doctoral program. Kind of weird, but that's how they generally rank them.
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: fyleow
Wait are we talking about a masters degree? I should read posts before replying
Well, engineering programs are generally ranked according to the graduate schools. Undergrad schools are generally ranked by overall reputation or something. But, if a school isn't a doctoral school then it won't be ranked with schools that do have doctoral programs. So, Harvey Mudd doesn't offer graduate programs (I'm guessing) so it's obviously not on the engineering ranked list. But, it's also not on the main overall undergrad ranking list because it doesn't have a doctoral program. Kind of weird, but that's how they generally rank them.
Oh okay.
How is the engineering program at Columbia? Not very good I'm thinking? I am applying to Reed and Williams and they both have a 5 year thing where you do 2 years at Columbia (or Cal Tech for Reed). I was like WTF, Columbia isn't even ranked for Engineering...
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: fyleow
Wait are we talking about a masters degree? I should read posts before replying
Well, engineering programs are generally ranked according to the graduate schools. Undergrad schools are generally ranked by overall reputation or something. But, if a school isn't a doctoral school then it won't be ranked with schools that do have doctoral programs. So, Harvey Mudd doesn't offer graduate programs (I'm guessing) so it's obviously not on the engineering ranked list. But, it's also not on the main overall undergrad ranking list because it doesn't have a doctoral program. Kind of weird, but that's how they generally rank them.
Oh okay.
How is the engineering program at Columbia? Not very good I'm thinking? I am applying to Reed and Williams and they both have a 5 year thing where you do 2 years at Columbia (or Cal Tech for Reed). I was like WTF, Columbia isn't even ranked for Engineering...
Originally posted by: fyleow
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: fyleow
Wait are we talking about a masters degree? I should read posts before replying
Well, engineering programs are generally ranked according to the graduate schools. Undergrad schools are generally ranked by overall reputation or something. But, if a school isn't a doctoral school then it won't be ranked with schools that do have doctoral programs. So, Harvey Mudd doesn't offer graduate programs (I'm guessing) so it's obviously not on the engineering ranked list. But, it's also not on the main overall undergrad ranking list because it doesn't have a doctoral program. Kind of weird, but that's how they generally rank them.
Oh okay.
How is the engineering program at Columbia? Not very good I'm thinking? I am applying to Reed and Williams and they both have a 5 year thing where you do 2 years at Columbia (or Cal Tech for Reed). I was like WTF, Columbia isn't even ranked for Engineering...
It's good. It's overall rank is 26. Rankings can give you some general ideas, but I wouldn't rely on them 100%. Personally I would think that someone at Columbia is smarter than someone at a place like Univ. of MN (which is ranked higher)
Oh okay.
How is the engineering program at Columbia? Not very good I'm thinking? I am applying to Reed and Williams and they both have a 5 year thing where you do 2 years at Columbia (or Cal Tech for Reed). I was like WTF, Columbia isn't even ranked for Engineering...[/quote]
Depends on what you want to go for. I think all the departments are pretty good. Each have their strongpoints. You learn the same stuff as "pure" engineering schools anyway. Its also what you make of it yourself. A lot of people are really lazy at Columbia. Lazy = take easy classes or just not care about school. Basically the main thing about Columbia's engineering school - if you just want to be an engineer, Columbia is probably not a good fit for you. A large precentage of Columbia engineering graduates never practice engineering.
Depends on what you want to go for. I think all the departments are pretty good. Each have their strongpoints. You learn the same stuff as "pure" engineering schools anyway. Its also what you make of it yourself. A lot of people are really lazy at Columbia. Lazy = take easy classes or just not care about school. Basically the main thing about Columbia's engineering school - if you just want to be an engineer, Columbia is probably not a good fit for you. A large precentage of Columbia engineering graduates never practice engineering.[/quote]
Well I'm not really sure I want to get into engineering right now. My plan tentatively is to get a B.A in Chemistry and a B.S. in Chemical Engineering through the programs at Williams or Reed. My chances of getting into Reed is higher than Williams anyway and I could probably opt for the Cal Tech route instead and do EE or CE. Whatever happens I fully intend to go to graduate school when it's possible so I'm just trying to increase my chances of getting into a prestigious graduate school by getting into a good undergrad one.
Eh, I'm a dreamer though. Most likely I'll end up at a UC, probably SD. Their engineering school is not bad either so I'm not complaining
EDIT: Oh cool, just saw your sig and you go to Columbia! How do you like it there? Do you plan on doing engineering when you get out?
Originally posted by: fyleow
Well I'm not really sure I want to get into engineering right now. My plan tentatively is to get a B.A in Chemistry and a B.S. in Chemical Engineering through the programs at Williams or Reed. My chances of getting into Reed is higher than Williams anyway and I could probably opt for the Cal Tech route instead and do EE or CE. Whatever happens I fully intend to go to graduate school when it's possible so I'm just trying to increase my chances of getting into a prestigious graduate school by getting into a good undergrad one.
Eh, I'm a dreamer though. Most likely I'll end up at a UC, probably SD. Their engineering school is not bad either so I'm not complaining
EDIT: Oh cool, just saw your sig and you go to Columbia! How do you like it there? Do you plan on doing engineering when you get out?
Oh hell no I am not doing engineering. I'm planning on getting my masters in Operations Research and also a masters in Financial Engineering. After that, not sure. Maybe a PhD (only if I don't feel like working in the "real world"), or try to get into columbia business school. Its pretty good here, the college life is pretty much the same as any other school. Costs are really high though.
I took a two class there for free because my high school is in their local area. The class where CS class and the professor seemed to really know their stuff. It might have changed but they like most colleges are having a housing shortage and local rentales are sky high for the area because all the rich college students. There med school is world class and dartmouth ownes the local hospital, DHMS.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
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Best friend from HS goes to Dartmouth, it suits him quite well. As far as name recognition, Dartmouth will be excellent for engineering. Not too sure about the actually program but I doubt that the actual education is much (if at all) inferior to the reputation.
ZV
ZV
Originally posted by: fyleow
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: fyleow
Wait are we talking about a masters degree? I should read posts before replying
Well, engineering programs are generally ranked according to the graduate schools. Undergrad schools are generally ranked by overall reputation or something. But, if a school isn't a doctoral school then it won't be ranked with schools that do have doctoral programs. So, Harvey Mudd doesn't offer graduate programs (I'm guessing) so it's obviously not on the engineering ranked list. But, it's also not on the main overall undergrad ranking list because it doesn't have a doctoral program. Kind of weird, but that's how they generally rank them.
Oh okay.
How is the engineering program at Columbia? Not very good I'm thinking? I am applying to Reed and Williams and they both have a 5 year thing where you do 2 years at Columbia (or Cal Tech for Reed). I was like WTF, Columbia isn't even ranked for Engineering...
Undergraduate only programs are ranked separately. Tops of the list are going to be Harvey Mudd, Rose-Hulman, Cooper Union, and after those the military acadamies.
What school is the best fit for you is more important than its rankings (when I looked I really liked Harvey Mudd, hated CalTech) so visit some campuses and talk to the students. For biomedical engineering any good all around education is fine (and Dartmouth offers one) because you'll probably go into grad school somewhere else to specialize. The top programs in biomedical are probably Duke and Hopkins - a lot of traditional engineering schools aren't as strong in biology and chem as those two. I know for certain that Duke is tops in bio applications of math.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
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I know Dartmouth well, although my knowledge of the engineering program is limited. Dartmouth is a wonderful school.
Two things,
First, I think you are correct in that financial aid will be more substantial and easier to obtain as a native American than just about anywhere else.
and
Two, Dartmouth has just about the best "old boy" network of any school. If you are a Dartmouth grad, you will get a lot of help in getting into graduate programs.
I think Dartmouth is an excellent choice for you.
Two things,
First, I think you are correct in that financial aid will be more substantial and easier to obtain as a native American than just about anywhere else.
and
Two, Dartmouth has just about the best "old boy" network of any school. If you are a Dartmouth grad, you will get a lot of help in getting into graduate programs.
I think Dartmouth is an excellent choice for you.
Undergrad school is what you make it. The amount of education you receive in undergraduate school is trivial--you could receive it ANYWHERE. Its how you process it. Having other good students in your classes helps.... but you know what? Statics is the same everywhere.
On to Dartmouth: Dartmouth is a very good school overall. If you can go there for a substantially reduced price, great. It also depends on your home state, as well--there are quite a few good state-supported engineering schools.
Personal thoughts: rankings for undergrad schools are completely out of whack. They're frequently based on the opinions of people's graduates. Not necessarily recent graduates--there are quite a few schools who have changed drastically over the past twenty years. Not necessarily in correlation to what innate abilities they have (of course MIT graduates a lot of good students... if your average SAT score was 1450, you would too.... but there are some really brilliant people who had a 1450 that came from middle-of-nowhere-U). Going to a good school helps.... but not as much as your other qualifications. A 2.0 from X-Univ ranked #1 will SELDOM get you a job over a 3.7 at Y-Univ ranked #10. Not to mention, a lack of extracurriculars, taking "creampuff" electives, and no job experience (like summer internships) will screw you no matter WHERE you go. Graduate rankings are stupid by nature--because your advisor is what matters. I've seen schools (in certain "specializations") go from top 10 to nowhere-on-the-list because Dr. So-and-So left to go to U-Wherever (and U-Wherever jumps from 105 to #6).
In short (Because someone will go "cliff notes" because they can't read as much as a 7 year old does), find a school you like that has a decent reputation. Dartmouth would qualify as that. Don't break the bank. If you love engineering, you'll be going to graduate school. Now that is something that where you go (and who you work for) matters a GREAT DEAL.... and then you can start playing politics.
Best of luck to you!
On to Dartmouth: Dartmouth is a very good school overall. If you can go there for a substantially reduced price, great. It also depends on your home state, as well--there are quite a few good state-supported engineering schools.
Personal thoughts: rankings for undergrad schools are completely out of whack. They're frequently based on the opinions of people's graduates. Not necessarily recent graduates--there are quite a few schools who have changed drastically over the past twenty years. Not necessarily in correlation to what innate abilities they have (of course MIT graduates a lot of good students... if your average SAT score was 1450, you would too.... but there are some really brilliant people who had a 1450 that came from middle-of-nowhere-U). Going to a good school helps.... but not as much as your other qualifications. A 2.0 from X-Univ ranked #1 will SELDOM get you a job over a 3.7 at Y-Univ ranked #10. Not to mention, a lack of extracurriculars, taking "creampuff" electives, and no job experience (like summer internships) will screw you no matter WHERE you go. Graduate rankings are stupid by nature--because your advisor is what matters. I've seen schools (in certain "specializations") go from top 10 to nowhere-on-the-list because Dr. So-and-So left to go to U-Wherever (and U-Wherever jumps from 105 to #6).
In short (Because someone will go "cliff notes" because they can't read as much as a 7 year old does), find a school you like that has a decent reputation. Dartmouth would qualify as that. Don't break the bank. If you love engineering, you'll be going to graduate school. Now that is something that where you go (and who you work for) matters a GREAT DEAL.... and then you can start playing politics.
Best of luck to you!
Personally I'd rather learn how to be an engineer. I respect good schools, but if you are only there for 4 or 5 years, you can only learn so much. And if I have to decide between engineering and liberal arts, it's no contest for engineering. And any engineer who would decide otherwise doesn't deserve the title.
Yes, and I'm sure I'll get some Ivy League stuck up snob telling me that "well rounded" is the way to be. If you get a good engineering degree, more power to you. But if you sacrificed engineering knowledge to read poetry, you might have studied engineering, but you sure as hell aren't an engineer.
And I haven't heard all that great things about Dartmouth's engineering program relative to how much it costs and how difficult it is to get in. Plus, as you can tell, I'm not a big fan of "well rounded", and, like most Ivy League schools, I believe Dartmouth is really into that.
The above is JMHO, sorry if you Ivy Leaguers take offense. I'm just sick of this well rounded push for engineers, especially liberal arts well-roundedness.
You really don't seem to understand the thinking of a well-rounded engineer. First off, you can get a solid engineering background wherever you go, Ivy or not. Specifically at the Ivies, which are not really known for engineering, you can still choose to be a hardcore engineer if you want. But the truth is, most engineers at Ivies don't end up becoming engineers. They use their engineering backgrounds as solid bases for careers/studies in other subjects, such as law, business, and medicine.
That being said, whats wrong with being a well-rounded engineer? Sure, having a solid engineering background is great. But if that's all you know, how far is that knowledge going to get you? Today's engineer needs to know how to write, present, and interact with others. Companies no longer want the geek with no people skills. How are you going to talk to a client if all you know is engineering? You wouldn't be able to discuss and analyze the latest happenings in economics, politics, and etc. If you don't take any writing courses, how will you write your technical reports and other briefings to managers and clients? If you don't take any economics and finance courses, how will you be able to budget a project and decide whether or not to pursue the project? This is where the well-roundedness comes in.
Additionally, engineers have more than 1 passion. Some enjoy poetry, music, and art. And if they choose to study that along with engineering, what right do you have to look down on them? The more knowledge they absorb, the more eclectic they are.
Sure, if you want to just learn engineering, that's fine too. But there's just no reason to bash on the engineers who want to be more "well-rounded."
For biomedical engineering you pretty much have it nailed with John Hopkins, Duke, and Stanford. I'd add UC San Diego to the list. I'm a biomedical engineering grad student currently and my advice to you is to go wherever the money is. That's easy for me to say though I guess since I already have a job in the field!
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