How would you guys improve this website?

ManBearPig

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
9,173
6
81
http://www.etzchaimindy.org/

My brother in law made a website for our synagogue, and he was wondering what kind of things he should add/take away/change, just any ideas or opinions would be welcomed. Thanks...

i think he built it using frontpage
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Sorry to be blunt, but that screams 'newbie' to me, like someone's first attempt at a website. Since it probably is his first attempt, we can forgive him :D, but I'm gonna be harsh anyway.

1) Never use Times New Roman. IMO the only font fit for use on the web is arial.
2) Blue scrolling text and flashing green 'updated' symbols are bad. Bordered HTML tables are bad.
3) The menu on the left is completely out of place with the rest of the site and is obviously ripped from somewhere else.
4) Messy messy messy. Do you need all 3 of those pics there? Do you really like the look of those 'embossed' frame things?

He needs to look at how other sites are designed. Check out anandtech.com, slashdot.org, digg.com - any mojor site. See how they use color, how they use space and margins, etc. Doesn't need to be complicated, in fact, the simpler the better.

 

MrChad

Lifer
Aug 22, 2001
13,507
3
81
It's a fairly clean design, but here are the things that jump out at me.

1. The layout on the front page is very horizontal. It looks fine on my widescreen monitor, but if I shrink my browser window down, the content bunches up and becomes difficult to read.
2. Animated GIFs are a bit cheezy and amateurish. I'm not a huge fan.
3. Also not a fan of hyperlinks where the width of the text changes when I mouse-over them.
4. The screen is very white. Some color banners to break up the monotony might help.
5. Your headlines could be in bold, san-serif font (like Arial or Verdana) to make them stand out from the regular Times New Roman text.

It looks like he's off to a pretty good start though.
 
Jun 4, 2005
19,723
1
0
I might be repeating what others have said, but I'm too lazy to go through all of what they said, so I'll point things out that I've noticed.

1. There's no background. While I'm normally all for simplicity, a little too much simplicity is just called "plain". Even a little off-white background colour would do your website a world of good, and I would suggest you look into it. The entire web is full of whitespace; don't add to it.

2. Your banner doesn't mean anything to me. I have no idea what your site is about, and I've looked over it quickly twice. As a normal user, I would have already hit the back button. You need to throw your content in my face, but dress it up and make it look nice so I don't run away. This means....get rid of that animated GIF in the banner. First; animated .gif's are dead. Flash seems to be the way of the future, and unless you're catering to 56k; I would suggest you use it. While I don't always advocate the "new" stuff just because it's...new, I think in this case, the animation you have is boring and out of place.

3. The three images in the middle. Based on the image effects and the colours, I would almost guess that you randomly slapped them all together. Looking closer, I can see they share the same sort of bevel. Well, this isn't very pronounced. You need to draw me into the images; make me want to look at them. But, I shouldn't have to think about what's going on, I should know what I'm looking at right away. Aim for clarity. The image in the middle doesn't make any sense to me. Why does it fade in on mouse-over? Is there a specific purpose for this? It's a bit of an eye sore.

4. The scrolling box on the left needs some work. Generally, I would suggest not using them, however, they can bring new life to the webpage if used properly. I can honestly say that the only time I've ever seen these effects on a website that hasn't bothered me is when they're placed on the extreme left, or the extreme right. They should not be "slightly off-center", in my opinion. It draws you out of the page.

5. Your hyperlinks should not change the text size. This is fine for the navigation, and I actually think that looks good. However, for the rest of the page, it pushes the rest of the text out of its place and even sometimes adds extra lines. I would suggest using a separate style for the two sets.

That's just my opinion, take it or leave it, it's up to you.
 

screw3d

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
6,906
1
76
IMO the only font fit for use on the web is arial.
Arial is a print font, and is a poor imitation of helvetica.

Use Verdana for sans-serif and Georgia for serif fonts. They are both designed for screen use and are very widely adopted. In any case, if you are using CSS, just specify a few of them in order of preference like font-family: Verdana, Tahoma, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: screw3d
IMO the only font fit for use on the web is arial.
Arial is a print font, and is a poor imitation of helvetica.

Use Verdana for sans-serif and Georgia for serif fonts. They are both designed for screen use and are very widely adopted. In any case, if you are using CSS, just specify a few of them in order of preference like font-family: Verdana, Tahoma, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;

Woah! Font guru :D

<-- stands corrected
 

kamper

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2003
5,513
0
0
Stop making things move! It's insanely distracting and you're wasting my cpu cycles :confused:
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
That site looks like its from 1995. The only thing that doesn't hurt the eyes to look at is the menu and even that's fuxored with the useless expand and contract feature.
 

manno

Senior member
Dec 1, 2000
384
0
0
Hey, man that's some harsh criticism. And I hate to say it but I kind of have to agree with them to some degree. I can't give you any specifics, but I can say the best advice I've seen posted here was the advice of screw3d regarding fonts (She just taught me something too!). I'm also not a fan to the "Vegas-style neon sign" animated text, and graphics, but that's an opinion.

I'd be more concerned with the fact that if you take a step back and look at it, it doesn't look(to the eyes) like you had any real over-riding "theme" in terms of colors, layout, ect. I'm going to assume that this is one of your first websites, if not the first. You've probably just learned a lot of stuff in a short period of time. Technically it seems fairly solid, but when you get a visitor to your site you want their attention/eyes to focus on one thing. Keeping periphery information subdued is important. This is where color schemes, layout, animation and framing, not "frames" but framing in the sense of outlining what information is truly important. Try to keep the information being given to the visitor down to 1 type of information per "page".

For example If I go to check my email I want all the information on that page to pertain to my inbox. If I go to a news site I want all info on that from page to pertain to the articles available, and when I click on an article I want all info on the main part of the article's page to pertain to that article.

When we hit a shopping site. The first page should be
Main Categories: (Housewares | Computers | Cat Food)
sub category: (PC's | Laptops | PDA's)
product: (P4 512MB RAM | A64 1GB RAM | iMac C2Duo 1 GB RAM)
product info: (Info about the manufacturer | Video Memory | Ect.)

Let's look at your from page for instance. We have:

Title Block White Background
Blue text
Animated .gif of a different font & color
|
v
Some random pictures
Same white background
|
v
3 Column Table
Same white background
News Scroller
Grey Text
Blue Text
Grey, and Blue Text
Black Text
Black text with Green Background
Blue Italicized Text
All text is of a different size/color/ect. no uniformity at all

By my count there's 18 ? 20 different types of text
On the page. Between Size/Bolding/Italicizing/Color/Background

There is a lot of confusion on the page. We can't start with any one area. So lets start by figuring out where the eye is drawn too once the page is loaded... well it's kind of drawn everywhere, because there's a LOT of movement. So unless important information is involved with the movement lets get rid of it (Like the animated .gifs) or throw it off to the far lower right of the page because that's the last part of the page our eyes scan. Like the news scroller I personally would get rid of this all together, but that's just me. I can see why you would want it in there, but it should be moved.

So now we have only 1 moving element on the page, the news scroller, and we still have:

Title Block White Background
Blue text
|
v
Some random pictures
Same white background
|
v
3 Column Table
Same white background
News Scroller
Grey Text
Blue Text
Grey, and Blue Text
Black Text
Blue Italicized Text
All text is of a different size/color/ect. no uniformity at all

We're now down to about 16 ? 18 different types of text
On the page. Between Size/Bolding/Italicizing/Color/Background

Our eyes are pretty cool we have high detail in the center of our vision, and low detail, motion sensitive vision on the peripheries, this makes ?busy? stuff easy to ignore and ?empty? stuff more drawing to the eye. So we want the busy stuff, like menu bars for instance on the ?Borders? great we got that part right! The pictures however ?push? the eyes away from the center of the page, which ironically is where your brain wants them to look. So, honestly, the best thing to do is get them out of there. Put them in the ?Photo Gallery? that's what it's there for. What does the parking lot have to do with important ?Etz Chaim Sephardic Congregation? events? OK so now we have...

Title Block White Background
Blue text
|
v
3 Column Table
Same white background
News Scroller
Grey Text
Blue Text
Grey, and Blue Text
Black Text
Blue Italicized Text
All text is of a different size/color/ect. no uniformity at all

We're still at about 16 ? 18 different types of text
On the page. Between Size/Bolding/Italicizing/Color/Background

OK Great... ish now our brain wants to look at the Important stuff the table in the middle of the page, but what part of the table to look at?

The brain says ?The middle table.?

the eyes say ?No friggan way! Look at all the cool colors, patterns, shapes, and movement going on here! Let's look at it all at once, like we would a field of grass, and wildflowers! With millions of individual blades, with just as many hues of brown, green, blue and yellow.?

This is a problem... so let's try to keep the various fonts down to 3 or 4 on the whole page right now there's like 12 or 13 just in this one table. If you're keeping the news scroller in fine but we want the page to ?framed? accordingly

_H_
| x |
_F_

_H_ = Header ?framing?
| = border ?framing?
x = ?meat? of the page
_F_ = Footer

the right border, or the left border are optional.
The footer is optional

So we want to get rid of either ?Warm, Friendly, Traditional? or ?Shabbat times for Indianapolis, IN 46260?... I'd say ?Shabbat times for Indianapolis, IN 46260? Probably belongs on the menu bar. That eliminates 7 different text types in one fell swoop! And now we have only 6 left in the table itself. And we're now laid out so it's set up in the standard fashion, everyone has grown accustomed to reading in. So lets get the coloring/size/bolding/italicizing ect. Of the page text down to 3 or 4 types.

1 for the title block
1 for regular info
1 for important info
1 for whatever... maybe extraneous info, or something else you want

This way the visitor can quickly scan the list of items in the important text type, and decide which ones interest them, and then they can drill down further by reading the details in the regular text type. This also allows them to ignore the ?Title Block type? and/or the ?Whatever Type?

OK so lets talk coloring...

_H_
| x |
_F_

_H_ = Header ?Darker?
| = Border ?Dark or Darker?
x = ?meat? ?Lighter?
_F_ = Footer ?Darker or Darkest?

The lighter the color the more drawn the eye is to it, I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm going to say that very few people are going to type ?etzchaimindy.org? into their browsers by accident, so the title block doesn't need a lot of attention. The borders should be darker than the body because we want to ?highlight? the body, after all that's where all the important stuff is right? Obviously the footer(if you even use one) should be darker than the body as well. Again the whole point is to push the eye to the center of the page by making it the path of least resistance.

What colors should you choose... that I can't help you on I'll trust your judgment on it. I personally am terrible with color schemes, and frequently deffer my choices to a member of the fairer sex. Ask your girlfriend, or your sister, or whatever. I know it's sexist, but most guys suck at color schemes.

Good luck,
-manno
 

jameswhite1979

Senior member
Apr 15, 2005
367
0
0
Remove the table lines, I guess the picture would look better with out that PSP effect over them. White BG looks bright. Change the BG and mix in other elements. I am far from a wed designer OMG its been over 8 years now I am network deisgner but I put this together for my bro might give you an idea about the background and colours. http://www.markwhitemedia.com no comments on mine pls! past caring!
 

ahurtt

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2001
4,283
0
0
Ok first you definitely need a flaming logo. After that, add some blinking stuff. Then add in a song that plays in the background as soon as the page loads and make sure you don't let the user turn it off or they will miss your awesome song. Add lots more animated gifs too. The page is too boring and still. The background color should be something neon too.
 

mb

Lifer
Jun 27, 2004
10,233
2
71
I didn't see the before, but one thing I don't like is the color scheme.
 

igowerf

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2000
7,697
1
76
I don't think the design of the site fits its purpose. To be honest, it looks like an amateur hardware review site. Why am I allowed to expand and contract the navigation menu? Why does the logo flicker and pulse? The navigation menu also looks VERY similar to the one on Slashdot.

I would make it less flashy. I would also put up a nice picture or two of members or of the synagogue. A site like this should be friendly.

Do they have a logo or anything that they use on official documents, letterhead, newsletters, etc?
 

tfinch2

Lifer
Feb 3, 2004
22,114
1
0
It looks like you took different things from different websites that you like and blindly put them together.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
10 times better than what it was (not saying much), but the Sam Kinison style logo needs to go. I guess he just can't help having that blinky stuff going on.