How would you feel/handle this - Salary and time worked / time off

[Imdmn04]

If my boss is threatening to dock me for working less than 40 hours in one week (or not making it up), why should I not be counting that as a benchmark?

It is not a matter of right or wrong, it is a matter whether you can live with the current situation or not.

After all, you yourself said your boss is the owner, do you really think you can convince him what is supposedly right or wrong from your perspective?

 

[DCal430]

I've been salaried for years but this is the first boss/employer that bent the rules in his favor and actually tries (or says he will) dock my pay for not working 40 hours in one particular week.

Then that isn't really sallary, because here salary means you dont have to work 40 hours.

 

[Engineer]

Then that isn't really sallary, because here salary means you dont have to work 40 hours.

Salary means you get the same amount of pay per period regardless of hours worked. Whether it be 1 minute or 80 hours (whatever it takes to get the job done), the pay is the same with no docking/deductions for not working a set amount.

 

[Gillbot]

I've been salaried for years but this is the first boss/employer that bent the rules in his favor and actually tries (or says he will) dock my pay for not working 40 hours in one particular week.

i've been dealing with this for years

You have 3 choices:
1. Remain silent and be grumpy
2. See if boss can do anything about it
3. Get a job that fits your liking

All salaried workers are like this, you shouldn't be counting 40 hours as some sort of benchmark. If you don't like the situation, do something about it. If a raise is going to make you stomach this a little better, ask for one. If less hours will make you happier, then get a new job if the current job won't be able to offer that.

pretty much

 

[DCal430]

Salary means you get the same amount of pay per period regardless of hours worked. Whether it be 1 minute or 80 hours (whatever it takes to get the job done), the pay is the same with no docking/deductions for not working a set amount.

Yes so you shouldn't be docked for not working 40 hours.

 

[Engineer]

Yes so you shouldn't be docked for not working 40 hours.

That was my point all along, especially when he had already stated as much for at least 2 of the days.

By the way, there have been cases like this (where employers dock pay) that have been taken to the NLRB/court and that the employer was forced to pay overtime for the hours over 40 for the employee's entire working career since they docked the employee for hours under 40 worked (therefore making the job not a true, full rule salary position). That's not what I'm pushing for or wanting, just a FYI.

 

[heymrdj]

Yes so you shouldn't be docked for not working 40 hours.

They shouldn't...but they will. Normally in your salaried contract, at least in mine, it's a given that you WILL work 40 hours a week with dock of pay for any less, and that you will have to work more hours when requested without any expectation of increased pay.


Humanity in the work force is all but gone. We're all a bunch of rats in the race.

 

[Engineer]

They shouldn't...but they will. Normally in your salaried contract, at least in mine, it's a given that you WILL work 40 hours a week with dock of pay for any less, and that you will have to work more hours when requested without any expectation of increased pay.


Humanity in the work force is all but gone. We're all a bunch of rats in the race.

I could be wrong but as far as I know, that is against the law in the US. It's posted in our break area and it clearly states as such (if salary, must pay same amount and cannot dock even if employer doesn't have enough work to keep employee busy for 40 hours, etc).

 

[Engineer]

Update: My boss came back from vacation and could tell that I was pissed about the situation (add the fact that a co-worker ran and told him about everything going on). I decided to have the office manager run a report to see how many hours above 40 that I had worked since I took the 3 sick days and the 2 Christmas days off. It was enough to cover two of the days (slow right now). I then told the office manager to dock me for the 3 days sick and that would be the end of it. I assume she spoke to the boss (owner) and they decided to not dock me as my check hasn't been docked (maybe next week, lol?).

He called me in the office and asked if we were good. I didn't give him a resounding yes. He stated that he didn't mean it to escalate to what it did and that he didn't know exactly how many hours that I work at home. Suggested that I keep a log for my records (I'll do that from here on).

Anyway, things seem to be OK for now and as far as I'm concerned, it's behind me (one way or another). He seemed genuinely sorry about even bringing up the whole situation as he did not know exactly what I had or had not done.

 

[Doppel]

What do you guys/gals think of this situation? What would you do? I've had a rough time (pissed off most of the weekend) because of this and just don't know how to approach it. I really want to blow up but, at the same time, know it might be best to not to.

You are right to feel wronged because you were. First, anybody working consistently overtime without being paid (e.g. many salaried people) is either a sucker, loves his job, or is incapable of getting a job elsewhere (maybe because of economy).

I've been lucky enough over the years to have bosses who are not pedants when it comes to what time I'm in and hour. My current one, God love him, barely pays attention to any of us. But, what you described wouldn't fly with anybody I know, nor any boss I've ever had.

It could be time to start looking for another job, unless you're generally ok with this one other than what happened.

On top of that, I have had probably 100 hours of non-paid overtime that the company was paid for as time and material (i.e. company was paid and I was not) at 1.5 times normal rate ($150 per hour).

Now that right there, that is some bullsh*t. First place I ever worked I was salaried but any hours we did over the 40 they'd pay us a pretty decent per-hour bonus, this because we were all billing T&M as well. So it was a win for everyone. Then they turned into greedy pigs and stopped giving us the extra hours, which we would end up working for free. Not surprisingly our motivation to get those extra hours fell through the floor. And another place I was at salaried, all billing on T&M and anything over 40 you got some pathetic bonus year-end equivalent to around $5/hour. Chances are anybody billing at any kind of decent rate is able to calculate basic numbers and knows they are being screwed.

 

[Bignate603]

That's not counting the hundreds of hours spent at home and not on record to get job done.

You need to start recording everything. If you're doing work for the company you should log the time. If possible in the system you use to track your time you should note what you were working on to make it harder to claim that you were just padding your time.

 

[Engineer]

You need to start recording everything. If you're doing work for the company you should log the time. If possible in the system you use to track your time you should note what you were working on to make it harder to claim that you were just padding your time.

I'll do just that. Most of the time, I pull my daily work from the server (backed up) using GBridge, work on it at home (using a virtual machine image of my work laptop with all of the installed software), and then e-mail the files back to myself at work. Hell, that alone shows the many times that I work at home and send the files to myself (can't send them back to server using GBridge, only download, no upload - so I have to e-mail the work back).

 

[brianmanahan]

ive worked with people like that, i wanted it to work but getting ahead regardless of the cost to my sanity was always their motive. so i just kept an eye out for other opportunities then jumped ship when i got the chance.

 

[Rastus]

Every place I've ever worked screwed people on comp time.

 

[Gibson486]

I told you...service based engineering sucks.

I learned just to deal with it. So, you budgeted 50 hours, but you actually need 70. Not my dam fault. I will bill 70 if i need to. At the end of the day, all the higher ups look at your utilization as your benchmark. They do not take into account how you billed 50 hours, but really worked 70.

 

[Jumpem]

Find a new job.

Last week my manager was walking around Friday mid-morning asking people to go home since they had already reached forty hours. We actually have to be approved for overtime. And you usually need to make a good case for it to happen.

 

[SandEagle]

take an extra hour during lunch for the next 500 days. that should cover it

 

[lxskllr]

AFAIC when you're salary, you come and go as you please. That's the benefit of salary. You lose overtime in exchange for flexibility. Not a legal fucking by the employer.

 

[Engineer]

AFAIC when you're salary, you come and go as you please. That's the benefit of salary. You lose overtime in exchange for flexibility. Not a legal fucking by the employer.

That's the way you, I and most of the forum see it (other than a few of the pro-corporation folks around here) but many of the employers see it as a one way street going in their direction.

 

[FoBoT]

that is the problem with 'informal' agreements, if both parties are not on the same page, you get screwed

don't work overtime without a formal agreement if the 'boss' is a 'bosshole', like you are describing

 

[Engineer]

that is the problem with 'informal' agreements, if both parties are not on the same page, you get screwed

don't work overtime without a formal agreement if the 'boss' is a 'bosshole', like you are describing

The problem is that the boss is generally (95% of the time) a very good boss and a great person. It's only when it comes to this situation he seems to change. I am, like others have stated, thinking he has no idea what kind of time I'm putting in (both at home and away). He only notices when I'm out.

As far as "informal", I'm thinking that it's covered by US labor law (i.e. if I'm salary, I get paid the same no matter what, period, done, end of story). If I'm not doing my job, then fire me. Don't dock me for nickle and dime stuff as that is against the law.

To Gibson, you're right. He has gotten to the point that he has no idea what it takes to do a project and I'm not sure he really ever did. He was the EE doing the projects before hiring me. However, he never turns in or keeps track of his time so he just throws a number out there. Never accounts for the fact that the controller we are using for a project might be new to me and gives me the same amount of time that he would give me on a project that the controller is one that I've used 50 times (i.e. no time for a learning curve).

Regardless, I'll take steps to make sure that I'm covered (at least as far as records) and just step more carefully next time. Once I get to October and 2 weeks vacation, things will be slightly more easy.

 

[Gibson486]

That's the way you, I and most of the forum see it (other than a few of the pro-corporation folks around here) but many of the employers see it as a one way street going in their direction.

It's because it is service based. You have a utilization goal for a reason. It sounds like your needs to be around 80%-90%, which is typical. They need a log of your time to make an assesment of how much they are really making. It's not like typical engineering where you make a product and success is determined by how much quantity you sell. Your product IS your time.

 

[FoBoT]

i don't mean the law, i mean what you and your boss agree to, be it formally or informally. informally can be spoken or not

what i mean is, i had a boss for a long time that knew when i put in extra hours and consequently was fine with me not using 'sick days' for things like staying home (working from home) for a cold or other other minor illness. it was mutually understood. same with any part day stuff like dentist or parent teacher conference, any family stuff where i left early or came in late.
basically i worked any hours needed when we were busy and i took off any hours needed when we were not busy. all informal and 'off the books'. only had to use vacation hours when we went out of town and i wasn't going to be able to respond by email/voice call within a a short time (15-30 minutes)

it worked because we both understood and respected the arrangement. this guy isn't on the same page with your way of thinking about it, so it isn't working

you are going to have to either just do it his way, or try to get it all out there and explicitly talk about how he wants it to work

good luck

 

[Demo24]

Sounds like I'm pretty lucky with my salary job at the moment. I don't get overtime but I do get 'flextime' so if I have to skip lunch or work late, I can then either come in late or leave early provided I've met the 40 hrs. I like it since it gives me some flexibility and as long as I get my work done, etc there won't really be any problems. More strict right now since I'm working through a temp agency so if I did have over 40 they'd have to pay me overtime which they can't do(state job, might be difficult to get that through).

Guy before me apparently took some liberties with it and used up all his leave so ultimately had his pay docked when he would skip days.

 

[mrCide]

I'm salary, and regularly end up working extra hours from home or late night for system upgrades (2-5am) which means not only having to stay up late, but working those late hours. I have had conversations with my boss about it and he's offered me a forced comp day and told me to ask if I ever need one. He KNOWS what hours I'm working though.

If your boss doesn't know the extra time you're putting in, then you have 2 options, stop doing it and if you're confronted say you can't do all this in the time given, and you would like compensation for the extra hours it would take, or start presenting those extra hours to your boss and ask for compensation pro-actively, be it more pay or time off whenever you request it.

In the mean time, start looking for another job. Not joking. Do it.