How would you answer this question...esp if you are anti-war?

[TheNinja]

A poor Iraqi woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being raped by Saddam's thugs. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the military at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of Saddam's people and help millions of people just like me. Why do you protest your government from doing that? Are your troops (who are willing to fight even without your support) wrong for trying to help hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a free country but I do not or are you just selfish?"

I don't have proof of this exact story, but don't think that this isn't a real scenario in Iraq. Please think about it before you spout off another response, And read the last quote in my sig borrowed from DevilsAdvocate....Makes you think about your motives huh?

 

[drewshin]

sure, it would be nice if everyone lived in a free country, but it's no reason to go to war and take over a country (wmd's - possibly, attack - yes)

there's over a billion people in china that do not live in a free country, millions of north koreans, cuba, just off our border. we have never invaded these countries, and those people have been oppressed for forty-fifty years. what's so different with iraq? there are those that say that diplomacy wasnt working with iraq, but do you think diplomacy has been working with china/north korea/or cuba?

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Staley8
A poor Iraqi woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being raped by Saddam's thugs. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the military at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of Saddam's people and help millions of people just like me. Why do you protest your government from doing that? Are your troops (who are willing to fight even without your support) wrong for trying to help hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a free country but I do not or are you just selfish?"

I don't have proof of this exact story, but don't think that this isn't a real scenario in Iraq. Please think about it before you spout off another response, And read the last quote in my sig borrowed from DevilsAdvocate....Makes you think about your motives huh?

If you do not know if this story is real why are you using it?

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: drewshin
sure, it would be nice if everyone lived in a free country, but it's no reason to go to war and take over a country (wmd's - possibly, attack - yes)

there's over a billion people in china that do not live in a free country, millions of north koreans, cuba, just off our border. we have never invaded these countries, and those people have been oppressed for forty-fifty years. what's so different with iraq? there are those that say that diplomacy wasnt working with iraq, but do you think diplomacy has been working with china/north korea/or cuba?

Nice post

 

[rbV5]

"A poor Los Angeles woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being ripped-off by thug gangmembers. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the gangs at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of the Gangsta Thugs and help millions of people just like me. Why do turn your back from doing that? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a civilized society and a safe neighborhood but I do not? or are you just selfish?"

Change the words a little and the whole world has the same story. What are you doing about it?

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: drewshin
sure, it would be nice if everyone lived in a free country, but it's no reason to go to war and take over a country (wmd's - possibly, attack - yes)

there's over a billion people in china that do not live in a free country, millions of north koreans, cuba, just off our border. we have never invaded these countries, and those people have been oppressed for forty-fifty years. what's so different with iraq? there are those that say that diplomacy wasnt working with iraq, but do you think diplomacy has been working with china/north korea/or cuba?

What about all the defiance that Sadaam has showed to the UN, FOR 12 YEARS.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: rbV5
"A poor Los Angeles woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being ripped-off by thug gangmembers. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the gangs at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of the Gangsta Thugs and help millions of people just like me. Why do turn your back from doing that? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a civilized society and a safe neighborhood but I do not? or are you just selfish?"

Change the words a little and the whole world has the same story. What are you doing about it?

Easier sad than done, our topic is Iraq not Issuses inside the states.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: drewshin
sure, it would be nice if everyone lived in a free country, but it's no reason to go to war and take over a country (wmd's - possibly, attack - yes)

there's over a billion people in china that do not live in a free country, millions of north koreans, cuba, just off our border. we have never invaded these countries, and those people have been oppressed for forty-fifty years. what's so different with iraq? there are those that say that diplomacy wasnt working with iraq, but do you think diplomacy has been working with china/north korea/or cuba?

What about all the defiance that Sadaam has showed to the UN, FOR 12 YEARS.

How about the bullying the US has tried with the UN FOR YEARS.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: rbV5
"A poor Los Angeles woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being ripped-off by thug gangmembers. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the gangs at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of the Gangsta Thugs and help millions of people just like me. Why do turn your back from doing that? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a civilized society and a safe neighborhood but I do not? or are you just selfish?"

Change the words a little and the whole world has the same story. What are you doing about it?

Easier sad than done, our topic is Iraq not Issuses inside the states.

I think we're capable of talking about both.

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: drewshin
sure, it would be nice if everyone lived in a free country, but it's no reason to go to war and take over a country (wmd's - possibly, attack - yes)

there's over a billion people in china that do not live in a free country, millions of north koreans, cuba, just off our border. we have never invaded these countries, and those people have been oppressed for forty-fifty years. what's so different with iraq? there are those that say that diplomacy wasnt working with iraq, but do you think diplomacy has been working with china/north korea/or cuba?

What about all the defiance that Sadaam has showed to the UN, FOR 12 YEARS.

How about the bullying the US has tried with the UN FOR YEARS.

Oh lord, come up with sometihng better than that Flavio...

You know 333 defiances are enough for me.

He had to go.

GET OVER IT MAN.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: drewshin
sure, it would be nice if everyone lived in a free country, but it's no reason to go to war and take over a country (wmd's - possibly, attack - yes)

there's over a billion people in china that do not live in a free country, millions of north koreans, cuba, just off our border. we have never invaded these countries, and those people have been oppressed for forty-fifty years. what's so different with iraq? there are those that say that diplomacy wasnt working with iraq, but do you think diplomacy has been working with china/north korea/or cuba?

What about all the defiance that Sadaam has showed to the UN, FOR 12 YEARS.

How about the bullying the US has tried with the UN FOR YEARS.

Oh lord, come up with sometihng better than that Flavio...

You know 333 defiances are enough for me.

He had to go.

GET OVER IT MAN.

So they should respect the UN but the US doesn't have to right?

 

[bjc112]

Since when did the U.S disrespect the U.N.

IF you are too blind to realize that the U.N. was not going to do what is said it was going to, then it makes it useless.

Just keep ignoring the facts, it works, it really does.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112
Since when did the U.S disrespect the U.N.

IF you are too blind to realize that the U.N. was not going to do what is said it was going to, then it makes it useless.

Just keep ignoring the facts, it works, it really does.

It seems to be working for you pretty well. Maybe I'll try it someday.

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112
Since when did the U.S disrespect the U.N.

IF you are too blind to realize that the U.N. was not going to do what is said it was going to, then it makes it useless.

Just keep ignoring the facts, it works, it really does.

It seems to be working for you pretty well. Maybe I'll try it someday.

Your great at the spin trick...

You cant even answer anything that is put your way...

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112
Since when did the U.S disrespect the U.N.

IF you are too blind to realize that the U.N. was not going to do what is said it was going to, then it makes it useless.

Just keep ignoring the facts, it works, it really does.

It seems to be working for you pretty well. Maybe I'll try it someday.

Your great at the spin trick...

You cant even answer anything that is put your way...

Answer what? You spew a bunch of crap and then label it a "fact". i don't even think you know what the word means.

 

[bjc112]

Questions...

Since when did the US disrepect the U.N. for starters...

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112
Questions...

Since when did the US disrepect the U.N. for starters...

The US tried to bully and bribe countries to support the invasion of Iraq. When Bush didn't get his way he invaded without UN support.

 

[bjc112]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112
Questions...

Since when did the US disrepect the U.N. for starters...

The US tried to bully and bribe countries to support the invasion of Iraq. When Bush didn't get his way he invaded without UN support.

bully and bribe...

HOW?

we waited long enough... AND 12 years before that...

What is your problem?

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: bjc112

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: bjc112
Questions...

Since when did the US disrepect the U.N. for starters...

The US tried to bully and bribe countries to support the invasion of Iraq. When Bush didn't get his way he invaded without UN support.

bully and bribe...

HOW?

we waited long enough... AND 12 years before that...

What is your problem?

So if they don't do what we want we can ignore them? But other countries can't?

 

[rbV5]

Easier sad than done, our topic is Iraq not Issuses inside the states.

No its not. The topic is meant to make someone who opposes the war feel guilty about not helping the perhaps fictitious "poor Iraqi woman", my point is that very same issue exists worldwide, even within our own borders.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: bjc112
Questions...

Since when did the US disrepect the U.N. for starters...

Well, how about when we chose to invade Iraq even though the U.N. wouldn't sanction it?

The U.S. routinely ignores U.N. decisions when it's inconvenient for us. We have also reduced our funding to the U.N., refused to make promised payments, and have even discussed withdrawing all funding because we didn't like some of their decisions. Our contempt for the U.N. in general has been growing for years, and Bush has shown he is actively hostile to the U.N. If this is news to you, you haven't been paying attention.

Having said that, there are many other countries that ignore U.N. decisions they dislike. It's also not really fair to compare the U.S. disregard for the U.N. with Iraq's. On the other hand, if the U.N. ever tried to impose similar sanctions and restrictions on us, I'm pretty sure we would tell them exactly where to pound sand, and we'd even get them started. Face it, this is a great country but we often don't play well with others.

 

[seawolf21]

Originally posted by: Staley8
A poor Iraqi woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being raped by Saddam's thugs. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the military at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of Saddam's people and help millions of people just like me. Why do you protest your government from doing that? Are your troops (who are willing to fight even without your support) wrong for trying to help hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a free country but I do not or are you just selfish?"

I don't have proof of this exact story, but don't think that this isn't a real scenario in Iraq. Please think about it before you spout off another response, And read the last quote in my sig borrowed from DevilsAdvocate....Makes you think about your motives huh?

So when are we freeing the public of those countries with poor human rights records listed in http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2002?

Freeing the Iraqi public was an added incentive which Bush used as a spin for the war. I'll gladly support a regime change if we were on a quest to rid the world of human rights violators but Iraqi Freedom wasn't it.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Staley8
A poor Iraqi woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being raped by Saddam's thugs. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the military at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of Saddam's people and help millions of people just like me. Why do you protest your government from doing that? Are your troops (who are willing to fight even without your support) wrong for trying to help hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a free country but I do not or are you just selfish?"

I think this is a great question. Even though I still oppose the war, this is the one argument that sways me the most.

I have two concerns with this reasoning. First, does the end justify the means? Second, where do we draw the line?

There are thousands of people in dozens of countries who are subjected to this level of brutality every day. There are hundreds of thousands in virtually every country - including the U.S. - who are mistreated in some way every day. Where do we draw the line? Do we attack everyone? What level of mistreatment is acceptable? How can we rationalize attacking tyrants we don't like while looking the other way - even supporting - equally brutal tyrants who have our good graces for the moment? At what point do we have to clean up our own act before we can impose our morality on others?

In my opinion, those decisions are supposed to rest in the United Nations. When we unilaterally attack another country without a clear and immediate danger to us or our allies, we become an outlaw nation, a bad world citizen. We are supposed to stand for something greater.

But it's a great question.

 

[iamWolverine]

Originally posted by: bjc112


we waited long enough...

No you don't sound selfish . . . what were you waiting for? You've felt really threatened by Saddam's regime for the last 12 years havent you? You've suffered under US enforced sanctions for more than a decade haven't you? You've had your country bombed almost on a daily basis for more than a decade haven't you? The only people that have suffered are the Iraqis, and yet Americans supporting this war think they are the ones that have been victimized . . . the only way that Americans become victims is by the brutal, inhumane and misguided foreign policy which the U.S. takes along with spending billions more on WAR in the name of "defense" rather than to actually better this country, let alone the rest of the world in a positive and peaceful way.

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: seawolf21

Originally posted by: Staley8
A poor Iraqi woman says, "My husband was killed b/c he tried to protect me from being raped by Saddam's thugs. My children were taken from me, one was put in prison and the other was forced into the military at age 10. Your US government can come over here and get rid of Saddam's people and help millions of people just like me. Why do you protest your government from doing that? Are your troops (who are willing to fight even without your support) wrong for trying to help hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people? Are you better than me that you deserve to live in a free country but I do not or are you just selfish?"

I don't have proof of this exact story, but don't think that this isn't a real scenario in Iraq. Please think about it before you spout off another response, And read the last quote in my sig borrowed from DevilsAdvocate....Makes you think about your motives huh?

So when are we freeing the public of those countries with poor human rights records listed in http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2002?

Freeing the Iraqi public was an added incentive which Bush used as a spin for the war. I'll gladly support a regime change if we were on a quest to rid the world of human rights violators but Iraqi Freedom wasn't it.

But does it really matter if that was the purpose of the war? The point to me as a compassionate human being is that an "added incentive" or side effect of this deal is that the Iraqis will hopefully all live better lives without fear of Saddam. Doesn't that make sense?