How would the discovery of Alien Intelligent affect you?

[rc5]

That's good.
They must be able to write a non-M$ version Windows which doesn't suck at all.

 

[OS]

In the scope of a casual internet discussion, I don't feel my explanation for the origin of life is oversimplistic at all. If you feel that it is necessary to discuss amino acids, the origin of organic compounds and the primordial earth's environment, then go take some classes at a cutting edge university, they will teach you everything science currently knows about that situation.

First you make wild assertions about the beginnings of life as fact then you are offended when you are called on it and drop back to "gene pools will change over time." You are confusing VARIETY - change within a basic type of living thing - with evolution.

I am not offended because you called on the point. I am merely annoyed at how sloppy you are at engaging in this dicussion. This is the most sloppiest discussion that I can remember. BTW, I never said that the origins of life were fact. You want to point out where I said that? Where did I say that "life began as self replicating molecules and this is a proven fact", or something like that? Well huh, you can't because I didn't say that. Do people who are losing arguments always resort to stuffing words in their opponents mouths?


This is the case because the original question I posed to you was

What would it take to prove to YOU that evolution is in fact true?

And you responded with completely unrelated quesions. This question has nothing to do with the origins of life. I have already said that I cannot do a detailed explanation of everything it took to start the origin of life, since my original one you claim was inadequate. If you sincerely want to learn the answer to this, instead of using this as a rhetorical point, go enroll in classes at a nearby university. They will teach this to you in a way that even you would not call "oversimplistic"

What arrogance on your part.

How is this any more arrogant than you saying that evolution is "BS"? How is this any more arrogant than you calling my views "ridiculous"? How is this anymore arrogant that you calling what I have written as "misinformation" without proof? Is that statement slightly arrogant? Perhaps. But it pales in comparison to what you have written.

Correct me if I am wrong, but evolution means that life progressed from simple one celled organisms over time to its highest state - the human, so far - by a series of biological changes.

I've already written the answer to this several times in this thread. I will not repeat myself because if you didn't read it already, you are either not really reading what I am posting, or halfway illiterate.

And neither can be PROVED

The fact that you said this flat out shows that you have your mind already made up. In fact, either evolution or creationism could be proven, but only one of them could be. It's just for creationism to be true, all of astronomy, cosmology, biology, geology and palentology would all have to be proven wrong. Evolution requires nothing of the sort and to the biological community this is a moot point.

I will no longer reply to this discussion as I have more immediately pressing things to do in my life, but I will say this.

Mark my words apoppin. Your great great grandchildren will look back and laugh and ridicule the fact that these kinds of dicussions where ever held. Every time that science and religion has conflicted, science has always won out. It happened when the earth was once believed to be flat. It happened when the earth was once believed to be at the center of the solar system. It is happening with the age of the earth. And it will happen with evolution.

 

[sandorski]

Umm, what does Creationism/evolutionism have to do with aliens coming to Earth?Nothing, start another thread.

 

[UG]

Western Theologic Philosophy has just one revelation--'God' exists.

Science has encyclopedic revelations, yet not one of them is that 'God' exists.

Forgive me if I subscribe to Science's many revealed aspects of Nature, and discount western Theologic Philosophy's single creative concept as monotone noise.

 

[UG]

Evolution.

 

[warlord]

<< So we have a theory full of holes on one hand and supersition on the other. Great choice. >>


I just speewed beer all over my keyboard you bastard!

really in response to this post: your Great choice requires a GIANT leap of faith.



<< how a single celled lifeform which still exists decided it need 2 sexes to replicate in its desire to evolve. >>


I can explain it in one word: MUTATION. you can observe mutations by having a child with your sister, and watching the resuling life arive rather mutated.



<< How come our DNA is so radically different from other creatures if we all crawled out of the same &quot;primordial goo&quot;? >>


our DNA isn't that different from chimpanzees, it's only 1 chromozone off.



<< The steps of man have been proven falsified, including &quot;Lucy&quot; which was no more than a monkey to begin with, and one of the &quot;early man&quot; skeletons was formed by a fragment of skull and another by a single pig's tooth. >>


give me a reference, a reputable reference, not a biased source like the truth.com.



<< Evolution is a fact and a law. >>


Evolution is a fact. Where/what humans came from has not been proven. My point is to say that it is not a proven fact that humans evolved from a single celled organism. However, I do believe we did.



<< You are confusing VARIETY - change within a basic type of living thing - with evolution. >>


this is called evolution.

Whether you believe in evolution or creation, there are some things that you must &quot;take as they are&quot; because they are not explained. My personal opinion is that the majority of people believe in creation because you are taught that is the only possiblity from birth. Once you reach the point of being able to think on your own, the possibility of another explaination is inconcievale. This could be considered brain washing, but that may be going a little far.


outersquare, I didn't mean to leave you hanging high and dry holding the bag with this one, but sometimes fishing takes priority. I'm glad to see some other people steped into the discusion.

[rant]
Hyper99,

don't take this as a personal attack, but why the F are all of your posts like that? the majority of the time I skip your posts (in any forum) because your sentences don't end in any predictable place. it looks like you typed it in word to spell check it and the copied/pasted it over. It just really pisses me off because it is a massive pain in the ass to read, kinda like Haiku
[/rant]

 

[Hyper99]

it time we forgot how we got here by evolution or by god
the truth is our parent mated and have us
what else do we need to know?
the my parent is here because their parent mated too
sounds dumb doesn't it?
but I guess trying to figure out anymore then that require
you to use a time machine
which isn't possible
how do you know what happen 1000 years ago
it mostly forgotten already
who know
why worry about alien exist or not
we couldn't even figure where we came from!
I feel kind of funny how life come and goes
we are born then grow old and die
so what does that tell you?
Life can be so short sometime
especially when someone don't live to their fullest
ie car wrecks
got shot, bad health etc.
each person is unique and have their own personality
you wont find anyone like me, you, him/she etc.
well similar but not exactly like 100%
not only that we look different as well
now for animal they pretty much have same personality
and look the same.

 

[apoppin]

Outersquare, did you forget your own words? - you are accusing me of putting words in your mouth - check out your Jul/20/200 6:25 PM post: &quot;Complex life didn't just happen. Life began simply as a set of molecules that had the ability to self-replicate . . .&quot; And then you contradict yourself - &quot;I never said the origins of life were fact.&quot; Talk about sloppy - reread your own posts again.

You are obviously offended because you cannot defend your position. Evolution is not a science. It is perhaps one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated on mankind. You tell me to go to a university and enroll to understand what science currently knows about the origins of life. I am keeping up with the latest speculations and theories. That's why I originally said there is MUCH disagreement among evolutionists. No one can demonstrate or replicate what supposedly happened billions of years ago. Obviously you can't.

You are arrogant in your views on evolution. You attack the character of anyone questioning your sacred views (&quot;a stubbon, ill-tempered child with a big vocabulary&quot. That is a mark of DOGMA, not scientific reasoning.

We do agree on one point, whenever false religion has conflicted with true science, science has won. But evolution is not a true science. It is a flawed theory on very shaky ground.

And now you are predicting the future. Who knows, evolution may well be proved false in our own lifetime.

EDIT: warlord, I'll be back in an hour or so to take your discussion point by point.

 

[Hyper99]

warlord dude you're so full of yourself
your ranting is ridiculous
make no sense whatsoever
so please don't start this crap
selfish man you are have very little respect for what other have to say















you are one pathetic preacher.
majority are not going agree with you
you too are talking to yourself
next time you saying something
don't hyper me
don't criticize me
your english sucks
and your spelling are way off
nuff said.
I haven't read a thing you said either
sleep in your own world and dream well
you said you ignore me and then you bash me around
kinda shot yourself for that.



I see that a few are against you well I may as jump in and be on their side.

 

[Hyper99]

warlord oh great one
I bow down to you are the master of the universe!
You're the smartest man I've met no really
You may as well talk to yourself then.
You ain't worth even a sec of my time period

 

[Hyper99]

You guy don't know what you are talking about do you?
let change subject and move on to something else!
this is getting dummer with every post
so far you either completely ignore what I said
or are pissed for apparently no reason!
what do you think I'm stupid?
My IQ is 140 I tell you I happen to be quite bright
compared most people.

 

[warlord]

hyper99:

#1

<< don't hyper me >>

What does this mean? The word hyper does not apply in this sentence.
Webster's Dictoinary:
1 hyper (hy'per)adj. [Slang] high strung; keyed up
2 hyper- [prefix] over, above, excessive

#2

<< your english sucks
and your spelling are way off >>

well, I think enough has been said about this.

#3

<< you said you ignore me and then you bash me around
kinda shot yourself for that. >>

Could you explain this one to me too, it doesn't make sense either.

#4

<< My IQ is 140 I tell you I happen to be quite bright
compared most people. >>

It is quite obvious that your IQ is very high from your posts, there is absolutly no reason to state it here.


my intention was not to insult you, but you have lowered yourself to personal attacks, which if you have studied any philosophy, commonly means the attacker's arguments have fallen apart. In this case I wouldn't say your argument has fallen apart since apoppin is quite adapt at continuing it, you obviously have no arguments to begin with. Also, to accuse me of being full of myself is a rather bold statement from someone who knows and posts his own IQ without provocation.

apoppin I look forward to your response.

 

[UG]

I can't decide between most of this, or real Alien Speak.

Were the Universe incapable of supporting life, we would not be here.

The Universe is very large, we are very small/ The Universe can host more organisms than merely ourselves.

'Alien' is relative, as some of you amply demonstrate.

 

[apoppin]

warlord, sorry about the beer on the keyboard.

Your theory also requires a GIANT leap of faith. Millions of tiny mutations and changes - each with a zillion to one chance against it happening - repeating over and over again to change one species into another.

Mutation, another magic word evolutionists insist on using. And not just any mutations - but favorable ones that enhance survival transforming one lifeform into another to originate new species. Yet MOST mutations are harmful rather than helpful. It has been estimated that for every sucessful mutation there are thousands which are harmful. Having a child with your sister would tend to produce offspring less fit to survive, nothing new and better.

While on the topic of mutations, please show an example of a mutation that produces something more than a variation of a trait that is already there. Please show something NEW that is produced by mutation. The fruit fly and peppered moth experimentation has not produced any new species by mutation.

No, observed varietal changes within a species IS NOT evolution. Evolution demands changing frome one species into another.

<<Evolution is a fact. . . . My point is to say that it is not a proven fact that humans evolved from a single celled organism. However, I do believe we did.>>[/i] Great, you are admitting to my 'belief/faith' theory.

I was not taught creationism from birth. Nor evolution. I have reached the point where I can think on my own - and no evolutionist has ever been able to logically explain the process to me or to any other logically-thinking person, for that matter. You are on the evolution bandwagon because it is the popular place to be. Your professors have brainwashed you because it is unthinkable for you to believe in a creator.

 

[apoppin]

Red Dawn, no inner turmoil for me IF evolution were scientifically proven true. I look forward to the truth, no matter what beliefs I now hold. I'd like to be shown that there is no creator and (if not) that we have no responsibility for actions (to him) - It'd be a relief.

But look at the inner turmoil you might face if you are wrong,

As to Adam and Eve. It it just pointing to the belief that all humans descended from a first couple. That we are all related by common ancestors. Even evolution points to this. There wasn't parallel evolution going on to separately produce two or more couples from which the human race(s) descended.

 

[warlord]

<< Your professors have brainwashed you because it is unthinkable for you to believe in a creator. >>

I was raised roman catholic, and I can remember asking myself at an early age what made the bible true. I have no idea why I asked myself this. In the fourth grade I began being an alter boy, and even then when I understood why certain cermonies took place, and all kinds of other stuff, I still questioned who/what God was. I went along because it was expected of me, and thats what everyone else was doing. I am became an evolutionist in high school when I stopped believing that there was a Higher Being, but I continued to be an alter boy until 18 (I'm sure you have parents too). It has even come between some of my family members and myself, and my family is very important to me.

I have actually tried to have this conversation with a few college prof's and non of them will engage in it because they fear the possible results, so no influence has come from them. I was only taught the theory of evolution breifly in a high school bio class, breifly for the same reason.

As for my GIANT leap of faith, I do know the theory of evolution requires it too. However, varietal changes in a species is evolutoin, just on a tiny scale. It takes {insert adj here) years for those changes to become what we all would consider an evolutional change, but that is what the very beginings of evolution are; tiny changes.



<< <<Evolution is a fact. . . . My point is to say that it is not a proven fact that humans evolved from a single celled organism. However, I do believe we did.>> Great, you are admitting to my 'belief/faith' theory. >>

I'm not sure about your belief/faith theory. But I absolutlybelieve there is no proof to show that creationism or evolutionism is the creator of mankind, it is just my opinion that evolutionism is true.

 

[apoppin]

Well, warlord we are far more in agreement that it originally appeared. We both realize the difficulties with any belief system.

Yet you have chosen to believe in evolution and I in creation.

As I understand evolution - its cornerstone of belief is tiny changes happening over and over again over time to produce a NEW species (not just variety within a species).

My whole point - my belief system - is that it takes at least equal &quot;faith&quot; to believe in either evolution or creation - that there is (as yet) no proof either way. And that we should respect the beliefs of others - without ridicule.

I do not like to be preached to by religious people and told I will go to hell for not believing as they do. I also do not like to be told evolution is an established scientific fact and that I am stupid for not agreeing with it.

 

[warlord]

it does appear that we are very much of the same opinions, just from different sides of the argument.



<< ...- my belief system - is that it takes at least equal &quot;faith&quot; to believe in either evolution or creation - that there is (as yet) no proof either way. And that we should respect the beliefs of others - without ridicule. >>

Absolutly, it provides for much more enlightening and peaceful discussions.

 

[OS]

I suppose a short post is in order since I don't like leaving unfinished business.

warlord, np I'd also much prefer to go fishing rather than arguing

apoppin, I don't deny that I said what you copied. But I didn't say that it was a proven fact, now did I? That is merely the leading hypothesis for biochemists right now. This is fairly common knowledge so I didn't bother to write the hypothesis part. I stand by my sloppy comments.

You attack the character of anyone questioning your sacred views

imitation is the highest form of flattery. Consider yourself flattered

 

[apoppin]

Actually, OuterSquare (welcome back), you did say it was proven. Leaving out that little fact about evolution being the leading hypothesis of biochemists lead to a rather lively discussion - which I did enjoy.

Ok, the Off-Topic in Off Topic appears to be on hold for now.

So, it's ok to go back to &quot;How would the discovery of Alien Intelligent (sic.) affect you?&quot;. Sorry Doomer

 

[Doomer]

I presume that SETI wouldn't accept a sigular event like the WOW signal as an indication of their holy grail. I read an article a while back that dicussed a property called scintalation ( or something like that) which is similar to radio signals bouncing off the upper atmosphere and being detected much farther than it would be otherwise. It alien radio signals are like this then the proof is here, we just won't accept it as such.

 

[Thorn]

Ok, I'll tell you what it would take to prove to me that human evolution is true. Show me the missing link. A verified missing link. Why aren't there any primates that are between humans and apes? Why can't we find bones, artifacts, or any proof that such critters ever even existed? I'll admit that there is some proof of evolutionary advancement of some species, but there is none for humans. Prove that to me.

Hey here's some consolation for you. I can't prove Creationism to you. I can't even give you concrete evidence that there is a God. Just like you can't prove we came from apes, pigs, chickens, or any other critter. That's why it's called faith, it requires you look a bit farther than your own nose. At any rate, give it a rest. You're not gonna change the mind of a person with faith and we're not gonna change the mind of some guy that thinks he's 1st cousin to Bubbles the chimp.

A theory is not a law. Evolution is a theory meaning that it hasn't been proven. Newton (and a host of other scientists) have proven that there is gravity. Thus it is called the Law of Gravity. Very few things in life or science have been proven as fact, thus scientists have to work on a type of faith. It's the same with religion. Science is your god, that's your choice and what you put your faith in. We already have one and he's been worshipped a lot longer than a couple hundred years (like yours).

 

[apoppin]

NOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Thorin, I though we settled this. The evolutionists and creationists here agreed to a truce (last night) and mutually admitted that neither side can conclusive PROVE anything at the moment but would be nice to each other and respect the opposing viewpoints without ridicule.

At least, that's what I thought . . .

 

[warlord]

Thats what I thought too, it had just about fallen off the first page. Besides, I wasn't trying to change anyone's view point, we were all having a discussion.

 

[apoppin]

Not to change the subject (again), BUT how would discovery of intellegent aliens affect you?

EDIT: How did this get changed over to evolution anyway? The only thing I can see is that IF you are an evolutionist you can easily believe life developed in other places in the universe. IF you are a (Bible-based) creationist, you already do believe in intellegent non-human aliens (invisible demons and angels).