How will we pay for Obama's grand new programs?

[XZeroII]

http://www.engadget.com/2009/0...arriers-for-more-cash/

Increase the fees that cell providers are charged and what are they going to do? Raise your rates! It's the same as a tax on you and I.

Change we can all believe in.

 

[smack Down]

Sorry, but you fail at economics. If the wireless services could charge you more they would be more then happy to have started doing so already.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Sorry, but you fail at economics. If the wireless services could charge you more they would be more then happy to have started doing so already.

That is partly right but not entirely; if there is a minimum acceptable operating margin that most of the companies are basically on, if one increases its rates and the others don't, they'll lose business, but if their costs go up they will have to either increase costs or go out of business at the same time as the others. Chances are greater that they would simply increase costs knowing that others will too, because if their competitors stay low their competitors are just preventing the inevitable. I'm sure there are countless examples of government increasing taxes/costs and that being passed off to consumers. In fact, I think I pay a lot of those on my current utility bills.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Sorry, but you fail at economics. If the wireless services could charge you more they would be more then happy to have started doing so already.

No, you fail at economics.

The reason they don't charge more now is because of competition.

 

[frostedflakes]

"Spectrum license user fees" is extremely ambiguous, it's still unclear about who this applies to. Could be cellular providers, could be TV broadcasters, or could be both I guess. Either way it's going to suck, though, costs will probably be passed onto consumers.

But Obama's got the right idea. Most people (even his supporters) would probably piss and moan about even a minor lower or middle class income tax increase. Easier to slip it past them when you nickel and dime people like this, though.

 

[jpeyton]

Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

Hahah, yeah - and what magic wand is going to make these plans cost only "a few bucks" per person?

 

[fskimospy]

I'm really tired of this whole 'extra taxes are just passed on to the consumer' crap. In nearly every situation, some of the cost of additional taxes is passed on, and some is borne by the company. Corporations aren't these chimeras that simply cannot be taxed because they just get their money back from the customer.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Hahah, yeah - and what magic wand is going to make these plans cost only "a few bucks" per person?

I see this being a HUGE problem for the GOP in 2012. When they can't point to concrete numbers and say "look, we told you Obama would raise your taxes", they're fucked.

 

[nullzero]

Obama is looking everywhere to add in new taxes... Another way to screw the working lower and middle class people. Raise taxes on the cellphone so he is paying $5 more a month to the government. Where does Obama stop? Next up a $1 tax increase on a 6 pack of beer. Obama fails at economics, increased taxes in a down economy like this always will equal less tax revenue in the end. If you squeeze people enough they are going to have to give in somewhere and their cell phone plans is a place to look to cut which will equal no tax revenue increase for government.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

A few bucks here, a few there. It all adds up. I pay 10's of thousands of dollars already in taxes every year. Now I have to pay more 'hidden' taxes.

I guess the Obama strategy is going to revolve around deception. He'll increase taxes on you but claim he's not.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

What is stopping you from doing it now?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

A few bucks here, a few there. It all adds up. I pay 10's of thousands of dollars already in taxes every year. Now I have to pay more 'hidden' taxes.

I guess the Obama strategy is going to revolve around deception. He'll increase taxes on you but claim he's not.

Hey you don't have to pay it. Broadband is a luxury, if I couldn't afford it I wouldn't have it.

 

[IronWing]

Tax bluetooth headsets twice; god, I hate people wondering around in public talking to themselves like a bunch of trippin' hippies.

Taxing spectrum use seems like to good idea, particularly taxing TV spectrum where they got the spectrum for free in the first place. We got a credit card bill to pay off.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

A few bucks here, a few there. It all adds up. I pay 10's of thousands of dollars already in taxes every year. Now I have to pay more 'hidden' taxes.

I guess the Obama strategy is going to revolve around deception. He'll increase taxes on you but claim he's not.

Hey you don't have to pay it. Broadband is a luxury, if I couldn't afford it I wouldn't have it.

Cell phones are becoming more and more necessary. Unless you are a hermit, you need to utilize some of these services.

 

[MovingTarget]

Well, even in the worst light, it appears Obama is just taking a page from AT&T/Verizon/etc's playbook. Chumps. :laugh:

Seriously though, not all "tax" is bad. Better to take it from AT&T than from the average working schmuck. We all know that this "passing it to the consumer" argument isn't 100% true as no market is truly elastic. When it comes to cell service, we have been held over a barrel for years when you compare what we pay compared to what it costs to render the service. Heck, this is why you can see homeless people in third world countries with cellphones. These carriers can absorb 100% of this increase if they wanted to without putting too much of a dent in their current business (consumer-gouging) models. Fiscal responsibility isn't just about cutting services. It is about raising enough revenue to pay for the services the gvt already provides, which *gasp* sometimes will require a tax or fee increase.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

A few bucks here, a few there. It all adds up. I pay 10's of thousands of dollars already in taxes every year. Now I have to pay more 'hidden' taxes.

I guess the Obama strategy is going to revolve around deception. He'll increase taxes on you but claim he's not.

Hey you don't have to pay it. Broadband is a luxury, if I couldn't afford it I wouldn't have it.

Cell phones are becoming more and more necessary. Unless you are a hermit, you need to utilize some of these services.

I do, I have one of those cheap ass Trac Phones and buy airtime and minutes as discounts when they are offered. I only use it for work, emergencies or touching base with friends and family.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hey you don't have to pay it. Broadband is a luxury, if I couldn't afford it I wouldn't have it.

Apply that logic to government for a minute. Why is it that I have to set my budget around what the government wants, but the opposite is not true?

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hey you don't have to pay it. Broadband is a luxury, if I couldn't afford it I wouldn't have it.

Apply that logic to government for a minute. Why is it that I have to set my budget around what the government wants, but the opposite is not true?

Governments sets their budgets around what people vote for. On average, we get the government we deserve. Vote for a bunch of spendthrifts and one eventually sees higher taxes.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Governments sets their budgets around what people vote for. On average, we get the government we deserve. Vote for a bunch of spendthrifts and one eventually sees higher taxes.

The government doesn't have to set a budget, especially not the way I have to set a budget. What the government is doing right now is equivalent to me building a $500k house and a Bentley, then sending my neighbors the bill. It's what I want, not what they want, but they are stuck with it. My excuse? It will create jobs - someone has to design and build the house and the car, right? What a joke.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: ironwing
Governments sets their budgets around what people vote for. On average, we get the government we deserve. Vote for a bunch of spendthrifts and one eventually sees higher taxes.

The government doesn't have to set a budget, especially not the way I have to set a budget. What the government is doing right now is equivalent to me building a $500k house and a Bentley, then sending my neighbors the bill. It's what I want, not what they want, but they are stuck with it. My excuse? It will create jobs - someone has to design and build the house and the car, right? What a joke.

Yet the Congress and President are elected. Apparently, a sufficient number of people do want the Bentley and the 500k house and don't mind billing future workers.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

A few bucks here, a few there. It all adds up. I pay 10's of thousands of dollars already in taxes every year. Now I have to pay more 'hidden' taxes.

I guess the Obama strategy is going to revolve around deception. He'll increase taxes on you but claim he's not.

That's the great thing about Obama's plan, he will drastically increase the tax on gas, energy, food etc and the "middle class won't see a tax increase", just ask him.

95% of the people won't see a tax increase **



** as long as they don't purchase anything

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

We get it. You LOVE Obama's new tax plan.

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

A few bucks here, a few there. It all adds up. I pay 10's of thousands of dollars already in taxes every year. Now I have to pay more 'hidden' taxes.

I guess the Obama strategy is going to revolve around deception. He'll increase taxes on you but claim he's not.

That's the great thing about Obama's plan, he will drastically increase the tax on gas, energy, food etc and the "middle class won't see a tax increase", just ask him.

95% of the people won't see a tax increase **



** as long as they don't purchase anything

That about sums it up.

 

[Andrew1990]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Damn, tough choice.

Would I rather

A) Save a few bucks on my wireless bill

B) Pay for Obama's new infrastructure, schools, UHC, etc.

TOUGH choice. :roll:

A few bucks here, a few there. It all adds up. I pay 10's of thousands of dollars already in taxes every year. Now I have to pay more 'hidden' taxes.

I guess the Obama strategy is going to revolve around deception. He'll increase taxes on you but claim he's not.

That's the great thing about Obama's plan, he will drastically increase the tax on gas, energy, food etc and the "middle class won't see a tax increase", just ask him.

95% of the people won't see a tax increase **



** as long as they don't purchase anything

That is sig worthy, lol.