How well is Win Phone 7 actually doing?

[mammador]

Before work this morning, I glanced Bloomberg TV and they had somebody from MS on, talking about rivalling iOS and Android.

But is Nokia enough for them? Nokia was a big player way before smartphones become the norm (at least before the iPhone and Android devices came around). Now that Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc. have established themselves as major players, who cares about Nokia? Nokia only succeeds in dumb phones, and nobody really gives a poo about them again. It's not the late 1990s/2G era lol..

MS should get RIM onboard, it would be win-win for each party. At least RIM has some kind of brand behind it, it is the socialite's phone (BBM of course causes people to think this).

 

[Oyeve]

You have to remember, a HUGE HUGE portion of the world is still on a dumb/feature phone. Nokia is well known and respected, if they were to come with a killer W7/8 phone they would definately be in the running. AFAIC there is only apple, samsung, motorola and nokia who make high quality phones. all others, like htc and tawainese names I cant say or spell, are crap as far as quality.

A Nokia made blackberry running WM8 sounds awesome.

 

[gsaldivar]

HTC's phones have been pretty damn reliable for me.

 

[hans007]

out of basically every person i know on earth i know 3 people with windows 7 phone.

one of them was a friend of mine who coded maybe 3-4 games for iphone (he actaully uses an android phone personally , but he knows android market doesnt make money).

anyway microsoft SENT him a windows 7 phone for free to try to convince him to develop for it.

the other person i know actually works for microsoft and uses the phone they issued him.

the 3rd person is my coworker who actaully bought a focus S on his own. it actually is pretty slick and fast but its "different".

I think the thing is windows 7 phone goes for a certain crowd. definitely the "i'm leaving a non smartphone" people. Its got everything built in and eveyrthing is restricted to those tiles, but everything that fits in those tiles works quite well.

So thats what they are going for. I can't see it as being something that would lure someone away from android or iOS too much, it doesnt seem geared to the same people really.

 

[ImDonly1]

Before work this morning, I glanced Bloomberg TV and they had somebody from MS on, talking about rivalling iOS and Android.

But is Nokia enough for them? Nokia was a big player way before smartphones become the norm (at least before the iPhone and Android devices came around). Now that Apple, Samsung, HTC, etc. have established themselves as major players, who cares about Nokia? Nokia only succeeds in dumb phones, and nobody really gives a poo about them again. It's not the late 1990s/2G era lol..

MS should get RIM onboard, it would be win-win for each party. At least RIM has some kind of brand behind it, it is the socialite's phone (BBM of course causes people to think this).

In other parts of the world nokia is still a big phone maker. Its just the US that they are not available in.

Some links:
http://www.bgr.com/2011/11/24/nokia-lumia-800-sold-out-in-u-k-despite-rumors-of-weak-demand/
http://wmpoweruser.com/nokia-lumia-800-the-best-seller-during-launch-week-at-phonehouse-france/

“Lumia 800 sales in the U.K. are off to an excellent start,” Nokia said in a statement. “Based on earliest data the sales start of the Lumia 800 is the best ever first week of Nokia smartphone sales in the U.K. in recent history.

 

[finbarqs]

My mom uses WP7 (sounds like a self-degrading joke...) and I have to say, it was my fault. She was in the market for her FIRST smartphone, and right before she picked up an Android phone from Walmart, I told her to go to the T-Mobile store to actually try it out for herself before she purchased the phone.

I recommended her the HD7, and she ended up with the HD7... and she has had it for approximately just under a year. Each time I visit her, I would have to show her how to do something, in which she'll forget. She still doesn't know how to check voicemail lol. She's not very proficient, but I'm willing to be she would've fared better with an Android phone or iOS.

 

[Red Storm]

In the US WP7 is still behind Windows Mobile:

That is pathetic. The OS itself is fine (and would be my choice after Android), but Microsoft just can't seem to get anyone to buy into it. I think for one, they need to stop associating the name "Windows" with it.

 

[shortylickens]

In the US WP7 is still behind Windows Mobile:

That is pathetic. The OS itself is fine (and would be my choice after Android), but Microsoft just can't seem to get anyone to buy into it. I think for one, they need to stop associating the name "Windows" with it.

The people that loved winmo had no real incentive to move on to something new and cute. Same for the Palm crowd.

 

[smartpatrol]

WP7 is a damn good operating system, better than Android and iOS in some ways. I'd love to see it become the "third ecosystem".

Nokia is still a very powerful brand in Europe. With enough advertising, I think they could become a big name in the USA once again as well. Their products are very well made and attractive.

I seriously doubt WP7 will overtake Android or iOS anytime soon, but I could easily see them breaking into double-digit marketshare by this time next year.

 

[Red Storm]

The people that loved winmo had no real incentive to move on to something new and cute. Same for the Palm crowd.

2007: 42%

2008: 27%

2009: 15%

2010: 7%

2011: 3%

Either half the Windows Mobile userbase is dying every year, or they are indeed finding incentives to move on to.

It still amazes me how Android went in two years from 9% to 53% of the US market. That is just ridiculous. WP7 launched one year too late IMHO.

 

[ChronoReverse]

I still feel MS made a mistake here in not building WP7 as the ultimate business phone instead of the much tougher consumer area.

Active Directory, Onenote, Office, Exchange, Sharepoint. These could've been gamebreakers for WP7 in this arena had they been available from the start as fully fledged portions of WP7.

Get the idea that the WP7 Metro look is a "business look" and then you can sell Win8 and its use of the same interface better.

Instead of trying to pry growing number of Android and iOS users off their devices, you can then eat up the Blackberry folks that are starting to leave that platform.

 

[shortylickens]

2007: 42%

2008: 27%

2009: 15%

2010: 7%

2011: 3%

Either half the Windows Mobile userbase is dying every year, or they are indeed finding incentives to move on to.

It still amazes me how Android went in two years from 9% to 53% of the US market. That is just ridiculous. WP7 launched one year too late IMHO.

Umm, thats percentage, not absolute numbers. More people move to smartphones every year. More people buy their first phone every year.

Also, I didnt mean move on to something completely different, like Android or iPhone. I meant that if a hardcore winmo user found their ecosystem drying up they probably would not go WP7. More likely they'd jump on the popular bandwagons which are already a little better established. Same with the Palm crowd. Why go to a new WebOS system (even if it is nice) when the well known Android and iPhone are already out there?

Despite all that, Nokia will indeed help WP7 sales a great deal. I dunno if it will be enough to save them, but their number will improve, guaranteed.

 

[Red Storm]

I sure hope so. The more (legit) competitors we have in the market, the better for us (the consumers).

 

[finbarqs]

And notice there aren't very many commercials going on right now... promoting WP7. They did do that demo to "try out WP7 on your phone" via that website on iOS and Android devices... which just confirms everyone's hatred with this "new OS".

I think MS is about to kill it. They're not what they projected, and my guess is that they are WAY off. Perhaps over 20% off of their projections... probably more. Which means: their 5-year-catch-up-plan will need to take A LOT longer, and may just bankrupt MS. Windows 8 is also banking on this interface, which may lead to "let's scrap this whole -metro ui- idea and build from our roots to stay profitable."

I'd say, by this time next year, we will have WP7 fire sale going on. It's a pitty too, such an innovative and ambition project, that would've rivaled the top dogs.

The fact of the matter is: It's too difficult for first time smartphone users to use, and everyone else is already on Android or iOS. It's picking up the scrap of people who do NOT like iOS, but wants the "smoothness" and the fast touch response of it. It's also picking up people who are tired of Android's fragmentation and "force closes".

So even though I'm all for WP7 to take off, it's not going to. Many people who have seen it doesn't seem to be very impressed by it.... Maybe approximately 5-10% would stop and say "wow that's nice" - while the rest will just "why boxes on my home screen? I want weather, the time, I want to customize!"

I'm guessing MS is already planning their exit-strategy...

 

[Strk]

It doesn't help that MS is releasing fairly dated phones, to a certain extent anyways. While WP7 doesn't need the most powerful hardware it can get, there are other benefits to newer SoCs (better GPUs, increased power efficiency etc). The S2 Snapdragon was already in phones when the first WP7 phones came out, yet MS goes with the older version. And again, with Mango phones just being released, still dated hardware. The GPU alone should be a big reason. These phones basically have the phone part as a feature, so why limit them as a media device? Let's also not forget we're GSM only with the Mango phones. Sure, most of the world uses GSM, but CDMA is still quite large, especially since it includes half of the USA.

I don't get why MS is just so lazy when it comes to this stuff. Does MS really think complacency is how you win people over? Hell, look at how much flack Apple got over the 4s. Despite being heavily upgraded with its internals, because it more or less looks identical on the outside to the 4, aside from a few antenna tweaks, people still complain about it.

 

[Oyeve]

MS needs to 1. Not call it Windows Phone 2. Advertise on tv and not too technical. 3. Make their phone.

I would be all over it if I could play (maybe it does, I dont know) all of my xbox live games on it, I put a wp7 skin/launcher on my vibrant a while ago and I kinda liked the clean interface. The xbox 360 update made it look more like their phone so maybe they are trying to hook people in that way, idk.

 

[Deeko]

I think MS is about to kill it. They're not what they projected, and my guess is that they are WAY off. Perhaps over 20% off of their projections... probably more. Which means: their 5-year-catch-up-plan will need to take A LOT longer, and may just bankrupt MS. Windows 8 is also banking on this interface, which may lead to "let's scrap this whole -metro ui- idea and build from our roots to stay profitable."

I think you underestimate how much they make in their other departments. Last quarter (remember..just the quarter, not the year), the Entertainment & Devices division (which is XBox, Zune, and Windows Phone) alone profited almost half a billion dollars, which pales in comparison to the 3.6 billion for Business, 3.2 billion for Windows, and 1.6 billion for Sever. Windows Phone isn't even making its own division unprofitable, let alone bringing down the company.

 

[MrX8503]

Its pretty pathetic that MS went from 37% to becoming obliterated down to nothing in 5 years. Someone dropped the ball when they decided to keep pushing the antiquated WinMo OS.

I think WP7 is impressive, its unfortunate that MS can't seem to get people to buy it. I like most things about the OS except the homescreen and app/settings list.

 

[ITHURTSWHENIP]

In terms of marketshare they are doing pretty bad. But supposedly they are making between 5-15 dollars on every Android handset sold from a number of manufacturers so revenue wise they are probably ok

It would be good to see MS becoming the third OS since competition is always good for customers. But some of their business practises make me avoid them.

Angry Birds costs like 99 cents at iOS appstore and its free for Android. Microsoft is asking for almost 3x as much as it costs on App store. Same with Fruit Ninja and other games. Its kind of of arrogant to charge that when you have a less than 2% marketshare and you want to attract customers

 

[cronos]

I still feel MS made a mistake here in not building WP7 as the ultimate business phone instead of the much tougher consumer area.

Active Directory, Onenote, Office, Exchange, Sharepoint. These could've been gamebreakers for WP7 in this arena had they been available from the start as fully fledged portions of WP7.

Get the idea that the WP7 Metro look is a "business look" and then you can sell Win8 and its use of the same interface better.

Instead of trying to pry growing number of Android and iOS users off their devices, you can then eat up the Blackberry folks that are starting to leave that platform.

This 100%. I've said pretty much the exact same thing here a few months ago.

 

[GTaudiophile]

It was not enough and too late. I just got the impression (and still do) from reviews that it is a polished but unfinished product. Quit telling us about "what's coming" when the competition already has it. Come out with it already.

Put the OS on the nicest hardware possible at three different price points. Arm those phones with "world phone" functionality such that anyone can buy it and use it anywhere and then sell it for cheap/at a loss to gain marketshare. FINALLY, put functional devices in every store for people to play with.

 

[finbarqs]

even if it's awesome, I think this huge plan is going to be an ultimate failure... A company needs to understand when to cut their losses, which I believe they're planning right now... Otherwise, why not advertise the hell out of it?

 

[Oyeve]

You know what would really improve MS getting wp out? Give them away. Seriously. Think about it. MS make 1,000,000 really decent windows phones, have the 3-4 major carriers distribute them for like 10 bucks plus a 1-2yr contract with the carrier. Pay all sub costs, hook a million people, make an even better phone 1 year later BUT charge the normal upgrade fee and sub fee. This would work ONLY if MS made a really kickass high tech phone AND actually support it. The average consumer is already confused with android and ios.

 

[ilkhan]

Windows 8 is also banking on this interface, which may lead to "let's scrap this whole -metro ui- idea and build from our roots to stay profitable."

The world won't be that lucky.

 

[pantsaregood]

It was not enough and too late. I just got the impression (and still do) from reviews that it is a polished but unfinished product. Quit telling us about "what's coming" when the competition already has it. Come out with it already.

Put the OS on the nicest hardware possible at three different price points. Arm those phones with "world phone" functionality such that anyone can buy it and use it anywhere and then sell it for cheap/at a loss to gain marketshare. FINALLY, put functional devices in every store for people to play with.

There's not really much missing from Mango as far as feature parity goes with Android and iOS. The OS is fine, they just need people to give it a chance.

ALSO

"windows mobile 7," "windows 7 phone," and "winmopho" do not exist