How to Transform Struggling Towns?

[Fenixgoon]

Opinion: This town powered America for decades. What do we owe them?

After the election, Steve Gray of Gillette, Wyoming left CNN a voicemail saying he feared his home will become a ghost town under President Joe Biden. John Sutter traveled to Gillette to meet Gray. He asks: In the fight against the climate crisis, and after President Biden has re-joined the...

www.cnn.com

The article gives an example of a coal town in wyoming where the collapse of the coal industry has devastated the area. there are countless towns like this across the country whether rural or urban - and of course we also need to address the historic disenfranchisement of black communities. how do we (government/society, whether local, state, or federal) help such areas where there's little economic diversity/opportunity? does it come in the form of tax breaks/subsidies or economic investment grants? skills training programs? infrastructure development to attract businesses (e.g. municipal fiber)?

 

[Vic]

Every town built around a single industry will eventually die. Whether it's a coal town, a mill town, a mining town, or Detroit. If Gillette wants to survive, it needs to attract new industry.

 

[soulcougher73]

I think actual affordable housing across the country would help. Maybe some kind of resettlement/moving package to help. Instead of propping up dying towns with no prospects for growth. Make it easier and more feasible for these people to move elsewhere.

 

[zzyzxroad]

This below article seems to be accurate. Even at its high point in the 1920s there were less than 1 million coal mining jobs. Natural gas has replaced it as a cheaper alternative to generate power. We have automated the collection of natural gas using fracking. I am not going to read that opinion article but at a quick glance it seems flawed. The coal industry hasn't been a significant provider of jobs for a long time.

As for folks put in rural parts of the US where jobs have dried up, I don't see how are why we should try and unnaturally create jobs in those areas. Maybe we should put training and relocation programs in place?

Contact Support

 

[darkswordsman17]

Straight up the only thing that would save those places is essentially Communism, the federal government to finance massive distributed housing and infrastructure, as well as jobs. It'd take something as big as the New Deal if not bigger to accomplish that. Which of course has been suggest and those people got so mad about it they've been turned into fanatics that want to overthrow the government (because that somehow is going to save them...dumbfucks).

Unfortunately those people are so fucked in the head they'd refuse any such (but they'll gladly accept money from the government while demonizing others for it...fucking assholes), just like they have hatred for others even though immigrants (both legal and illegal) are one of the few things keeping a lot of rural areas from just collapsing.

 

[darkswordsman17]

This below article seems to be accurate. Even at its high point in the 1920s there were less than 1 million coal mining jobs. Natural gas has replaced it as a cheaper alternative to generate power. We have automated the collection of natural gas using fracking. I am not going to read that opinion article but at a quick glance it seems flawed. The coal industry hasn't been a significant provider of jobs for a long time.

As for folks put in rural parts of the US where jobs have dried up, I don't see how are why we should try and unnaturally create jobs in those areas. Maybe we should put training and relocation programs in place?

Contact Support

Coal miners are the dumbest mother fuckers in the history of the world. They got locked into owing their existence to their employer (and tried to demonize people that didn't) while they got life long ailments and other shit from it with no options to really get the fuck out of it, then are surprised when their industry which is the dirtiest dumbest way of creating electricity flounders, leaving them stranded in bumfuck nowhere that's now a superfund site while them and their families got chronic ailments (from working in such an area). Then after a ridiculous amount of shenanigans they expect us to be sympathetic? They were offered green jobs and started frothing at the mouth in anger.

Unless the government decides to put them to use cleaning up those sites, they're fucked if they're not willing to move and learn new trade. In lots of those places there's really no viable alternative industry so they're going to have to move. Perhaps if the federal government decides to just start mining for elements for green equipment, or converts those mines into kinetic batteries.

Frankly the cheapest option seems to be just to send them a bit of money to forget about them, like we did to native tribes. Let them live in their misery.

 

[Brainonska511]

If I remember correctly, Wyoming shot itself in the foot with some new opportunities. For instance, their wind energy tax has disincentivized the construction of wind farms - something that could have been a source for continued growth in the state.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Coal miners are the dumbest mother fuckers in the history of the world. They got locked into owing their existence to their employer (and tried to demonize people that didn't) while they got life long ailments and other shit from it with no options to really get the fuck out of it, then are surprised when their industry which is the dirtiest dumbest way of creating electricity flounders, leaving them stranded in bumfuck nowhere that's now a superfund site while them and their families got chronic ailments (from working in such an area). Then after a ridiculous amount of shenanigans they expect us to be sympathetic? They were offered green jobs and started frothing at the mouth in anger.

Unless the government decides to put them to use cleaning up those sites, they're fucked if they're not willing to move and learn new trade. In lots of those places there's really no viable alternative industry so they're going to have to move. Perhaps if the federal government decides to just start mining for elements for green equipment, or converts those mines into kinetic batteries.

Frankly the cheapest option seems to be just to send them a bit of money to forget about them, like we did to native tribes. Let them live in their misery.

I don't wish misery on them, have never met a coal miner or know anything about that industry. I do understand numbers and it seems like we talk way more about coal jobs than we should. There haven't been a lot of miners for some time. Even at the peak we are talking less than 1m. For several generations we are talking a few 100k.

 

[Moonbeam]

I would suggest that small towns need to become additive manufacturing centers. The first line of business should be printing large scale 3D printers to sell to other towns, and then machines to process plastic waste and other materials for printer ink. From there the possibilities are endless.

 

[brycejones]

If I remember correctly, Wyoming shot itself in the foot with some new opportunities. For instance, their wind energy tax has disincentivized the construction of wind farms - something that could have been a source for continued growth in the state.

Couldn’t have wind competing with coal.

 

[1prophet]

Coal miners are the dumbest mother fuckers in the history of the world. They got locked into owing their existence to their employer (and tried to demonize people that didn't) while they got life long ailments and other shit from it with no options to really get the fuck out of it, then are surprised when their industry which is the dirtiest dumbest way of creating electricity flounders, leaving them stranded in bumfuck nowhere that's now a superfund site while them and their families got chronic ailments (from working in such an area). Then after a ridiculous amount of shenanigans they expect us to be sympathetic? They were offered green jobs and started frothing at the mouth in anger.

Unless the government decides to put them to use cleaning up those sites, they're fucked if they're not willing to move and learn new trade. In lots of those places there's really no viable alternative industry so they're going to have to move. Perhaps if the federal government decides to just start mining for elements for green equipment, or converts those mines into kinetic batteries.

Frankly the cheapest option seems to be just to send them a bit of money to forget about them, like we did to native tribes. Let them live in their misery.

If you are not a personal responsibility, pull yourself up from your bootstraps compassionate conservative you definitely sound like one just like the current President.

Joe Biden tells coal miners to learn to code

During a rally in New Hampshire, the former vice-president said that computer skills would enable displaced mine workers to access the jobs of the future.

www.mining.com

"Anybody who can go down 300 to 3,000 feet in a mine, sure in hell can learn to program as well, but we don't think of it that way," he said.

"My liberal friends were saying, 'You can't expect them to be able to do that,'" Biden told his New Hampshire audience. "Gimme a break! Anybody who can throw coal into a furnace can learn how to program for God's sake."

At a campaign event on Sunday, Biden spoke about plans to eliminate fossil fuels, including coal. He said he planned to hold executives accountable for using fossil fuels and would "put them in jail," if they didn't comply.

But the harsh reality is all you are accomplishing by berating them no different from conservatives who berate people of color for their poor choices, is paving the road for the next Trump like or worse candidate to be their leader and yours too.

 

[theeedude]

They need to transform themselves, or die out. We don't owe them anything. Mining towns die out around the world all the time, nothing new. It's a good thing because working people are forced to move from a place where they can't be productive, to one where they can be.

 

[zzyzxroad]

If you are not a personal responsibility, pull yourself up from your bootstraps compassionate conservative you definitely sound like one just like the current President.

Joe Biden tells coal miners to learn to code

During a rally in New Hampshire, the former vice-president said that computer skills would enable displaced mine workers to access the jobs of the future.

www.mining.com

"Anybody who can go down 300 to 3,000 feet in a mine, sure in hell can learn to program as well, but we don't think of it that way," he said.

"My liberal friends were saying, 'You can't expect them to be able to do that,'" Biden told his New Hampshire audience. "Gimme a break! Anybody who can throw coal into a furnace can learn how to program for God's sake."

At a campaign event on Sunday, Biden spoke about plans to eliminate fossil fuels, including coal. He said he planned to hold executives accountable for using fossil fuels and would "put them in jail," if they didn't comply.

But the harsh reality is all you are accomplishing by berating them no different from conservatives who berate people of color for their poor choices, is paving the road for the next Trump like or worse candidate to be their leader and yours too.

Well at least he has a coal miner's granddaughter in a prominent advisory position. Did mining.com not cover that one?

I still say we talk about coal jobs 200x more than we should.

 

[K1052]

If I remember correctly, Wyoming shot itself in the foot with some new opportunities. For instance, their wind energy tax has disincentivized the construction of wind farms - something that could have been a source for continued growth in the state.

Yep. Wyoming has phenomenal wind energy potential that the state government decided to cripple exploitation of because they were worried about coal jobs which are done anyway. As I recall Colorado, which has much less attractive wind resources in comparison, has something like three or four times the installed capacity.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Yep. Wyoming has phenomenal wind energy potential that the state government decided to cripple exploitation of because they were worried about coal jobs which are done anyway. As I recall Colorado, which has much less attractive wind resources in comparison, has something like three or four times the installed capacity.

And if the below link is right they have less than 6k coal jobs in the state. I know they are a low population state but we are talking about .9% of their population. Are the decision makers worried about jobs or how much money they make from coal? I don't know anything about the industry but at a high level glance I would guess the latter.

Coal Production & Employment

Campbell County – 2023 Operator Mine Employees Production (Tons) Buckskin Mining Company Buckskin Mine 263 12,462,134 NTEC Antelope Coal Mine 421 19,254,551 NTEC Cordero Rojo Complex 2…

www.wyomingmining.org

 

[hal2kilo]

Coal miners are the dumbest mother fuckers in the history of the world. They got locked into owing their existence to their employer (and tried to demonize people that didn't) while they got life long ailments and other shit from it with no options to really get the fuck out of it, then are surprised when their industry which is the dirtiest dumbest way of creating electricity flounders, leaving them stranded in bumfuck nowhere that's now a superfund site while them and their families got chronic ailments (from working in such an area). Then after a ridiculous amount of shenanigans they expect us to be sympathetic? They were offered green jobs and started frothing at the mouth in anger.

Unless the government decides to put them to use cleaning up those sites, they're fucked if they're not willing to move and learn new trade. In lots of those places there's really no viable alternative industry so they're going to have to move. Perhaps if the federal government decides to just start mining for elements for green equipment, or converts those mines into kinetic batteries.

Frankly the cheapest option seems to be just to send them a bit of money to forget about them, like we did to native tribes. Let them live in their misery.

Yep, seems this phenomena should have been acknowledged a long time ago. Let me see, since I left home, Atlanta, Ga, Plantation, FL, Chicago, Il, Newport New, Va, Groton, CT, Bremerton,WA, Anaheim, CA, and finally back to Bremerton, WA.

 

[K1052]

And if the below link is right they have less than 6k coal jobs in the state. I know they are a low population state but we are talking about .9% of their population. Are the decision makers worried about jobs or how much money they make from coal? I don't know anything about the industry but at a high level glance I would guess the latter.

Coal Production & Employment

Campbell County – 2023 Operator Mine Employees Production (Tons) Buckskin Mining Company Buckskin Mine 263 12,462,134 NTEC Antelope Coal Mine 421 19,254,551 NTEC Cordero Rojo Complex 2…

www.wyomingmining.org

Both from what I've read. Jobs and coal royalties.

 

[NTMBK]

Everyone is working remotely on Zoom right now, and I don't think that will ever change back to what it was. The US should be pouring money into broadband infrastructure (cables in the ground or SpaceX satellites, whichever is more economically viable), and making sure that people anywhere in the country can participate in remote working. If you don't need to trek into the office, a picturesque part of Wyoming with low living costs sounds like a good place to live.

 

[hal2kilo]

Everyone is working remotely on Zoom right now, and I don't think that will ever change back to what it was. The US should be pouring money into broadband infrastructure (cables in the ground or SpaceX satellites, whichever is more economically viable), and making sure that people anywhere in the country can participate in remote working. If you don't need to trek into the office, a picturesque part of Wyoming with low living costs sounds like a good place to live.

This is just out of my ass, but I suspect that the majority of work, cannot be done virtually. We need transporter technology for that.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Both from what I've read. Jobs and coal royalties.

But I don't get the jobs part since we are talking about a very insignificant number. Add in mining automation and even if we mine more coal will we ever see significant job creation?

 

[woolfe9998]

I recall reading an article in 2015 which said that the U.S. was producing about 90% of the coal that it produced 30 years prior in 1985, but doing so with only one-tenth as much labor. The vast majority of coal jobs were automated away a long time ago, even before the advent of natural gas and renewables which are putting the final nail in the coffin.

The 6K coal jobs in WY are macro-economically insignificant. Of course everyone's job is important to them, but I fail to see the reason for such outsized attention to such a tiny slice of the US job market, all because of the political right's cheap populist rhetoric which seems to suggest that these 80K US jobs are more important than millions of jobs elsewhere, which is not even to speak of climate change and clean air.

The funniest thing in that article is when it says that basically everyone in this town knows that Trump did not keep his promise to save coal jobs, but 90% voted for him in 2020 anyway. I guess you can't fix stupid.

 

[balloonshark]

Here in WV it would go along way if we didn't prop coal up on a pedestal and worship it like the 2A. Coal is beaten into the brains of grade school children much like religion was for most of us. It's just another form of control to keep the people in line while the politicians line their pockets with coal donations.

The myth of good paying coal jobs comes with the caveat that you're exchanging having a long life for money. Then after you retire there is a good chance that the company files for bankruptcy and the pension and benefits you were promised disappears. And don't forget the environmental impact from the runoff, damns and the unground mine fires that will still be burning after you and I are gone.

You all have seen bits and pieces of Trump rallies but they pale in comparison to the ones a coal company has. If you get a chance watch the 'Blood on the Mountain' documentary.

https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/blood-on-the-mountain

 

[Vic]

I recall reading an article in 2015 which said that the U.S. was producing about 90% of the coal that it produced 30 years prior in 1985, but doing so with only one-tenth as much labor. The vast majority of coal jobs were automated away a long time ago, even before the advent of natural gas and renewables which are putting the final nail in the coffin.

The 6K coal jobs in WY are macro-economically insignificant. Of course everyone's job is important to them, but I fail to see the reason for such outsized attention to such a tiny slice of the US job market, all because of the political right's cheap populist rhetoric which seems to suggest that these 80K US jobs are more important than millions of jobs elsewhere, which is not even to speak of climate change and clean air.

The funniest thing in that article is when it says that basically everyone in this town knows that Trump did not keep his promise to save coal jobs, but 90% voted for him in 2020 anyway. I guess you can't fix stupid.

It's not that they're stupid (per se), it's that they're resistant to change, regardless of how inevitable. And so instead of adapting to change, they insist that govt subsidize their way of life so they don't have to change. The outsized attention is because they have disproportionately large political influence in Washington. That plus the whole conservative victim complex, where in their minds the reason their town is dying is because they're being persecuted politically, and not because of economics.
But no, they're not stupid, they've managed to get the whole country talking about their little town and their 6k jobs, even as they, as Trump voters, have proven themselves to be extremely antipathetic to the plight of the people in the big cities.

 

[K1052]

But I don't get the jobs part since we are talking about a very insignificant number. Add in mining automation and even if we mine more coal will we ever see significant job creation?

Probably not insignificant to WY where the total population is less than 600K.

 

[Bitek]

They need to transform themselves, or die out. We don't owe them anything. Mining towns die out around the world all the time, nothing new. It's a good thing because working people are forced to move from a place where they can't be productive, to one where they can be.

Rocky Mountains are full of ghost towns when silver/whatever mine went bust.

It's bad policy and anti-capitalistic to subsidize dying towns who cannot transform and innovate.

They have options, but I'll support helping budding industries, but it comes with some expectations of change.