How to squat a LOT of weight

[Nvidiaguy07]

As far as i can remember, ive never been able to squat a lot compared to every thing else i can lift. For example, last time i was in really good shape, i was 180, benching 325, and squatting slightly less than that - which is weird, because most people can at least squat more than they can bench, and most of the time its much more.

I know some of the reason i cant now is because i had back problems a few years back, and now when i put a ton of weight on my shoulders, i can instatly feel it in my lower back. But i think if i was good at them to start off with - i would be able to get over it, and eventually lifting this much would probably help me in that area more than anything.

Currently, im more than halfway through the insanity 60-day program which i did to get back in shape (its really good btw, recommend it to anyone who hates doing cardio on treadmills and stupid crap like that). I just starting lifting again this week, and all im doing to get back into it is just a 5 day workout that would be:

monday: deadlifts
tuesday: chest (little bit of triceps)
wednesday: back (some biceps)
thursday: shoulders (triceps if needed)
friday: Legs (only squats so far, will start lunges and other stuff soon)
sat and sun: no lifting, but can do other crap (abs, run etc)

Now really when it comes down to it, I really dont care about being huge and bulky (id rather just be skinny and in shape), but i would like to even my strength out - so if my upper body is that strong, i need to squat at least 450lbs to feel like im somewhat evened out.

Once i really start getting back into lifting and gaining muscle - what kind workouts should i do?

I want to say high school was when i saw the most progress - and that was when we just did the same workout 3 times a week (bench squats, cleans, some other dumb crap). Now what i have read, and have abided by for the last 10 years since then, is that your not supposed to do that, and your better off giving the muscles more time to rest, but i cant help thinking that once a week really isnt enough for my legs to really get stronger (though it does work for my chest?)

Ive tried to slightly incorporate this into my current schedule - where i do squats and stuff on one day, and deadlifts on another (tough to do both on the same day anyway).

I know a lot has to do with form too, but i feel like my form is pretty good. If anything i go too low, but once i get heavy weight my form starts to break down, and im forced to stay pretty light.

Again, like i said before, not hugely important to me, because i just want to be in shape, and dont care about being really muscley. But as someone who enjoys lifting, i envy people who are able to squat a ton. I feel like thats much more indicative of real strength, and being able to bench 300+lbs is more for show than anything else.

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[Phanuel]

I want to say high school was when i saw the most progress - and that was when we just did the same workout 3 times a week (bench squats, cleans, some other dumb crap). Now what i have read, and have abided by for the last 10 years since then, is that your not supposed to do that, and your better off giving the muscles more time to rest, but i cant help thinking that once a week really isnt enough for my legs to really get stronger (though it does work for my chest?)

Incoming "Starting Strength" suggestions which suggest doing exactly that... SA or someone else can get you started.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Starting Strenght. Squat 3 times a week, squat heavy.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

If you're 180 and squatting over 300lbs, you're not really a novice anymore so programs like Starting Strength and Stronglifts 5x5 Beginner Program aren't gonna be great for you. I'd look into programs like the Texas Method, madcow 5x5, and wendler 5/3/1 intermediate programs. They're directed at slower, but steadier gains.

 

[rga]

Incoming "Starting Strength" suggestions which suggest doing exactly that... SA or someone else can get you started.

Did he change his name to SociallyAdept?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

"If anything i go too low, but once i get heavy weight my form starts to break down, and im forced to stay pretty light."

Sounds like you know when your form is bad when you are mid lift. If that is correct and you lift as heavy as you say you do, I'd call you intermediate also.

I'd do what SC recomends. When your form breaks down, keep in mind that you shoudl be considering those failed lifts even if you get it all the way up.

FWIW: Good mornings area favorite "extra" leg workout of mine. So are calf raises.

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

If you're 180 and squatting over 300lbs, you're not really a novice anymore so programs like Starting Strength and Stronglifts 5x5 Beginner Program aren't gonna be great for you. I'd look into programs like the Texas Method, madcow 5x5, and wendler 5/3/1 intermediate programs. They're directed at slower, but steadier gains.

well that weight is about what i plateau at when i do a hard leg workout once a week. But also now that i think of it, i also plateau at the same weight with chest when i do it once a week... but its a much higher number so doesnt really bother me. I used to be 180 and squat that much for maybe a 1 rep max. Right now im about 200 and just starting lifting again. If i had to guess, id say my max is around 250 right now, which now that i think about it isnt that far off my max when i have been working out for months.

Where do i find these workouts? Im on http://startingstrength.com/ and i see a bunch of different articles.

Did he change his name to SociallyAdept?

who is he?

"If anything i go too low, but once i get heavy weight my form starts to break down, and im forced to stay pretty light."

Sounds like you know when your form is bad when you are mid lift. If that is correct and you lift as heavy as you say you do, I'd call you intermediate also.

I'd do what SC recomends. When your form breaks down, keep in mind that you shoudl be considering those failed lifts even if you get it all the way up.

FWIW: Good mornings area favorite "extra" leg workout of mine. So are calf raises.

Id consider myself intermediate, but before this week i havent touched a weight in at least 6 months, so for at least a month or so ill include myself as a beginner.

I dont think my legs are the real problem when i go to do heavy weight, i think its a combination of all the stabilizer muscles, and tension on my lower back that really hinders me seeing any results.

For example: If i dont bench for a VERY long time, the first few times i bench, its not just about going straight up and down - i feel all wobbily, and it takes a few times to get my form down. I need to get that with squats, because once i really get up there is weight i just feel bad going into it.


But like someone said before - i think i might try squatting 3 times a week and see if that helps. Not sure why, but i think this is the only way to break my plateau. How long can i expect to see gains like this and then have to switch to a once a week workout?

And is going heavy cardio going to effect my results?

 

[alkemyst]

Lifting 5 days a week is probably slowing your progress.

 

[Nvidiaguy07]

Lifting 5 days a week is probably slowing your progress.

well thats just my schedule now because im trying to get back into it. Im still primarily doing insanity as my main workout, and then doing some weights to start adding some muscle back and get ready for when im done with this program.

 

[alkemyst]

well thats just my schedule now because im trying to get back into it. Im still primarily doing insanity as my main workout, and then doing some weights to start adding some muscle back and get ready for when im done with this program.

You should need less than an hour for any good workout...get that out of the way and eat/sleep/grow.

 

[Plugers]

I don't know if this would help, but I just did 450 on the squat sled (?) where you lay down and slide the whole platform and weights up. I don't do near that with free weights on the rack. I haven't done squats in years before that.

Why don't you start out on that or add that to build up strength and then your regular squat should go up too.

I'm just getting back into lifting so I may be off, but it sounds logical to me.

 

[alkemyst]

I don't know if this would help, but I just did 450 on the squat sled (?) where you lay down and slide the whole platform and weights up. I don't do near that with free weights on the rack. I haven't done squats in years before that.

Why don't you start out on that or add that to build up strength and then your regular squat should go up too.

I'm just getting back into lifting so I may be off, but it sounds logical to me.

That's a leg press, not really equal to a squat. It removes all the stabilizer muscles from the equation. I can leg press multiples of my squat max.

 

[Plugers]

I'm just thinking it should help squat too, I may be wrong though, I know it doesn't involve the stabilizer muscles.

I guess I was thinking that working the separate parts can help with the whole, but like I said, I am not very knowledgeable in lifting. Just getting back into it and just did what the trainer told me to before.

 

[alkemyst]

I'm just thinking it should help squat too, I may be wrong though, I know it doesn't involve the stabilizer muscles.

I guess I was thinking that working the separate parts can help with the whole, but like I said, I am not very knowledgeable in lifting. Just getting back into it and just did what the trainer told me to before.

IMHO leg press is only good for those who can't squat. If you have been injured then leg press is a good way to get back, I blew out my shoulder and had it fixed 3 months ago. I do assisted pullups and dips still because of that.

 

[KIAman]

I've been squatting almost a year now and my only hitch was keeping the bar on my shoulders without hurting my arms.

One thing I notice all over my gym with guys who consistently rep 315 on bench press then attempt to squat is form, form, form. They barely do 225 for 5 reps then they are done all the while grunting like they are having their balls pulled off.

Here is what I notice. All the books, education, online stuff on form is GENERALIZED. I like Rippetoe's explanation on squat form not just the form itself but WHY you apply the form.

For example, feet should be about shoulder width apart. Does this mean it must be exactly shoulder width? No. If you read his explanation, he says this is because the average person has shoulder width similar to hip width. You really should have your heels at hip width but it's easier to gauge with your shoulders so all the guides tell you shoulder width apart.

Feet should be pointed out at 35 degree angle. Does this have to be exactly 35 degrees? Nope. It is explained that the reason is that the average person who keeps their heels hip width apart has their knees naturally pointing out around 35 degrees. And the feet follow the knees (the knee is not a twisting joint) so if you point your feet out at 35 degrees, your knees naturally follow your hip movement on the way down.

So basically, I see guys try such strict form (which their body type is not designed for) that they destroy themselves with lack of coordination. One guy needs to have his heels in closer because his shoulders are about 3 inches wider than his hips. Another guy needs to bring his feet out at 45 degree angle because his knees stick out way too much at 35 degrees and it looks like he is twisting his knees out and has bad butt wink.

Try out a squat form that is comfortable for your body and squat down like you are sitting on a low chair that is placed too far behind you that you possibly can't reach but you are gonna try anyway. Squat up like you are trying to paint the wall behind you with a wipe of your butt (hip drive).

To give you some reference, I am 200lbs, I rep 3x5x300lbs squat and have a 1 bench max of 225. I've been weight lifting for a little under 1 year. I started squats with just the bar 45lbs. LOL!

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

KIA,

Post of the year possibly?

The 35 degree thing is very important as it helps to keep your knee naturally "in line" during the squat so you have less likelihood of injury.

I never read Rippetoe's book. have a copy of it around somewhere though ;-) Watched his videos multiple times on all the exercises. I like your explanation of squat form. I don't know if I ever read about the part going back up (painting the wall behind you with your butt)

 

[Pantlegz]

Before you worry about how much you can lift make sure your form is solid. I've been working on getting past a plateau(~550lbs) due to not perfect form. Also getting back into it start light. Not just to make sure your form is ok it will also help with flexibility and getting a full ROM since you haven't been squatting much lately. I would do a 90 day Starting Strength program and see where you are if your numbers are good go with something like 5/3/1 or Texas method. Stretch a lot post workout and warm up with foam rolling at least once a week. Mobilitywod has some good advice when it comes to hip flexors and ankle mobility to help with squats.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

KIA,

Post of the year possibly?

The 35 degree thing is very important as it helps to keep your knee naturally "in line" during the squat so you have less likelihood of injury.

I never read Rippetoe's book. have a copy of it around somewhere though ;-) Watched his videos multiple times on all the exercises. I like your explanation of squat form. I don't know if I ever read about the part going back up (painting the wall behind you with your butt)

The whole 35 degree out thing actually is kid of a mehhh idea for me. It tends to cause excessive pronation at the subtalar joint, especially in those with insufficient ankle motion. I typically suggest 10-20 degrees, as you can activate your hip's external rotators more effectively due to the muscle length-tension relationship. With that, you can actually use your hips to keep your knees out more effectively. Essentially, that's what most Oly lifters utilize and, I have to say, their squat form tends to be miles ahead of powerlifters' squat form.

Technically, the foot position will change if you have any femur deformities. For example, I have what's called femoral retrotorsion so my femur is built such that my knee is in a neutral position when my toes are slightly out. Because of that, I have a slightly more toed-out squat stance. It does (and should) vary with each individual. If they're just not comfortable, change it.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

KIA,

Post of the year possibly?

The 35 degree thing is very important as it helps to keep your knee naturally "in line" during the squat so you have less likelihood of injury.

I never read Rippetoe's book. have a copy of it around somewhere though ;-) Watched his videos multiple times on all the exercises. I like your explanation of squat form. I don't know if I ever read about the part going back up (painting the wall behind you with your butt)

I've started to disagree with the 35 degrees thing as I get higher and higher squats. At lower squats, 35 degrees was fine, but after I hit about 410 or so pounds, I had a really hard time finishing up squats. I shoved my feet inward a bit to about 10-15 degrees and it tremendously helped my squats because it kept my hip drive going and I could lock out istead of struggling at the tail end.

I think what was happening was at the 35 degree angle, my knees had too much movement room and was collapsing inward taking power out of my drive. But shoving my need inward, it locked my knees into moving into one direction and so I could easily do my squats.

 

[Pantlegz]

you should only angle your toes out to make up for a lack of mobility, there is more strength the more straight your toes are but still allowing your knees to bow out, or at least not shift inwards. At very least in my experience but I think I saw/read something some time ago that agreed with it.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

you should only angle your toes out to make up for a lack of mobility, there is more strength the more straight your toes are but still allowing your knees to bow out, or at least not shift inwards. At very least in my experience but I think I saw/read something some time ago that agreed with it.

Right, the thing is that you should only use that temporarily as you take action to correct the mobility problems. Most people don't do that. They don't understand that toes excessively out can result in excessive valgus stress at the knee, which puts them at risk of ACL, MCL tears and meniscus damage.