How to select a PS for micro-atx

[Batmeat]

My birthday is coming up. Time to sell of my current rig (i7 860) and build a small quiet one with a mATX case. I've never looked into the micro arena till now. The only problem I'm having is finding power supplies for them. I plan on putting in a GTX 560 Ti for games, but I don't know how you select a PS for micro rigs? Somehow I doubt I can buy a regular ATX supply and stick in mini tower. Help???

 

[birthdaymonkey]

Most mATX chassis will take a full size PSU. Just make sure the case you get is compatible. When you get down to miniITX systems, non-standard PSUs become more common. Modular is definitely a good idea in any case, and you shouldn't need more than a 500-600 watt model.

 

[Batmeat]

Awesome, thanx...I'll have to measure my current PS then, maybe just swap into the new rig.

 

[Zap]

Choose the case first, then choose the PSU which fits it. As mentioned, most micro ATX "mini towers" use normal ATX PSUs. The only limitation would be that it can't be super long/deep.

What you may want to do as well is to "right size" the PSU wattage for your system. That means not buying a PSU that is a lot more wattage than your system needs.

Single GTX 560 Ti in a typical mATX mini tower? This $63 80Plus Gold PSU would work great!

 

[jaydee]

This is a little old, but I want to add that while, regular ATX PSU's fit, in my limited experience they really restrict airflow, and make it difficult to work inside the PC.

I've got regular ATX PSU in a Lian Li Q11 (see sig), and I just bought (haven't recieved yet) a Diablotek PHD380M (380W), to see if I can alleviate some of those issues mentioned above.

 

[Zap]

I've got regular ATX PSU in a Lian Li Q11 (see sig), and I just bought (haven't recieved yet) a Diablotek PHD380M (380W), to see if I can alleviate some of those issues mentioned above.

Cancel your order IMMEDIATELY and buy this one instead:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004VF4R4U/ (use this link and not the one you linked to in the other thread)

REASONS:
1) Your other link was to an older model and a 3rd party seller. This link is "sold by Amazon" for the same price, plus eligible for free shipping.
2) DiabloTek is fail.
3) The FSP PSU I linked to comes with an ATX adapter plate which you will need to be able to use it in your Lian Li PC-Q11 case. Will probably cost you another $10 (I've seen $5 +$5 shipping) to buy the adapter plate separately.

Seriously ditch that DiabloTek PSU while you still have a chance. DiabloTek PSUs are horrible. The few legit reviews (ones that used load testers) have found them to not live up to their labels. Also, this particular one doesn't even have active PFC, a sure sign of an old, cheap and inefficient design.

The FSP on the other hand is a reasonable quality unit that is used in the Silverstone SG05/SG06 and is known to be able to consistently put out every single one of the 300W it claims. The big difference between the original FSP and the Silverstone rebadge is that Silverstone gets FSP to include a 6-pin PCIe power plug.

 

[jaydee]

Cancel your order IMMEDIATELY and buy this one instead:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004VF4R4U/ (use this link and not the one you linked to in the other thread)

REASONS:
1) Your other link was to an older model and a 3rd party seller. This link is "sold by Amazon" for the same price, plus eligible for free shipping.
2) DiabloTek is fail.
3) The FSP PSU I linked to comes with an ATX adapter plate which you will need to be able to use it in your Lian Li PC-Q11 case. Will probably cost you another $10 (I've seen $5 +$5 shipping) to buy the adapter plate separately.

Seriously ditch that DiabloTek PSU while you still have a chance. DiabloTek PSUs are horrible. The few legit reviews (ones that used load testers) have found them to not live up to their labels. Also, this particular one doesn't even have active PFC, a sure sign of an old, cheap and inefficient design.

The FSP on the other hand is a reasonable quality unit that is used in the Silverstone SG05/SG06 and is known to be able to consistently put out every single one of the 300W it claims. The big difference between the original FSP and the Silverstone rebadge is that Silverstone gets FSP to include a 6-pin PCIe power plug.

I've seen one bad review of Diablotek "1050W" PSU (JonnyGuru). One "average" review of a Diablotek 550W model. Can you please substantiate why this particular PHD380M model is so bad?

I know that consumer reviews aren't best resource but they've all I've got to go by. They've actually got pretty good reviews on amazon, tigerdirect and newegg. The biggest complaint is that it's "the wrong physical size" for their mATX tower/motherboard, which we all know is silly.

I did cancel it for now, but I'm waiting for something empirical about why this PSU is so bad. 80+ reviews, I'd expect to see a lot more consumer complaints if they are so bad.

 

[Zap]

Can you please substantiate why this particular PHD380M model is so bad?

I already did:

this particular one doesn't even have active PFC, a sure sign of an old, cheap and inefficient design.

Also, buying their product would reward a company known for putting out crap.

Diablotek PHD650 650W Power Supply Review

There is quite literally no price point or situation where the Diablotek PHD650 should be a consideration for users as it failed almost every test possible today.

Besides this review and the Jonnyguru review, what other quality professional review have you seen on DiabloTek PSUs? Those "reviews" where the PSU just gets hooked up to computer parts don't count either, because one of the prime reasons that DiabloTek "fails" is because it cannot put out what it claims on the label, and you can't accurately measure that by just hooking it up to computer parts.

I know that consumer reviews aren't best resource but they've all I've got to go by. They've actually got pretty good reviews on amazon, tigerdirect and newegg.

DiabloTek was outed around 3 years ago for "seeding" reviews at Tiger Direct. That's another strike against them.

Besides that, many people already buy way too high a wattage for their computer needs, so they are unlikely to discover that the PSU doesn't live up to claims.

A PSU needs to do two things.
1) Be able to output the wattage that the label claims it can.
2) Be able to output that wattage while still staying within ATX specifications of voltage and ripple.

So far, every single DiabloTek PSU that has been tested using equipment that can actually measure those metrics have found that they FAIL.

Not sure how much more clear I can make it. If you still won't believe that you shouldn't purchase a DiabloTek PSU, then I can't help you. D:

 

[jaydee]

Besides that, many people already buy way too high a wattage for their computer needs, so they are unlikely to discover that the PSU doesn't live up to claims.

A PSU needs to do two things.
1) Be able to output the wattage that the label claims it can.
2) Be able to output that wattage while still staying within ATX specifications of voltage and ripple.

So far, every single DiabloTek PSU that has been tested using equipment that can actually measure those metrics have found that they FAIL.

Not sure how much more clear I can make it. If you still won't believe that you shouldn't purchase a DiabloTek PSU, then I can't help you. D:

I guess that's the thing. I'm only drawing ~185W max from the wall with a "crappy" PSU as it is, so I'm not really concerned how it performs at its rated 380W capacity. In the HardOCP review (650W version), they did note that the ripple was fine at the 25-50% capacity. I surely wouldn't trust this brand to put out it's full wattage capacity, but I'll only be asking for less than 50%.

All else being equal, sure I'd get the FSP, but as it is, it does cost 50% more. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to make up the cost difference in efficiency. So I guess I'm still not convinced that the Diablotek is a bad fit *for my situation*.

I'm also thinking about how I had a spare (poorly reviewed) Tt TR2 430W PSU kicking around 2 years ago when I made the build in my sig, but ordered a shiny new, (very well reviewed) Corsair CX400 anyway. Well the CX400 went *pop* on the very first boot-up, and I've been running the TR2 ever since. Does it mean Corsair sucks and Thermaltake is awesome? Of course not. What I did draw from that is, that even a *good* brand have units that are poor, and even *poor* brands have models that are good enough as long as you have sufficient headroom.

 

[Zap]

I'm only drawing ~185W max from the wall with a "crappy" PSU as it is, so I'm not really concerned how it performs at its rated 380W capacity.
...
All else being equal, sure I'd get the FSP, but as it is, it does cost 50% more. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to make up the cost difference in efficiency.

1) You would NOT be getting what you paid for. You are paying for a 380W PSU. You are not receiving a 380W PSU. Does that not disturb you?
2) You would be intentionally (now that I've told you) supporting a company that lies this extensively to consumers.

Would it upset you if your 12oz can of soda only contained 6oz? "Oh, but I wasn't that thirsty anyways." That's not the point.

Also, even if the FSP costs 50% more (which it doesn't if you end up buying an adapter plate which the FSP comes with) it gives you MORE than 50% more +12v power. That 19A +12v on the DiabloTek? If it is true to form, it would be closer to 10-12A of "real" in-spec power. IIRC the FSP does 22.5A combined (it is dual rail), continuous and in-spec with high efficiency.

I'm also thinking about how I had a spare (poorly reviewed) Tt TR2 430W PSU kicking around 2 years ago when I made the build in my sig

Ahhh, Thermaltake, and especially the TR2-430.

Thermaltake is a strange company. They have their good products (for instance Toughpower PSUs are excellent, albeit overpriced) and their mediocre products. The TR2-430 is a mediocre product. It is made by HEC and can meet 90% of the claims on the label. Thus, it is already a lot better than any DiabloTek. Why it is mediocre and has bad reviews is because:
1) It does not quite meet 100% of the claims on the label.
2) It is only 18A on the +12v (of which it can only put out 16A or so).
3) It is a really old design that keeps getting "updated" through sleeving, new connectors and new labels. They now "hide" the actual specs by claiming it is dual rail (it is not) and not giving a combined +12v output.

Thermaltake is probably laughing all the way to the bank on this unit due to how cheap it is to make (in the volumes they order from HEC) and how many they sell.

There is actually ONE good reason I can think of for this unit to exist. If you have an old computer that requires more 3.3v and 5v, and requires the -5v rail (which no longer exists in more "modern" computers) then this is probably the cheapest unit you can easily buy for the "quality." So, it isn't without its merits, however few.

If you really have issue with paying $40 for a PSU, then how about buying a used one instead of supporting DiabloTek? If you aren't in a hurry to get one, PM me and I can hook you up. Alternately cruise the For Sale forums.

 

[jaydee]

Wow, you sure are passionate about not wanting anyone to buy a Diablotek PSU.

Also, even if the FSP costs 50% more (which it doesn't if you end up buying an adapter plate which the FSP comes with) it gives you MORE than 50% more +12v power

I can make my own adapter plate out of sheet metal, I have access to materials and it would be fun.

If you really have issue with paying $40 for a PSU, then how about buying a used one instead of supporting DiabloTek? If you aren't in a hurry to get one, PM me and I can hook you up. Alternately cruise the For Sale forums.

For new build, $40 is paletable.

But since I already have a working PSU and I'm just looking to improve airflow and ease of use of working inside the case. Under $30 is in my justifable price range. For $40 I'm willing to deal with a standard-sized PSU until it dies. That's just where I'm at.

I have no qualms with used PSU. Shipping is so much of the price I wasn't really expecting to find something non-local. I've searched FS/FT here and haven't found a mATX PSU for sale, but it's not an easily searchable item, so I could have missed something. By all means let me know if you or someone you know has one for sale.

 

[TemjinGold]

OP: The issue isn't that your $40 psu will just die randomly one day. The issue is that when it does, it will take the rest of your machine with it. I had a roommate once. I had an Antec PSU, he had a no-name. Power surge hit during a storm and both our PSUs were fried. I needed a new PSU--he needed a whole new computer. It's your money.