How to Save Fuel and reduce running costs in your car

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: propellerhead
"Shut down unneeded electricity consumers when not needed."

How would that help gas mileage?

Well the AC compressor makes a noticeable sucking effect on car power. I would wager that using the stereo, defrosters, lights, etc. would make a barely noticeable one - even with accurate tools. Surely you'd never notice it at the pump. If the alt is indeed spinning at all tmies, then it would make no diff. These items run straight off the battery right? And since the alt is always turning and charging it, then it makes sense that lights on or off would have zero effect.

Basically unless you're willing to change cars the only way to conserve gas is to drive under-aggressively and, as it says, try to maintain speeds as much as possible; accelerating/braking like most of the idiots on the highway do by following too closely is not a great idea.

Otherwise there isn't much you can do.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: propellerhead
"Shut down unneeded electricity consumers when not needed."

How would that help gas mileage?

Simple answer: everything that requires energy comes from burning gas. So duh, turning things off saves gas.

Longer answer: everything that uses energy increases the resistance on the belts which provide power. The increased resistance means the engine must work harder. Thus the engine must use more gas.

The alternator spins whether you are using 0 amps or 100,000 amps. The drag on the engine via the fan belt is the same no matter what is consuming the electrical power.

Is it harder to turn an alternator when you have your high beams on? I think not.

I'm still not convinced this has any impact.

You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: propellerhead

The drag on the engine via the fan belt is the same no matter what is consuming the electrical power.

That part is incorrect.

 

[StageLeft]

You don't understand how an alternator works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increase field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

I see! Course, lights use almost no power to run anyway in the grand scheme of things

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

You don't understand how an alternator works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increase field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

I see! Course, lights use almost no power to run anyway in the grand scheme of things

Depends what lights you're talking about... and how many.

*EDIT* I guarnatee the jackass with all 8 of his KC lights on his bronco behind me is putting a greater demand on his charging system than I am with my low beams.

 

[GasX]

5 Use only 75 percent of the vehicle's top speed.

That's over 100mph! :Q

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

5 Use only 75 percent of the vehicle's top speed.

That's over 100mph! :Q

Yeah, it's like 130 for me

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

5 Use only 75 percent of the vehicle's top speed.

That's over 100mph! :Q

Is it REALLY? I mean... did your car come with Z rated tires? Or did you just hear on Car and Driver or something that the top speed is like 150mph, and your car may actually be limited to 100 mph because of the tires it came with from the factory?

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Mwilding

5 Use only 75 percent of the vehicle's top speed.

That's over 100mph! :Q

Is it REALLY? I mean... did your car come with Z rated tires? Or did you just hear on Car and Driver or something that the top speed is like 150mph, and your car may actually be limited to 100 mph because of the tires it came with from the factory?

Top speed is governed at 143mph and it cames with stock Z rated tires...

 

[Mr N8]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Mwilding

5 Use only 75 percent of the vehicle's top speed.

That's over 100mph! :Q

Is it REALLY? I mean... did your car come with Z rated tires? Or did you just hear on Car and Driver or something that the top speed is like 150mph, and your car may actually be limited to 100 mph because of the tires it came with from the factory?

Top speed is governed at 143mph and it cames with stock Z rated tires...

Mine is governed at 138, which I tested in my stupider days. Anyway, that sticks me at ~103mph.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: MogulMonster

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Mwilding

5 Use only 75 percent of the vehicle's top speed.

That's over 100mph! :Q

Is it REALLY? I mean... did your car come with Z rated tires? Or did you just hear on Car and Driver or something that the top speed is like 150mph, and your car may actually be limited to 100 mph because of the tires it came with from the factory?

Top speed is governed at 143mph and it cames with stock Z rated tires...

Mine is governed at 138, which I tested in my stupider days. Anyway, that sticks me at ~103mph.

Ok... just asking since some people with Neons claim to be able to have done 140+ mph with Discount Tire 150/85/14 tires, lmao.

 

[tRaptor]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS DO NOT DO THIS!

1 Don't warm the engine up with the car at a standstill, instead drive off right away.

That is unless you would like to replace your transmission, and BELIVE ME you DO NOT WANT THAT! Give your car at least 30 sec, preferably 2 min to warm up.

Lets pull you outt bed from a nice sleep and just force you to start running, see how long you last!

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: tRaptor
FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS DO NOT DO THIS!

1 Don't warm the engine up with the car at a standstill, instead drive off right away.

That is unless you would like to replace your transmission, and BELIVE ME you DO NOT WANT THAT! Give your car at least 30 sec, preferably 2 min to warm up.

Lets pull you outt bed from a nice sleep and just force you to start running, see how long you last!

Uh, even my '76 car recommends no warm-up period. The car is supposed to be driven gently to warm it up.

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: tRaptor
FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS DO NOT DO THIS!

1 Don't warm the engine up with the car at a standstill, instead drive off right away.

That is unless you would like to replace your transmission, and BELIVE ME you DO NOT WANT THAT! Give your car at least 30 sec, preferably 2 min to warm up.

Lets pull you outt bed from a nice sleep and just force you to start running, see how long you last!

Uh, even my '76 car recommends no warm-up period. The car is supposed to be driven gently to warm it up.

ZV

From waht I've heard warming up is not really necessary these days. I don't know about you, but for me even if it was necessary I'd rather replace the engine once every weekend than sit there for 30+ seconds while the POS chugs when it's cold. I've got better things to do, like get where I'm going!

 

[Jzero]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Mwilding

5 Use only 75 percent of the vehicle's top speed.

That's over 100mph! :Q

Yeah, it's like 130 for me

Screw that. I drive a Civic. Like hell I'm going to go 30MPH all the time just because it's 75% of the top speed.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: tRaptor
FOR THE LOVE OF GOODNESS DO NOT DO THIS!

1 Don't warm the engine up with the car at a standstill, instead drive off right away.

That is unless you would like to replace your transmission, and BELIVE ME you DO NOT WANT THAT! Give your car at least 30 sec, preferably 2 min to warm up.

Lets pull you outt bed from a nice sleep and just force you to start running, see how long you last!

You're misinformed I believe. That will in no way harm your transmission, although I do understand your reasoning. Cold transmission fluid has slightly different properties than it does at operating temperature, which makes it more possible for the clutches to slip... however, manufacturers take things like this into consideration and build the transmission accordingly. Some cars even increase mainline pressure in an automatic transmission before it warms up to operating temperature to ensure no slipping occurrs.

 

[Scouzer]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Scouzer
1 Don't warm the engine up with the car at a standstill, instead drive off right away.


Okay, no. Maybe in warmer climates where the most horrible winter temperatures at -10, but when its -35 up here, no. You'll kill your car in 5 minutes flat trying to do that.

Okay, no. You should be using oil suited to that climate... if you're not, you deserve to have your engine damaged. Ever since OBDII showed up, cars warm up faster and more efficiently when you drive them rather than let them sit and idle.

Heh. My car's an OBD I. So my post is still valid for my car.

I don't have a temperature gauge either. At -35c it takes 10-15 minutes idling to get warm air coming out of the vents.

I don't know about you guys, but it makes a lot more sense to me to let it run the 10-15mins when I can stay in the house and spend a few cents in gas then it is to drive and freeze horribly.

 

[propellerhead]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

What?! Turning on your lights makes it harder for the rotor to spin inside a magnetic field, thus putting an additional load on the engine?! And that would cause a measurable increase in fuel consumption?! There's not even any physical contact here. No friction. Just wires passing through a magnetic field.

Driving with your windows up or down has a lot more impact on aerodynamics and fuel consumption than the additional "drag" on a spinning rotor in a stronger or thicker magnetic field.

And this made GM's ten ways to save fuel?

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: Jeff7181You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

What?! Turning on your lights makes it harder for the rotor to spin inside a magnetic field, thus putting an additional load on the engine?! And that would cause a measurable increase in fuel consumption?! There's not even any physical contact here. No friction. Just wires passing through a magnetic field.

Driving with your windows up or down has a lot more impact on aerodynamics and fuel consumption than the additional "drag" on a spinning rotor in a stronger or thicker magnetic field.

And this made GM's ten ways to save fuel?

I would have to agree with Jeff. More power demand makes it harder to turn, thus your engine has to work harder. Does it really cause that much of a difference, fuel-wise? Probably not.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: Jeff7181You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

What?! Turning on your lights makes it harder for the rotor to spin inside a magnetic field, thus putting an additional load on the engine?! And that would cause a measurable increase in fuel consumption?! There's not even any physical contact here. No friction. Just wires passing through a magnetic field.

Driving with your windows up or down has a lot more impact on aerodynamics and fuel consumption than the additional "drag" on a spinning rotor in a stronger or thicker magnetic field.

And this made GM's ten ways to save fuel?

I would have to agree with Jeff. More power demand makes it harder to turn, thus your engine has to work harder. Does it really cause that much of a difference, fuel-wise? Probably not.

Seriously, propellorhead...do you know anything about electricity? How do you think an electric motor works? There's no contact there, yet you can get the force to move a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE from an electric motor.

 

[propellerhead]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: Jeff7181You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

What?! Turning on your lights makes it harder for the rotor to spin inside a magnetic field, thus putting an additional load on the engine?! And that would cause a measurable increase in fuel consumption?! There's not even any physical contact here. No friction. Just wires passing through a magnetic field.

Driving with your windows up or down has a lot more impact on aerodynamics and fuel consumption than the additional "drag" on a spinning rotor in a stronger or thicker magnetic field.

And this made GM's ten ways to save fuel?

I would have to agree with Jeff. More power demand makes it harder to turn, thus your engine has to work harder. Does it really cause that much of a difference, fuel-wise? Probably not.

Seriously, propellorhead...do you know anything about electricity? How do you think an electric motor works? There's no contact there, yet you can get the force to move a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE from an electric motor.

Seriously, Sa... please stay on topic. I'm not doubting the power of electric motors, or NUCLEAR power.

I just find it hard to believe that turning your rear window defroster off (as the article recommends) will make a significant decrease in the "field strength" inside an alternator, thus decreasing the torque required to spin the rotor inside this field, thus decreasing the load on an engine...

... thus improving fuel consumption enough to make it to GM/Opel's list of 10 ways to improve fuel consumption.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: Jeff7181You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

What?! Turning on your lights makes it harder for the rotor to spin inside a magnetic field, thus putting an additional load on the engine?! And that would cause a measurable increase in fuel consumption?! There's not even any physical contact here. No friction. Just wires passing through a magnetic field.

Driving with your windows up or down has a lot more impact on aerodynamics and fuel consumption than the additional "drag" on a spinning rotor in a stronger or thicker magnetic field.

And this made GM's ten ways to save fuel?

I would have to agree with Jeff. More power demand makes it harder to turn, thus your engine has to work harder. Does it really cause that much of a difference, fuel-wise? Probably not.

Seriously, propellorhead...do you know anything about electricity? How do you think an electric motor works? There's no contact there, yet you can get the force to move a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE from an electric motor.

Seriously, Sa... please stay on topic. I'm not doubting the power of electric motors, or NUCLEAR power.

I just find it hard to believe that turning your rear window defroster off (as the article recommends) will make a significant decrease in the "field strength" inside an alternator, thus decreasing the torque required to spin the rotor inside this field, thus decreasing the load on an engine...

... thus improving fuel consumption enough to make it to GM/Opel's list of 10 ways to improve fuel consumption.

Well cabin lights probably wouldn't be noteworthy, in the scheme of a car, but I just want you to understand that the force that some of these take to operate is just as great as air resistance.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: Jeff7181You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

What?! Turning on your lights makes it harder for the rotor to spin inside a magnetic field, thus putting an additional load on the engine?! And that would cause a measurable increase in fuel consumption?! There's not even any physical contact here. No friction. Just wires passing through a magnetic field.

Driving with your windows up or down has a lot more impact on aerodynamics and fuel consumption than the additional "drag" on a spinning rotor in a stronger or thicker magnetic field.

And this made GM's ten ways to save fuel?

I would have to agree with Jeff. More power demand makes it harder to turn, thus your engine has to work harder. Does it really cause that much of a difference, fuel-wise? Probably not.

Seriously, propellorhead...do you know anything about electricity? How do you think an electric motor works? There's no contact there, yet you can get the force to move a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE from an electric motor.

Seriously, Sa... please stay on topic. I'm not doubting the power of electric motors, or NUCLEAR power.

I just find it hard to believe that turning your rear window defroster off (as the article recommends) will make a significant decrease in the "field strength" inside an alternator, thus decreasing the torque required to spin the rotor inside this field, thus decreasing the load on an engine...

... thus improving fuel consumption enough to make it to GM/Opel's list of 10 ways to improve fuel consumption.

Dear Lord, you just have no clue, do you?

Ok, Look. Due to the 1st law of thermodynamics, energy is nor created nor destroyed, it merely changes forms. That means that the energy to run your rear window defogger, or the LED in your dash, has to be comming from somewhere. It doesen't come from the air, it doesen't come from the antifreeze you put in your radiator, it comes from the fuel you put in your fuel tank.

It was an example. It was just saying to turn everything off that doesen't need to be on, because it does require energy in the form of gasoline to run.

And you might be surprised. I'd say that it takes more energy to keep a huge sheet of glass warm than you might think. Does anybody have any figures? 25? 35W? Maybe more? No idea really.

I do partially agree though, turning off minor electronic accessories isn't going to effect MPG by any significant ammount..

It's the thought that counts, I guess.

 

[Crappopotamus]

do you save gas by putting the car in neutral compared to when its in drive? i put my car in neutral at long lights.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: XZeroII

Originally posted by: propellerhead

Originally posted by: Jeff7181You don't understand how the charging system in a car works then. When there's a larger electrical demand, the field strength is increased so that the alternator pumps out more juice... increasing field strength makes the alternator harder to spin.

What?! Turning on your lights makes it harder for the rotor to spin inside a magnetic field, thus putting an additional load on the engine?! And that would cause a measurable increase in fuel consumption?! There's not even any physical contact here. No friction. Just wires passing through a magnetic field.

Driving with your windows up or down has a lot more impact on aerodynamics and fuel consumption than the additional "drag" on a spinning rotor in a stronger or thicker magnetic field.

And this made GM's ten ways to save fuel?

I would have to agree with Jeff. More power demand makes it harder to turn, thus your engine has to work harder. Does it really cause that much of a difference, fuel-wise? Probably not.

Seriously, propellorhead...do you know anything about electricity? How do you think an electric motor works? There's no contact there, yet you can get the force to move a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE from an electric motor.

Seriously, Sa... please stay on topic. I'm not doubting the power of electric motors, or NUCLEAR power.

I just find it hard to believe that turning your rear window defroster off (as the article recommends) will make a significant decrease in the "field strength" inside an alternator, thus decreasing the torque required to spin the rotor inside this field, thus decreasing the load on an engine...

... thus improving fuel consumption enough to make it to GM/Opel's list of 10 ways to improve fuel consumption.

Dear Lord, you just have no clue, do you?

Ok, Look. Due to the 1st law of thermodynamics, energy is nor created nor destroyed, it merely changes forms. That means that the energy to run your rear window defogger, or the LED in your dash, has to be comming from somewhere. It doesen't come from the air, it doesen't come from the antifreeze you put in your radiator, it comes from the fuel you put in your fuel tank.

It was an example. It was just saying to turn everything off that doesen't need to be on, because it does require energy in the form of gasoline to run.

And you might be surprised. I'd say that it takes more energy to keep a huge sheet of glass warm than you might think. Does anybody have any figures? 25? 35W? Maybe more? No idea really.

I do partially agree though, turning off minor electronic accessories isn't going to effect MPG by any significant ammount..

It's the thought that counts, I guess.

lol, it takes a lot. trust me, i notice it on my car.

when i dont have the seat heat on (HUGE draw) or the rear window defroster (BIGGGGGG draw) or the defroster up front (BIGGGGG draw)
my voltage is 14 volts (yes, crap alt)
when i turn a single one of those on. my voltage is around 13.8
with all 3 on, my 120 amp alt cant keep up and my voltage will vary quite often.

now if im idling, my voltage is at battery voltage.

MIKE