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How to improve mid-range on a Home Theater system?

C

clicknext

Banned
I've just hooked up my computer to my Home Theater setup.

This includes:
Sony 43" Projection TV
Energy Take 5.1 speakers
Marantz SR4200 receiver

I'm connecting the video via S-video from my All-In-Wonder 9600 Pro. Audio coming from the SPDIF out on Soundstorm audio on my A7N8X-E.

The sound is fvcking amazing!!! I thought I wouldn't notice a gigantic difference from my Logitech Z-560's, but boy was I wrong. Crystal clear highs and equally (relatively speaking) clear, powerful bass.

The only thing I find a bit lacking is the mid range, for some reason. I'm talking about the range where the viola and the cello sit. They don't seem to be as prominent as on my Z-560's. It really shouldn't be a problem with the sound system quality, since this is a very high quality system. I just need to tweak and I don't know how... =/ I couldn't find an equalizer on the receiver, so I assume I have to use the one on my computer, but I don't know which frequencies to adjust...
 
You need to get rid of that svideo connection and go to a component connection..... I dont know what cards do it off the top of my head but there is some flavor of the AIW that does it.
 
Originally posted by: clicknext
I've just hooked up my computer to my Home Theater setup.

This includes:
Sony 49" Projection TV
Take 5.1 speakers
Marantz SR4200 receiver

I'm connecting the video via S-video from my All-In-Wonder 9600 Pro. Audio coming from the SPDIF out on Soundstorm audio on my A7N8X-E.

The sound is fvcking amazing!!! I thought I wouldn't notice a gigantic difference from my Logitech Z-560's, but boy was I wrong. Crystal clear highs and equally (relatively speaking) clear, powerful bass.

The only thing I find a bit lacking is the mid range, for some reason. I'm talking about the range where the viola and the cello sit. They don't seem to be as prominent as on my Z-560's. It really shouldn't be a problem with the sound system quality, since this is a very high quality system. I just need to tweak and I don't know how... =/ I couldn't find an equalizer on the receiver, so I assume I have to use the one on my computer, but I don't know which frequencies to adjust...
Click to expand...
It's a given that smaller speakers image better than larger ones, but have you tried fooling around with the speaker/listening positions, and speaker toe-in?
 
As for getting rid of the s-video connection. If your TV has a RGB-HV input you can just get a simple cable that will hook up to that and use PowerStrip to give it custom timings. I use that on my Mits 65-411 and it looks fantastic. If your TV only has yPbPr inputs, then you can buy the ATI HDTV dongle. It works good, and AFAIK they fixed most of the overscan issues with the newest drivers.
 
lack of mid-range? Please don't tell me you have a boss system.
I heard alot of HTS can do high and low frequencies fairly well because it's what customers listen to
when they are shopping for speakers. Mid-Range gets left out in the cold because nobody notice it until it's too late
 
Play around with the placement. Make sure the speakers aren't too close to a wall, or any enclosed area.
 
It's all perception. I think just about any consumer level, non-studio grade speaker will have a lack of midrange for that 'hi fi' sound that's so typical of what people percieve as 'great sounding.' Bose systems are notorious for that and in my opinion, they are some of the worst sounding speakers when it comes to accuracy of the original sound source.

If you don't have an EQ, you may be left out cold right there unless you stick an EQ between the output of the device and the input of the receiver but that's more work than necessary. There might be SOME kind of EQ control, like presets (rock, concert hall, radio etc.) on the receiver. Look for something like that and mess around by listening to them. Otherwise no, they don't sound good!

Since I have a recording setup, I have a few different kinds of speakers to listen through including headphones and purposely inaccurate speakers to more accurate studio monitors so I know exactly what you're talking about B.
 
Sorry, my speakers are actually "Energy" brand, "Take 5.1" model. I got the impression from various boards that these are pretty high quality speakers and they sure sound like it in movies. My receiver won't allow me to modify the sound in any way if it's getting a Dolby Digital input. I guess what I have to do is play with the EQ on NVMixer, but that would change both sets of speakers since you can't have two different sets of EQ from the same sound card...

By the way, what does "s-direct" on my receiver do? It seems to give a very different sound, fully but sounds a bit muffled? Or maybe the muffled part is just my imagination.

EDIT again: about the s-video connection, it would be nice to be able to go component, but I would have to spend some money get ATI's vga-component adapter, and also buy cables. I'm only going to play some games and stuff on this setup, sometimes listen to music, so picture quality isn't crucial. Watching movies, I just use my DVD player.
 
Originally posted by: clicknext
I've just hooked up my computer to my Home Theater setup.

This includes:
Sony 49" Projection TV
Energy Take 5.1 speakers
Marantz SR4200 receiver

I'm connecting the video via S-video from my All-In-Wonder 9600 Pro. Audio coming from the SPDIF out on Soundstorm audio on my A7N8X-E.

The sound is fvcking amazing!!! I thought I wouldn't notice a gigantic difference from my Logitech Z-560's, but boy was I wrong. Crystal clear highs and equally (relatively speaking) clear, powerful bass.

The only thing I find a bit lacking is the mid range, for some reason. I'm talking about the range where the viola and the cello sit. They don't seem to be as prominent as on my Z-560's. It really shouldn't be a problem with the sound system quality, since this is a very high quality system. I just need to tweak and I don't know how... =/ I couldn't find an equalizer on the receiver, so I assume I have to use the one on my computer, but I don't know which frequencies to adjust...
Click to expand...



It could be that the Z-560s (the speakers and built in amps) and / or the DACs built in to the motherboard were over hyping the midrange. The Marantz amps+ DACs and the Evergy speakers are likely playing back a more balanced natural sound. They might sound a bit off since you're used to the other equipment.

I'd say to give it some time to get used to it. If it continues to bother you, changing the room placement of the speakers could help, or you'd have to EQ it on the computer. The midrange is pretty much the frequencies between 300 - 7000 Hz. ( I'm not sure of exact numbers but this is about right....)
 
Also, the viola +cello are more in the bass + mid bass region of sound than the midrange. It's very likely the Logitecs hype the midbass somewhat to make it sound like stronger bass (to make up for having a realatively small subwoofer that's not really capable of true deep bass...)
 
Originally posted by: clicknext
Sorry, my speakers are actually "Energy" brand, "Take 5.1" model. I got the impression from various boards that these are pretty high quality speakers and they sure sound like it in movies. My receiver won't allow me to modify the sound in any way if it's getting a Dolby Digital input. I guess what I have to do is play with the EQ on NVMixer, but that would change both sets of speakers since you can't have two different sets of EQ from the same sound card...

By the way, what does "s-direct" on my receiver do? It seems to give a very different sound, fully but sounds a bit muffled? Or maybe the muffled part is just my imagination.

EDIT again: about the s-video connection, it would be nice to be able to go component, but I would have to spend some money get ATI's vga-component adapter, and also buy cables. I'm only going to play some games and stuff on this setup, sometimes listen to music, so picture quality isn't crucial. Watching movies, I just use my DVD player.
Click to expand...


Yeah. Energy makes very good speakers. You have nothing to worrie about there. I think you're getting a more acurate sound with the newer system. It seems like you're just used to the sound of your previous set up even though your current system is superior to it.
 
Thanks, heh, it's probably true... even with the seemingly weak midrange, the new system sounds way better than my computer speakers. Now... just have to wait for some gaming when CSS comes out... heh heh heh...
 
Originally posted by: cucumber
Also, the viola +cello are more in the bass + mid bass region of sound than the midrange. It's very likely the Logitecs hype the midbass somewhat to make it sound like stronger bass (to make up for having a realatively small subwoofer that's not really capable of true deep bass...)
Click to expand...
Not quite. Lowest note of a viola is roughly 130Hz, and the lowest note of a cello is roughly 81Hz, which could be included in midbass, but that's only the lowest notes. Besides, it's the harmonics which make up the sound of the instrument, not the primary note.
 
I noticed something. The maximum value of my sub's low pass filter is 100 (I'm assuming that's 100Hz), which means the sub will never produce anything near the viola range, leaving it up to the satellites. I'm not hearing it from the little ones much, though. =/
 
Originally posted by: clicknext
I noticed something. The maximum value of my sub's low pass filter is 100 (I'm assuming that's 100Hz), which means the sub will never produce anything near the viola range, leaving it up to the satellites. I'm not hearing it from the little ones much, though. =/
Click to expand...


Any decent speakers should have a tweeter and midrange speaker in the satellites, have you pop open the cover to make sure there are both? If there is only 1, then the design probably compromised between the mid and high range.
 
Yes, of course there is a tweeter and a midrange speaker. 🙂

Here is a link to my system. I got a much better price than the one listed there, though. I think that it may be that I'm used to listening to a different balance of sound from my Z-560's, as cucumber said. I believe the subwoofer of the Z-560's handles a lot of the mid range because the satellites on those computer speakers lack a tweeter so it has to handle a broad range of sounds.

The highs on the HT system are so good they are almost overwhelming. It's like an entire range that the Z-560's were missing. Muted trumpet solos in particular are great.
 
When it comes to mid range, only good mid range speakers will do the job, use them with a good set and a nice equalizer, boost the middle frequencies as high as possible and lower them until it sounds right.

Everyone is going for the max bass boost and a half decent set of tweeters (which is prettty much ok, tweeters are going to deliver anyway), but if you want decent sound, you need a good set of mid ranged speakers, these can go in the same box as the tweeter or if you have the opportunity to build yourself, you place them in a seperate box, about the same position as the tweeter will do just fine, you could just do a separation out of the tweeter but if you are going to do that then follow instructions carefully.
 
About the video signal, does component offer a big improvement over S-video? I'm talking big enough to allow you to at least read text at one resolution level higher. Right now I'm able to read at 800x600, but I wouldn't want to be staring at that for too long.
 
Im sure the midrange is perfectly fine on the energy take 5.1s. Youre just used to the z560 sound, with its single driver cones that totally overemphasize the midrange. Theres also a nice hole in the upper bass on the z560s too.

Just give it a little time, youll get used to it. Its probably ten times closer to what its suppsoed to sound like.

And as far as component cables bother, it wont make that big of a difference unless youve got a HDTV. If you do, then component all the way, but if not, the junmp in quality from svid to comp is much less than from rca/composite to svid.
 
Originally posted by: BD2003
Im sure the midrange is perfectly fine on the energy take 5.1s. Youre just used to the z560 sound, with its single driver cones that totally overemphasize the midrange. Theres also a nice hole in the upper bass on the z560s too.

Just give it a little time, youll get used to it. Its probably ten times closer to what its suppsoed to sound like.

And as far as component cables bother, it wont make that big of a difference unless youve got a HDTV. If you do, then component all the way, but if not, the junmp in quality from svid to comp is much less than from rca/composite to svid.
Click to expand...

Heh, I have an HDTV compatible TV, which I'm assuming is the same thing as far as resolution is concerned. No VGA in, so I'd have to buy the adapter, and I can't find it in Canada except on the ATI site where it's $50. So what exactly IS the HDTV standard? What kind of hidden quality/resolution does my TV have that makes it "HDTV"?
 
Whats is the crossover setting on your reciever. The Take 5.1 sound the best when they are crossed at around 100hz. 92 seems to be the sweet spot on my set.
 
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