How to handle job & salary offer by phone? (Update: Got the final offer and accepted)

[rasczak]

take it.

 

[Gibson486]

they are 1k off and you are gonna ask for more?

 

[Hacp]

UPDATE: I got the job offer today! It's only $1,000 under my ideal number, so I'll likely accept it as is. I'm still going in tomorrow to speak with the HR rep in person about it. If I do any negotiating at all, it will be prefaced with, "I want to make sure that the existing offer is firm and that discussing it won't jeopardize it in any way."

Say, "I would like to accept your offer with a salary of "(their offer+1000)".

 

[spidey07]

UPDATE: I got the job offer today! It's only $1,000 under my ideal number, so I'll likely accept it as is. I'm still going in tomorrow to speak with the HR rep in person about it. If I do any negotiating at all, it will be prefaced with, "I want to make sure that the existing offer is firm and that discussing it won't jeopardize it in any way."

I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this response, but it is what it is. 10-20 thousand bucks is NOTHING for a company to agree to, nothing. If you really are as desperate as you sound and will take their first offer, then by all means take it. You have found their bottom with the offer, that's the lowball, they hope you take it as is. The bolded gives away your weakness and puts them back in the power position. You don't beg for a job, you make them WANT to pay you what you're worth because you are a premium product.

You're in the power position, they want what you're selling. Your entire position should be "convince me to work for you via compensation, make me an offer that I simply cannot refuse". If they really want you they'll make sure you work for them. Again, 10-20k more in salary is nothing to your employer and everything to you.

Remember, this only works if you don't need the job. It's all about positioning. You're selling now, you're selling yourself.

 

[spidey07]

In this job market, it's $1000 from your high range - I'd just take it. Worry about negotiating when it comes time for a raise, etc. By then you should have accomplished something.

This is total failure on all accounts. Your entire salary is based on what you make at the start, your raises are based on this as a percentage. Your starting salary at any company sets the bar. Another 10-20k on top of the offer means many 10s of thousands of dollars later in terms of raises.

Go make what you are worth.

 

[Lifted]

You're in the power position, they want what you're selling.

Did you even read the thread? He is taking an entry level programming job with no experience and no degree. You really think there aren't hundreds of grads (it's fucking August) that would kill to have this job for 1/2 of what he is making, just to get their foot in the door?

OP, take the job with a smile and a thank you, and if you perform, ask for a raise. It costs a lot more to look for a new employee, and take a chance on them, than to give a solid performer a raise. I started a new job a few months ago. In another few months I'll be making 80% more than when I started. This likely won't happen for you since your going into a much larger company, but you get the idea.

 

[child of wonder]

Did you even read the thread? He is taking an entry level programming job with no experience and no degree. You really think there aren't hundreds of grads (it's fucking August) that would kill to have this job for 1/2 of what he is making, just to get their foot in the door?

OP, take the job with a smile and a thank you, and if you perform, ask for a raise. It costs a lot more to look for a new employee, and take a chance on them, than to give a solid performer a raise. I started a new job a few months ago. In another few months I'll be making 80% more than when I started. This likely won't happen for you since your going into a much larger company, but you get the idea.

You ALWAYS ask for more. 99% of the time the worst that's going to happen is they refuse your counter offer. You then smile and say "I had to try."

Best case scenario they accept your counter, typical scenario is you end up negotiating somewhere between their initial offer and your counter.

Like spidey said, you're selling yourself here. If you were selling a product and you felt it was worth $100 and someone offered you $80, wouldn't you counter them?

OP, once you receive your offer let them know you'd like a day to think about it and ask if you can meet with them in person to give them your answer. Do some research on what the position entails, how your experience and skills relate to it, and why you should get more. Use that information to determine what you think is fair.

When you meet with them say you think they've made a good offer and you're excited about joining their team, however you would like to have $X because of A, B, and C. Tell them if they can offer $X you'd happily accept their offer.

If they shoot you down, try asking for more vacation time. Just remember to ask in a non-threatening and calm manner and be prepared to justify why you think you should get more.

If they continue to shoot you down just give a shy smile and say "I'd never forgive myself if I didn't at least ask." Then you accept their original offer if you're comfortable with that.


For example, I had to counter offer my current job over the phone since we were 250 miles away. They offered $XX,000. I asked for a day to think about it and did my research. Next day I asked for $XX,000 + 6% (was pretty happy with their initial offer so wasn't shooting for the moon) and a $2,000 moving bonus and gave them reasons why I felt the job responsibilities and what I brought to the table warranted the increase. They agreed.

 

[spidey07]

Did you even read the thread? He is taking an entry level programming job with no experience and no degree. You really think there aren't hundreds of grads (it's fucking August) that would kill to have this job for 1/2 of what he is making, just to get their foot in the door?

OP, take the job with a smile and a thank you, and if you perform, ask for a raise. It costs a lot more to look for a new employee, and take a chance on them, than to give a solid performer a raise. I started a new job a few months ago. In another few months I'll be making 80% more than when I started. This likely won't happen for you since your going into a much larger company, but you get the idea.

That is the entire wrong approach, you are begging for a job. "thank you for the gift of a job, hat in hand, with a thank you sir" is not the way to grow your earning potential.

How many people have you not taken based on "I really want him, but he's too expensive". It does happen, but only by people that know what they are worth.

Go make what you're worth.

 

[Imdmn04]

I'm going to catch a lot of flak for this response, but it is what it is. 10-20 thousand bucks is NOTHING for a company to agree to, nothing. If you really are as desperate as you sound and will take their first offer, then by all means take it. You have found their bottom with the offer, that's the lowball, they hope you take it as is. The bolded gives away your weakness and puts them back in the power position. You don't beg for a job, you make them WANT to pay you what you're worth because you are a premium product.

You're in the power position, they want what you're selling. Your entire position should be "convince me to work for you via compensation, make me an offer that I simply cannot refuse". If they really want you they'll make sure you work for them. Again, 10-20k more in salary is nothing to your employer and everything to you.

Remember, this only works if you don't need the job. It's all about positioning. You're selling now, you're selling yourself.

Do not take this guy's advice, what he is says is true, but not for your situation. This is an entry level position, meaning you really have no bargaining power.

I've hired both jr and sr staff, I would be more pissed that you wanted to waste my time negotiating over $1k than the actual amount itself. Anybody that wants to whine about $1k of difference on an entry level job does not have the "big-picture" mentality for me to hire this person. For sr staff that has difficult-to-replace skills, I am willing to swing the figures, sometimes as much as 20-30k (this is where the previous poster is correct, companies don't give a shit about $1k). But for jr and entry level staff, I am sorry unless you graduated from MIT or you are a super hot chick, you just ain't all that special. I would prefer to give you a raise after a probation period when you have proven yourself.

 

[guyver01]

"I want to make sure that the existing offer is firm and that discussing it won't jeopardize it in any way."

please be sure to let us know when they tell you to fuck off..

 

[Lifted]

That is the entire wrong approach, you are begging for a job. "thank you for the gift of a job, hat in hand, with a thank you sir" is not the way to grow your earning potential.

How many people have you not taken based on "I really want him, but he's too expensive". It does happen, but only by people that know what they are worth.

Go make what you're worth.

Exactly. I've hired people before, and if the op's resume crossed my desk it would have went straight into the bin.

One time I interviewed several candidates for a particular job, some wanted 35k, some wanted 75k. We made an offer to the 75k candidate, and ended up going with somebody for 45 or 50k. Would I have hired the 35k jr level nobody for 50k? No. If the 35k guy said boo after getting an offer I would have written him off then and there. That's the way it goes, tough shit.

 

[spidey07]

Do not take this guy's advice, what he is says is true, but not for your situation. This is an entry level position, meaning you really have no bargaining power.

I've hired both jr and sr staff, I would be more pissed that you wanted to waste my time negotiating over $1k than the actual amount itself. Anybody that wants to whine about $1k of difference on an entry level job does not have the "big-picture" mentality for me to hire this person. For sr staff that has difficult-to-replace skills, I am willing to swing the figures, sometimes as much as 20-30k (this is where the previous poster is correct, companies don't give a shit about $1k). But for jr and entry level staff, I am sorry unless you graduated from MIT or you are a super hot chick, you just ain't all that special. I would prefer to give you a raise after a probation period when you have proven yourself.

Didn't fully understand the OP's position. But he can get another 10K out of the offer and my point still stands. Starting salary, especially for entry level, sets all raises, promotions, everything. The biggest mistake all people make is thinking that they are not worth it on their first real job, this sets their attitude throughout their career as they watch people doing the same thing they are doing for 10s of thousands of dollars more.

I'm not just posting this for nothing. It wasn't until I learned this lesson that I was truly able to make what I was worth.

 

[child of wonder]

Exactly. I've hired people before, and if the op's resume crossed my desk it would have went straight into the bin.

One time I interviewed several candidates for a particular job, some wanted 35k, some wanted 75k. We made an offer to the 75k candidate, and ended up going with somebody for 45 or 50k. Would I have hired the 35k jr level nobody for 50k? No. If the 35k guy said boo after getting an offer I would have written him off then and there. That's the way it goes, tough shit.

If you'd write someone off for making a counter offer you probably did them a favor. I wouldn't work for someone like you.

 

[kalrith]

OK, I think I'll change my position a little bit. I'm not going to say the line I mentioned earlier, because that basically says, "I'll accept your offer as-is, but would you pretty please offer some more?" I have a friend who works for this company, and he told me the low, mid, and high salary range for this position. Their offer is a little bit above the low, but not much. I'm going to ask for the mid range (about 20% more) and see if we can meet in the middle. I have done my research already, and their mid range is the going rate for the start of this position when adjusted for the cost of living in my area.

I don't think I'll have the issue of the guy in the other thread who sent 30 emails to the hiring manager, who eventually just hired someone else. I'll be speaking with the HR rep face-to-face tomorrow, so I don't think he'll kick me out of his office and cancel his offer just for some friendly negotiations.

Edit: I do really need this job, but I don't want him to know that. As soon as he does, then all negotiating power is in his court.

 

[kalrith]

Exactly. I've hired people before, and if the op's resume crossed my desk it would have went straight into the bin.

That's a pretty bold statement considering you haven't seen my resume. It sounds more like you're just being a douche.

 

[Numenorean]

This is total failure on all accounts. Your entire salary is based on what you make at the start, your raises are based on this as a percentage. Your starting salary at any company sets the bar. Another 10-20k on top of the offer means many 10s of thousands of dollars later in terms of raises.

Go make what you are worth.

If it's that close to what his high mark was then there is no issue taking it, unless he grossly underestimated his high mark in the fist place. But we have no numbers or info so just going by what is known.

 

[Gibson486]

OK, I think I'll change my position a little bit. I'm not going to say the line I mentioned earlier, because that basically says, "I'll accept your offer as-is, but would you pretty please offer some more?" I have a friend who works for this company, and he told me the low, mid, and high salary range for this position. Their offer is a little bit above the low, but not much. I'm going to ask for the mid range (about 20% more) and see if we can meet in the middle. I have done my research already, and their mid range is the going rate for the start of this position when adjusted for the cost of living in my area.

I don't think I'll have the issue of the guy in the other thread who sent 30 emails to the hiring manager, who eventually just hired someone else. I'll be speaking with the HR rep face-to-face tomorrow, so I don't think he'll kick me out of his office and cancel his offer just for some friendly negotiations.

Edit: I do really need this job, but I don't want him to know that. As soon as he does, then all negotiating power is in his court.

That is a better strategy. If you are gonna negotiate, do it for an amount that's worth it. Not $1k, which is only amount to single digit dollars after taxes

 

[kalrith]

If it's that close to what his high mark was then there is no issue taking it, unless he grossly underestimated his high mark in the fist place. But we have no numbers or info so just going by what is known.

Just to be clear, it's $1k below my ideal, not my high. I'm going to ask for my high, which happens to be the average market rate for this position and the midpoint of this position according to my inner-company source. The mid is 13% above what they're offering, so it's neither a crazy high amount nor just $1k.

I'm basically going to accept whatever he counters with even if that's the original offer. However, there's a chance he'll increase his offer, and the negotiation is worth it even if he only increases it $1k. I don't think there's much, if any, risk of losing the offer.

My meeting is with the HR manager, not with the hiring manager. I doubt he has the authority to cancel my offer, but he probably has a set range of numbers with which to work for my salary. I'm just trying to get a little higher in that range.

 

[Farang]

If the offer was fair and there are factors outside of compensation that really draw you to the position (location, experience, etc.) you should just take the offer. I think the rule of always counter offering is a bit silly if they give you a fair offer, especially for an entry-level position.

If it was $1k below your ideal, it was basically your ideal. I mean even if we're talking in the $30k-$40k range, $1k should not be something that sways your decision. Especially if this is a job you're excited about doing. So you're pushing your luck and being greedy by trying to raise an ideal offer.

I also wonder how you've evaluated the entire package, including health benefits and vacation. These variables typically affect your take-home more than $1k. How much are you going to be paying out of pocket for health care versus what you pay now? How much vacation/holidays versus what you get now?

 

[kalrith]

Well, I did exactly what I said I was going to do. The HR rep had to go back to the hiring manager to discuss the terms with her. She wouldn't budge on salary (which is what I expected), but she did waive the 6-month probation period and give me 9 days PTO (6 months' worth) as soon as I start. Then, after 6 months, I'll get a full year's worth of PTO just like I would normally.

So, I basically got an extra $1400 PTO from the negotiation, and I didn't lose the job offer. I say that's a pretty decent pay out, and I'm very pleased with it. OTOH I probably would've killed myself if they had offered the job to someone else

Edit: And I do realize that this is an entry-level position, and that's why I didn't expect much, if any, change in the salary. I'm just elated to get my foot in the door of a very large company for my area (~900 employees) that has a solid career path within the firm.

 

[child of wonder]

Good work! Congrats! I'm glad you made them a counter and it panned out for you!

 

[oddyager]

Didn't fully understand the OP's position. But he can get another 10K out of the offer and my point still stands. Starting salary, especially for entry level, sets all raises, promotions, everything. The biggest mistake all people make is thinking that they are not worth it on their first real job, this sets their attitude throughout their career as they watch people doing the same thing they are doing for 10s of thousands of dollars more.

I'm not just posting this for nothing. It wasn't until I learned this lesson that I was truly able to make what I was worth.

If you plan to stick with your first job for ages to comes, then this is sound. However most graduates view their first job as training and getting work experience. Taking a few thousand less means nothing if it can land you a job right away especially in this awful market. Your second job you can then negotiate to however you feel you are worth.

 

[oddyager]

Well, I did exactly what I said I was going to do. The HR rep had to go back to the hiring manager to discuss the terms with her. She wouldn't budge on salary (which is what I expected), but she did waive the 6-month probation period and give me 9 days PTO (6 months' worth) as soon as I start. Then, after 6 months, I'll get a full year's worth of PTO just like I would normally.

So, I basically got an extra $1400 PTO from the negotiation, and I didn't lose the job offer. I say that's a pretty decent pay out, and I'm very pleased with it. OTOH I probably would've killed myself if they had offered the job to someone else

Edit: And I do realize that this is an entry-level position, and that's why I didn't expect much, if any, change in the salary. I'm just elated to get my foot in the door of a very large company for my area (~900 employees) that has a solid career path within the firm.

Great news. :thumbsup:

 

[boomhower]

Congrats. Work is hard to find in this environment, especially at a pay rate your comfortable with.

 

[BoomerD]

Congrats!