How to fix rush hour traffic once and for all?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by senttoschool, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    If both went 100 miles, both used the road the same amount, both should pay the same road use tax.

    Does a 29mpg 4000 pound Taurus really wear the road much less than a 20mpg 4500 pound Grand Cherokee?

    Even a Prius weighs 3000 pounds...
     
    #26 LTC8K6, Dec 3, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  2. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    Go back and see my edit from 3 minutes before you replied.
     
  3. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    The board created a new page with my post... :biggrin:
     
  4. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    Well, I agree with you in theory.
     
  5. EagleKeeper

    EagleKeeper Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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    Change your page settings :\
     
  6. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    Unfortunately, I'm not clairvoyant...
     
  7. amdhunter

    amdhunter Lifer

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    Give everyone Police sirens.
     
  8. ElFenix

    ElFenix Super Moderator and Elite Member
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    the only things that actually wear the road are heavy trucks.


    fixed.

    and yes, this is badly needed. people have no clue what to do with exit ramps. the left lanes on the highway will be going 70, the feeder will be doing 50, and people on the ramp will be exiting at 25 because some ass tapped his brakes at 4:45 for no reason. combine that with people sitting in the rightmost lane even though they're not exiting and you've got accidents waiting to happen.

    though, the computers should be programmed to merge late because that's the most optimal way to do it.

    http://www.edmunds.com/driving-tips/car-merging-psychology-dont-hate-the-sidezoomer.html
     
    #33 ElFenix, Dec 3, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  9. KnightBreed

    KnightBreed Lifer

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    Technically, we don't pay enough. The DOT is massively underfunded. States spent billions expanding the road infrastructure as people sprawl from one place to another. Now they can afford the upkeep. It's especially bad since the gas tax hasn't changed in about 20 years. Hasn't even kept up with inflation.
     
  10. 1nf1d3l

    1nf1d3l Member

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    People have a hard enough time controlling their vehicle in mainly 2 dimensions as is...give them 50% more and I can only see problems.
     
  11. JTsyo

    JTsyo Lifer

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    Isn't the gas tax on the dollar amount? Not per gallon.
     
  12. ElFenix

    ElFenix Super Moderator and Elite Member
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    no
     
  13. Chiropteran

    Chiropteran Diamond Member

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    Do you live in a magical fantasy-land where drivers don't already do this?

    If we could fix traffic on interstates I'd call it a net gain, even if it doesn't stop preexisting traffic on local roads.
     
  14. KeithP

    KeithP Diamond Member

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    First let me say I didn't watch the entire video. But while the speaker calls the fee imposed a congestion charge to reduce rush hour traffic, he seems to be specifically citing a charge that was imposed on the use of bridges. From what I saw, the charge always applied not just during "rush hour." Such a charge might work in this type of situation because much of the travel is probably discretionary.

    I really doubt this would work for reducing traffic at rush hour. Most people on the road at this time are there because they are heading to or from work. Charging them a couple of bucks won't make them go into work 2 hours early or stay 2 hours late. It won't make them take public transit and quadruple their travel time. It might make them take a somewhat longer route to avoid the charge which would then cause congestion on other streets.

    Why am I not surprised some egghead from Europe sees the answer to a problem as another government fee?

    -KeithP
     
  15. Chiropteran

    Chiropteran Diamond Member

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    The thing is, traffic is not a zero sum game. 100,000 people trying to get to drive down one road at the same time cuts the speed to a crawl and it may take each them 2 hours to travel 15 miles. 100,000 people driving down the exact same road, but spread out such that 10,000 people use the road every half-hour, and suddenly the drive only takes 20 minutes.

    There are measurable benefits to forcing stupid people to not do stupid things. If money is the one stick that works to get the stupid people to do what is needed, then we must use money, in the form of a fee.
     
  16. Zap

    Zap Elite Member

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    This really does help. I used to work at a place that I could go in early and leave early. My wife currently works at a place where she gets in late and leaves late. Only traffic congestion comes from incidents, not rush hour. Example of an "incident." Yes, my wife was really pissed at the extra hour+ to get home. She gets grouchy when hungry. :D
     
  17. Railgun

    Railgun Golden Member

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    Your logic works on the assumption that those people don't actually have to be somewhere at the same time. If you have 100,000 people that need to get to point B at about the same time, and it will still be faster than taking an alternative route, they will pony up.

    I used to live in NW Indiana. I worked in downtown Chicago. I could take 94 all the way in, or I could take 41 up to the skyway, fork over $3.50 and knock out 20 min on my commute. In this case, I'm the opposite as I'd gladly fork it over if it benefits me in time. As they say, time is money.

    Now imagine if they put a toll on the Ford...

    A similar thing happened many years ago in SoCal. They opened a stretch from south of the 405, off the 5 if I recall that was a bypass. I don't remember where it went anymore but it too was a toll and barely a soul was on the thing.

    Adding a toll will only work if they do it everywhere.

    But...here's the thing. The infrastructure in most cities aren't setup for public transportation. And by that I mean rail. Yeah, in places like Chicago it exists, but compared to NY, London, Paris, Singapore...can't touch it. America is a driving nation. Everything was built on it, especially since the 50s.

    If you want to ease congestion, build better, longer lasting roads. Build better interchanges. Build secondary, smaller capacity systems for national traffic (ie completely bypassing major cities with only emergency access). Build better merges and double wide exchange ramps.

    There's so much that can be done. Simple tossing a charge it won't fix it.
     
  18. EagleKeeper

    EagleKeeper Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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    Not intended as being a criticism, but a friendly reminder
     
  19. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    40% of the federal highway tax revenue is siphoned off...

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/transportation/july-dec07/infrastructure_08-15.html

    No doubt something similar happens with the state funds as well...
     
  20. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Lifer

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    Bike paths and trails and lighthouses are infrastructure...
     
  21. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    This was after that bridge collapse, and everyone was all heated up about our crumbling roads and bridges...so I'd cut her some slack there.

    She was asked about roads and bridges.

    And my gas tax money shouldn't pay for that other stuff, anyway... :D
     
  22. Throckmorton

    Throckmorton Lifer

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    The only real solution is rail. You can move many more people more easily than highways, and without being slowed down by other traffic. Right now I use Houston's park & ride bus system, and it sucks because the bus gets stuck in traffic even on the HOV lane.
     
  23. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    Rail is almost always a money pit, iirc.
     
  24. EagleKeeper

    EagleKeeper Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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    Rail is very very expensive and only works on high concentrated point to point areas. People are not going to walk more that 3-4 blocks. You have to also have a feeder system from the rail as well as a feeder system into the rail. Auto parking and bus frequency need support to get people out of the car.

    Land is expensive; unless you have the right of way already.
     
    #49 EagleKeeper, Dec 3, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  25. Ferzerp

    Ferzerp Diamond Member

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    Mass transit doesn't work except for extremely population dense areas.

    The US is 176th in population density (out of 242 nations). The top 100 nations are between 3 and a number so high that it's meaningless more dense than the US.

    It works in your NYCs, etc. It doesn't work in your metropolitan areas with 60+ miles of sprawl that feed the jobs in that city.