How to deal with someone you previously respected not believing in evolution?

[Fingolfin269]

OP, who cares? Do you realize how many people on this forum think you're an idiot now for believing in a relgiion?

I find it better to just assume no one is perfect, everyone is probably wrong about something, and just worry about my own life. I suggest you do the same. You will live a better life.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

It's not that I don't "believe" in the old testament, I just view the old testament as stories based on Hebrew law, while the New Testament is more Jesus' history and a how to guide (and more literal, less story).

Though I don't mean to stand up for religion - many ignorant people embrace religion as a way to justify their insanity and dogma, and I don't fall into that camp.

"An eye for the eye" contradicts with Jesus' notion that you should turn the other cheek.

Also, jesus would hang out with whores, while they were stoned in the old testament. I'm not a theologian, I just find a lot of the hate we see in modern Christianity originates from both the old testament and the words of Saul/Paul, while Jesus was all about love and not judgement.

The logic is the mosaic law was used to prepare the Jewish people with the coming of the messiah and once he arrived they would receive a new covenant. While the mosaic law was a huged extensive list, Jesus only gave two principles for his followers to follow. Love your God, love your brother.

This is analogous to how a parent trains their kids by giving a whole set of rules when young to prepare them for adulthood while not necessarily having to explain them in full detail. Once the child finally does reach adulthood, he can make his own decisions based on what he's learned throughout his adolescence.

Clearly the religious fanatics out there are not following Jesus' 2nd rule.

 

[Arkitech]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bible+contradictions

I've seen many links like that one before, a list of supposed contradictions. But when you examine them a bit further those contradictions don't hold up well, I'll go through a couple of them to illustrate.

God good to all, or just a few?

PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

There's no contradiction here at all, everyone benefits from God in that they are able to enjoy life. We all enjoy food, music, sunshine, companionship, etc.. In the scripture at Jeremiah it's referring to God punishing a certain group of people based on their actions, it's not some random wrathful attack directed against innocent people.

War or Peace?

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

Again, there's no contradiction here either. God is a person and as such his personality has different facets just like any other individual. There are countless examples through-out all history where men and nations of peace will resort to war when the situation warrants doing so.


Most of these lists of bible contradictions can be easily sorted out just by simple reasoning and some others may require a bit of research. In my years of studying and reading the bible I've found it be a harmonious book, even when it comes to the old and new testament.

 

[Arkitech]

lol

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

I commented on that link in an earlier reply, most of the contradictions that seem to be there are in fact not inconsistencies. It just requires a little knowledge of the bible to understand the passage and it's meaning.

 

[meltdown75]

and...... now it's just a good old fashioned religion thread. sweet.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

and...... now it's just a good old fashioned religion thread. sweet.

eh? wasn't that obvious from the OP?

 

[child of wonder]

I've seen many links like that one before, a list of supposed contradictions. But when you examine them a bit further those contradictions don't hold up well, I'll go through a couple of them to illustrate.

Oh boy, this will be fun.

There's no contradiction here at all, everyone benefits from God in that they are able to enjoy life. We all enjoy food, music, sunshine, companionship, etc.. In the scripture at Jeremiah it's referring to God punishing a certain group of people based on their actions, it's not some random wrathful attack directed against innocent people.

In other words:

"God is a loving god! JUST DON'T PISS HIM OFF."

What about the attacks directed against an innocent Job? What a caring and loving god to allow the Devil to murder Job's family so that god could settle a wager.

Again, there's no contradiction here either. God is a person and as such his personality has different facets just like any other individual. There are countless examples through-out all history where men and nations of peace will resort to war when the situation warrants doing so.

God is a person? That's your retort?

Most of these lists of bible contradictions can be easily sorted out just by simple reasoning and some others may require a bit of research. In my years of studying and reading the bible I've found it be a harmonious book, even when it comes to the old and new testament.

:facepalm:

Let me guess... your "years of studying and reading the bible" really means "my years of going to church." Assuming you are capable of independent thought and critical thinking, one cannot view and read the bible objectively and not be taken back by the rampant contradictions, cruelty, and supernatural depotism contained therein.

 

[Arkitech]

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

I don't have time to go through all of these, but I'll try to get to the first few in your list.

(1) In the first instance I highlighted the important part of the scripture. The old law was accomplished when Jesus began his ministry. His arrival meant the old law was to be replaced with the new law he was to institute, which is why you don't read in the new testament about animal sacrifices after Jesus started his ministry. That's just a brief answer, I could add more detail later if you want it.

(2) This second instance is pretty much the same as the first, understanding the new law covenant is significant in being able to know why the old mosaic law covenant was done away with.

(3) This is also tied to the first two instances. A law covenant is nothing more than a contract, Jesus was the person to fulfill or complete that contract not break it. Which is why he does'nt abolish it, once he completed the old contract he began a new contract (or covenant).

Like I mentioned in another post, many bible contradictions seem to be that way because some people don't read the entire context of the verse or have a lack of knowledge in other areas of the bible. It's like trying to understand a complicated math equation by jumping into the middle of the formula instead of leading up to it step by step.

 

[meltdown75]

eh? wasn't that obvious from the OP?

it had potential to become an emormous backfire for the OP, with everyone ripping on him for judging someone based on their beliefs. now it's just the standard jibberish. so yeah, it has evolved from crappy to pathetic.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Havn't read anything but I htought I would add this:

Someone basing their beliefs on non-rational thought can not be convinced they are wrong through the use of rational thought.

Just ignore him when he is talking stupid and move on. Hell, how do you think I deal with belief systems like beliving in God and all that. I accept that people believe what they believe. The fact that they are wrong is not important and IO can not change that.

 

[Lifted]

How to deal with someone you previously respected not believing in evolution?

If you stopped respecting them why do you even care what they believe in?

 

[slackerinabox]

OP, who cares? Do you realize how many people on this forum think you're an idiot now for believing in a relgiion?

I find it better to just assume no one is perfect, everyone is probably wrong about something, and just worry about my own life. I suggest you do the same. You will live a better life.

Your right, I'm not debating that everyone needs to believe what I believe, just that I find it hard to respect the intelligence of someone who believes that the world was made in 7 days, just a few thousand years ago. To me that's like believing that the sun goes to sleep at night and wakes up in the morning - sure, they're entitled to their opinion, but their opinion is wrong.

Though I shouldn't judge either way, you're right.

 

[meltdown75]

does your SO know how you feel about this?

 

[slackerinabox]

does your SO know how you feel about this?

Yeap, she wanted (on her own) to email him because she worries his facebook status might hurt his career (he works for a hospital chain). I asked not to be involved in however she words that email.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I commented on that link in an earlier reply, most of the contradictions that seem to be there are in fact not inconsistencies. It just requires a little knowledge of the bible to understand the passage and it's meaning.

Christians keep the bible with the times by thinking really hard about problematic sections and suddenly "realizing" things about it that makes believing in it easier. This is done by Jesus, who inserts the proper meaning of each passage into the brain of the person using the method of Divine Inspiration. Divine Inspiration is different from whole cloth fabrication on the part of the searching Christian because it supports the Word of God and allows the Christian to reconcile the ancient bible text with the morality and situations of the current day. Therefore a Christian can be certain that they are not making shit up just to make themselves feel better because the truths that Jesus imparts on them makes them feel better.

 

[Arkitech]

Oh boy, this will be fun.



In other words:

"God is a loving god! JUST DON'T PISS HIM OFF."

Think about it, in the old testament the Israelites were God's favored people. He offered them the opportunity to enter into a covenant with him, which they accepted. What kind of God would he be if he just never defended his people from attacks by others?

What about the attacks directed against an innocent Job? What a caring and loving god to allow the Devil to murder Job's family so that god could settle a wager.
Basically the Devil said that no one would serve God out of love, God did'nt initiate any of the misfortune that befell Job. Satan did his best to make Job turn his back against God, but he failed. In turn everything that Satan tried to take away, God restored it back to Job twofold. The bottomline everyone suffers because of Satan and sin, some people suffer more than others.


God is a person? That's your retort?
So what's your problem with that answer? If man is created in the image of God, then it should'nt be any shock that God has the ability to be peaceful and war-like as the situation dictates. Are you always happy? always sad? always angry? The bible mentions many times that God has feelings and emotions, why should'nt they change based on certain situations and circumstances?





:facepalm:

Let me guess... your "years of studying and reading the bible" really means "my years of going to church." Assuming you are capable of independent thought and critical thinking, one cannot view and read the bible objectively and not be taken back by the rampant contradictions, cruelty, and supernatural depotism contained therein.
Wow, nothing I say will make a difference will it? I've read the bible enough to reach a rational and intelligent conclusion on who God is as a person and why he does certain things, which is really the point of the bible in first place. I'm not knocking you, but a lot of people make judgements about the bible without a solid basis. How can you accurately assess something if you don't take time to examine it? If all you do is take the opinion of a critic about a particular subject then you're making your rationalizations based on a biased viewpoint. You can't really know the truth about said subject until you've completed a balanced analysis. For the record I've been on both sides of the fence, I've had my doubts and objections. But based on my personal investigation I can take a stance with confidence. I know people on this board are gonna slam me and make jokes, but it does'nt bother me because I've taken the time to examine the subject matter and I feel that I've found logical, satisfying answers about the bible.

Read the bold

 

[eits]

who cares what he believes. if you respected him before you knew about his silly beliefs, you can still respect him afterwards. just remind yourselves that people believe in silly things sometimes and it doesn't change who they are as a person.

 

[OverVolt]

Respect him for working hard I guess.

 

[Arkitech]

Christians keep the bible with the times by thinking really hard about problematic sections and suddenly "realizing" things about it that makes believing in it easier. This is done by Jesus, who inserts the proper meaning of each passage into the brain of the person using the method of Divine Inspiration. Divine Inspiration is different from whole cloth fabrication on the part of the searching Christian because it supports the Word of God and allows the Christian to reconcile the ancient bible text with the morality and situations of the current day. Therefore a Christian can be certain that they are not making shit up just to make themselves feel better because the truths that Jesus imparts on them makes them feel better.

The major problem with discussing the bible with someone who's skeptical or critical of it is this. Every politician, greedy televangelist and nutcase who's ever quoted the bible and twisted it to fit their own agenda gets lumped in with ones who simply try to take the bible for what it means. So I find in conversations like these I have to find a way to separate myself from the people who use the bible to bash other person's beliefs or advance whatever schemes they may have in mind. Once I'm able to differentiate myself from those groups of people, then I can speak without being lumped into the wrong category. Now with that said, in response to your statement never listen to anyone who makes up things that can't be found or verified in the bible. If a person is inventing statements to defend the bible they either have'nt read it much or have an underlying agenda.

 

[surfsatwerk]

who cares what he believes. if you respected him before you knew about his silly beliefs, you can still respect him afterwards. just remind yourselves that people believe in silly things sometimes and it doesn't change who they are as a person.

But it does. How would you feel if someone you've known for years started chattering on about the oncoming race wars. With a straight face they tell you in great detail about their belief blacks, whites, Latinos, and Eskimos are going to be pitted against each other in a struggle for survival.

Because for someone with a medical education to deny the existence of evolution is pretty comparable to the situation I just described.

 

[Arkitech]

But it does. How would you feel if someone you've known for years started chattering on about the oncoming race wars. With a straight face they tell you in great detail about their belief blacks, whites, Latinos, and Eskimos are going to be pitted against each other in a struggle for survival.

Because for someone with a medical education to deny the existence of evolution is pretty comparable to the situation I just described.

How is that comparable? In one situation you described a hateful person who clearly lacks compassion for a large segment of the world's population and in the other you have a person who has a different opinion on the origin of life.

 

[eits]

But it does. How would you feel if someone you've known for years started chattering on about the oncoming race wars. With a straight face they tell you in great detail about their belief blacks, whites, Latinos, and Eskimos are going to be pitted against each other in a struggle for survival.

Because for someone with a medical education to deny the existence of evolution is pretty comparable to the situation I just described.

someone's belief about evolution is WAAAAY different than someone's belief about a race war or racism.

 

[surfsatwerk]

How is that comparable? In one situation you described a hateful person who clearly lacks compassion for a large segment of the world's population and in the other you have a person who has a different opinion on the origin of life.

An opinion based on nonsense informs the person in question with both examples.

In the OP's case you have a person denying his experience and education in favor of religion. In my example you have a person denying the humanity of other people in favor of his racist beliefs. Both cases have a person abandoning personal experience and reason in favor of an irrational belief system.

 

[surfsatwerk]

someone's belief about evolution is WAAAAY different than someone's belief about a race war or racism.

I see the two as being different shades of gray.