How to communicate with mid-westerners as a blue state Yankee?

[vi edit]

Dude, Omaha has like 10 restaurants on each block - and they're mostly awful. I never know if it's the local tastes or that they just eat what they can get.

White people aren't raised to like spices. No Mom, salt and pepper aren't spice. You have to understand that most of us came from Irish, English, and German immigrant families. Those aren't cultures exactly known for interesting, flavorful dishes. So we ate what our Mom's cooked us, which is what their mom's cooked, and so on. Spices, let alone *spicy* foods are not common. Most peoples pallets were never introduced to it, and it's only as some of us Gen X'ers and younger start to get out and about a bit more that we realize there is more to food than crock pot meat, potatoes, steamed carrots, and gravy "spiced up" with salt, a dash of black pepper and ketchup.

 

[NetWareHead]

White people aren't raised to like spices. No Mom, salt and pepper aren't spice. You have to understand that most of us came from Irish, English, and German immigrant families. Those aren't cultures exactly known for interesting, flavorful dishes. So we ate what our Mom's cooked us, which is what their mom's cooked, and so on. Spices, let alone *spicy* foods are not common. Most peoples pallets were never introduced to it, and it's only as some of us Gen X'ers and younger start to get out and about a bit more that we realize there is more to food than crock pot meat, potatoes, steamed carrots, and gravy "spiced up" with salt, a dash of black pepper and ketchup.

D:

 

[NikolaeVarius]

White people aren't raised to like spices. No Mom, salt and pepper aren't spice. You have to understand that most of us came from Irish, English, and German immigrant families. Those aren't cultures exactly known for interesting, flavorful dishes. So we ate what our Mom's cooked us, which is what their mom's cooked, and so on. Spices, let alone *spicy* foods are not common. Most peoples pallets were never introduced to it, and it's only as some of us Gen X'ers and younger start to get out and about a bit more that we realize there is more to food than crock pot meat, potatoes, steamed carrots, and gravy "spiced up" with salt, a dash of black pepper and ketchup.

The number of people who think that Taco Bell fire sauce is actually spicy is mind boggling to me. It tastes like straight vinegar.

 

[slackerinabox]

White people aren't raised to like spices. No Mom, salt and pepper aren't spice. You have to understand that most of us came from Irish, English, and German immigrant families. Those aren't cultures exactly known for interesting, flavorful dishes. So we ate what our Mom's cooked us, which is what their mom's cooked, and so on. Spices, let alone *spicy* foods are not common. Most peoples pallets were never introduced to it, and it's only as some of us Gen X'ers and younger start to get out and about a bit more that we realize there is more to food than crock pot meat, potatoes, steamed carrots, and gravy "spiced up" with salt, a dash of black pepper and ketchup.

Oh, I know - living with my wife gives me a phd in white people 🙂 she loves the crockpot and I view it as a flavor sucking device that somehow makes succulent beef bland, and takes 8 hours to do it! But I've learned to appreciate the techniques only because lots of it is pretty economical and easy for a family of 4. I mean, do I bother with the intricacies of my motherland's cuisine and slave over a lamb curry, or do I just throw a "bland" chicken in the oven and nuke a potato? 9 times out of 10 it's Americana at our house. So I get it, what I don't understand is the unwillingness to try new stuff. It's what depreSses me about Omaha - not many people want to exit their comfort Zone so no one grows, no one changes. I meAn, if someone else is making it try some pad Thai! Not that ribs and fried chicken aren't awesome too. And I can't understand why no one can make a good slice there, but props to Chicago- it's more quiche than pizza, but I won't turn down a slice

 

[vi edit]

It takes 10-15 times to readjust your pallet. If you tried something once and didn't like it, it takes several attempts to continuously reprogram your tastes to accept it. When you are paying $10+ a meal for something you didn't like the first time, it's not that easy to demand somebody go back and keep on trying.

If you hadn't been exposed to it as a kid (which most of us who grew up in the Midwest never were through generations of "Mom cooking") you have to do that as adult. To do that as an adult you have to (a find a place to do it, or somebody to cook it for you and b) keep on trying it until you like it.

It's not easy. What is easy is falling back on what you know and sticking to that.

I never went to a "Chinese" restaurant until I was 23. My parents never went there. Didn't have a bowl of Pad Thai until I was 27. I was almost 30 before I had an Indian dish. My parents *never* had that type of food, never introduced it to us. Never even considered it.

I've got a 7 and 3 year old. I *TRY* to get them to eat different things. Anything with a sauce is a no. Italian. Cajun. Indian. Chinese. Whatever. It's a flat out refusal to try. But I keep trying and trying and trying because I don't want them to be in the same situation that I was growing up. There are so many other yummy food types out there to enjoy that I never had a chance to try until I was an adult. I don't want that to be because of my choice to never introduce them.

 

[Muse]

Hah, I accept that we're more guarded. Here's the thing - I think midwesterners are too trusting - "stranger danger" isn't a thing there, everyone's so friendly so why not just jump into that stranger's car! We instead assume the worst and are more guarded because of it. It's probably a reason we live longer. To us new yorkers, the world isn't a nice place and you need to give us a reason to trust ya. I prefer it that way, but I see how that can come off as rude.

OK, you have to accept the fact that the people you're dealing with don't have that stranger danger filter built in as you and other NYers do. That doesn't mean you have to pretend to not have that filter, but you have to suspend it on some level in dealing with midwesterners. You're in a different domain there.

So how would a person of color deal with that? I'm very NY so I don't come off as indian, they just assume I'm black and there's def. a "what is he doing in this country club?" energy that I just hate... It puts me in a bad mood to begin with, then I cling onto my controversial liberal values because I feel dehumanized.

I don't think that everyone in the midwest is racist, but you're right in that I don't think they're exposed to differences in culture, values, and skin tone so they get awkward around me, and I pick up on that and sometimes take it to an adversarial place, as a defense mechanism

Put yourself in their shoes. The problem is largely theirs, it's on them to see the real you and they have difficulty seeing beyond your skin color. There you are looking at white people, and you're used to doing that, so it's not hard for you. Some of them are aware of their problem, they will be dealing with it as they relate to you. It's a jumble, there will be chaos, accept chaos! After you get back to NYC it will be as a dream, it's only natural. Hey, you're a New Yorker, you're supposed to have a thick skin right (easy to say)? There must be some movies about this...!

 

[nakedfrog]

Oh, I know - living with my wife gives me a phd in white people 🙂 she loves the crockpot and I view it as a flavor sucking device that somehow makes succulent beef bland, and takes 8 hours to do it! But I've learned to appreciate the techniques only because lots of it is pretty economical and easy for a family of 4. I mean, do I bother with the intricacies of my motherland's cuisine and slave over a lamb curry, or do I just throw a "bland" chicken in the oven and nuke a potato? 9 times out of 10 it's Americana at our house. So I get it, what I don't understand is the unwillingness to try new stuff. It's what depreSses me about Omaha - not many people want to exit their comfort Zone so no one grows, no one changes. I meAn, if someone else is making it try some pad Thai! Not that ribs and fried chicken aren't awesome too. And I can't understand why no one can make a good slice there, but props to Chicago- it's more quiche than pizza, but I won't turn down a slice

You could try Frank's Pizzeria in West Omaha, it was recommended to me by a former New Yorker. I like Don Carmelo's a lot too. I love the Roman Coin's meat pizza--it's not NY style but it's delicious.
There are two acoustic jam sessions on Wednesday nights, one in West Omaha and one in Papillion, I play at the latter most Wednesdays. They're both free, take place at wine bars that also have beer, pretty informal things where musicians just show up and play songs. I can give more specifics if you think that'd be your thing.
You can hit up The Reader's calendar for other activities.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

It takes 10-15 times to readjust your pallet. If you tried something once and didn't like it, it takes several attempts to continuously reprogram your tastes to accept it. When you are paying $10+ a meal for something you didn't like the first time, it's not that easy to demand somebody go back and keep on trying.

A good analogue is beverages. NO ONE likes coffee the first time they drink it; not real coffee anyway. They load it up with cream and sugar and crushed ice and make a "coffee" milkshake in the form of a Frappuccino, but they can't drink the black stuff until their palate has adjusted. Or beer. NO ONE likes their first sip of beer. Now, generally that's because it's Miller High Life or some other such swill and your body isn't interested in debasing itself to that degree, but eventually you can grow to enjoy those flavors (you think IPA lovers were born thinking "I'd really like to drink something that tastes like a wet pinecone"?). How about whiskey? NO ONE takes their first shot of Jack Daniel's and thinks "that's like liquid candy!" Or Scotch? You think everyone drinking Laphroaig grew up sucking iodine through a band-aid? All that stuff is an acquired taste. Food is no different. I hated sushi the first few times I tried it, and now it's one of my favorite foods. The more you're exposed to something, the more accustomed to it you get, until eventually you start to like it.

 

[BoberFett]

Honestly, if that's your opinion of Midwest people then you pretty much deserve what you are getting.

I grew up in and still live in a shit hole Midwest city. I dated an Indian girl for 2.5 years and never had a problem out in public. I have a gay brother. He never had any violence visited upon him. I'm sure NYC has no racists or bigots though. Everyone simply gets along and is allowed to be whatever they want. That's why you NEVER hear of any hate crimes in the greater NYC area.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the OP is more of a bigot than of the people he fears.

 

[BoberFett]

Thanks for this post. I can't believe it but I'm reading Buddhist text right now on the power of silence, because I honestly don't want to make a scene and will have to train myself to shut up.

Wise words, tact is something I need to learn. There's a weird feeling being the only X in the room (only woman, only brown person not washing the dishes in the back, or the only LGBT person) -it already puts me on edge because I'm shocked that all these people don't know a single brother, but my response has been to come out swinging, and it's not a mature one..

If you feel weird being the only X in the room, the problem is you, not the other people in the room.

Give me a fucking break. "I'm reading Buddhist text right now on the power of silence, because I honestly don't want to make a scene and will have to train myself to shut up."

You sound like an asshole who's not much fun to be around. If they don't like you, it might not have anything to do with your skin color. It might be because you're a pretentious prick that they wouldn't like even if you were white. Hell, I know I wouldn't like some white hipster douchebag who "read Buddhist texts" to learn about basic human interaction.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Put yourself in their shoes. The problem is largely theirs, it's on them to see the real you and they have difficulty seeing beyond your skin color. There you are looking at white people, and you're used to doing that, so it's not hard for you. Some of them are aware of their problem, they will be dealing with is as they relate to you. It's a jumble, there will be chaos, accept chaos! After you get back to NYC it will be as a dream, it's only natural. Hey, you're a New Yorker, you're supposed to have a thick skin right (easy to say)? There must be some movies about this...!

Just being around them and engaging them in conversation will help there. You have to think about how they view you. At some point you want to make the transition in their minds from "Some New York Indian" to "insert your name here". Once you've done that you've won.

The best way I can think of is to attempt to make yourself in to a pleasant presence to them. Engage them in conversations that reveal you to be a real person who has thoughts and interests, but that you carefully direct away from topics that you know could turn adversarial. You already probably know most of the areas you disagree with them on. Stay away from those topics or at least don't shoot them down immediately when they are brought up.

I would try to leave them with the sense that you aren't some strange "other" who is now a part of their lives, but rather someone who they can relate to in at least some ways. Complement them on their homes and lives whenever you can. If it's a beautiful day outside, say so. Anything positive about them or their area is good fodder for conversation and leaves them with the impression that you like some of the same things they do, that in some respect they can understand you.

Be ready with a good excuse whenever they start encouraging you to move to their part of the world though, as complementing them on their homes and neighborhood will open that as a potential avenue of conversation. They don't do that because they want to see more of you. It's her they'll be trying to bring back into the fold if they can.

 

[slackerinabox]

You could try Frank's Pizzeria in West Omaha, it was recommended to me by a former New Yorker. I like Don Carmelo's a lot too. I love the Roman Coin's meat pizza--it's not NY style but it's delicious.
There are two acoustic jam sessions on Wednesday nights, one in West Omaha and one in Papillion, I play at the latter most Wednesdays. They're both free, take place at wine bars that also have beer, pretty informal things where musicians just show up and play songs. I can give more specifics if you think that'd be your thing.
You can hit up The Reader's calendar for other activities.

Awesome, everyone raves about Godfather's pizza, but it's sub papa johns to me (and I'm not really a pizza snob, I survived on 99 cent slices in college). What's your number one top pick?

You know, I'll be there from next Tuesday, I have no idea what the schedule is like but pm me the details - trust me, I'm sure I could use a break if there's not a dinner or something

 

[slackerinabox]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the OP is more of a bigot than of the people he fears.

Nearly every person I know is white, my children are half white and I applaud them knowing more about their culture (more corn beef for me!), and seinfeld's my favorite show. I love white people and always have loved white culture (I grew up listening to the Cure and the beastie boys, not some cackling indian dude), and New York jews are pretty much my favorite people in the world (I've had liberal jewish girlfriends and their families were always so warm and welcoming). I am not a bigot and resent being called one, because I'm upset that someone said a joke about towelheads during christmas dinner. I may be an asshole, I may be classist about "rednecks" (I never use the term but dislike aspects of the culture), but I'm not a bigot.

 

[ControlD]

I am not a bigot and resent being called one, because I'm upset that someone said a joke about towelheads during christmas dinner.

You have every right to be upset about that. To equate such behavior so Midwestern people in general and to need help communicating with them (us) is just bullshit. You communicate with those family members the same way you would a dipshit New Yorker that says the same thing.

 

[slackerinabox]

You have every right to be upset about that. To equate such behavior so Midwestern people in general and to need help communicating with them (us) is just bullshit.

You're absolutely right, I think my earlier qualifier of "christian midwesterners" signified that I didn't feel that way about everyone there, and genuinely enjoy their hipster scene in downtown omaha, there are pockets of cool/inclusion there if you know where to look. The rest of it really isn't for me, I see a lot of sad house wives and eating of emotions (plus suspect lots of over medication), and it strikes me as sad.. But I admit to only seeing a small portion of what you guys have to offer, and my problem is specific to a group not a people.\

And I think I am unfairly putting everyone at those events in the same basket, but the theory assholes know assholes applies. I mean, I can't stand the groom - a midget, over compensating psuedo-manly biker type, who puts up a big talk- but I could literally step on him. I can't imagine his friends and family being very enlightened. But it's up to me to not assume and paint with broad strokes, you're right.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I think OP just needs to accept that wherever you go in this world, there is more good then bad people.

But the bad people stand out more....and stick in our brains longer.....

Remember, there is TONS of good.

 

[Perknose]

OP, you know going in that you have vast differences of opinion with many folks there on some key, hot button issues.

DON'T ENGAGE.

You can't control how other people act, but you can control how you respond. You are doing yourself and your views no good by arguing with people you already know will not be persuaded by what you say. There is NOTHING in it for you or your views by mixing it up.

I vividly remember, as a long-haired, big bearded college student, going to a cousin's wedding. Irish Catholic, you know? At the reception, I was collared by an older cousin who had been a Marine fighter pilot and was then in the CIA (though I didn't know this at the time.)

Despite his knowing something of my own history, my appearance and the fact that I was going to the Kremlin on the Crum made me a target of opportunity for his socio-political anger. I experienced hideously contorted facial expressions and loud rhetoric from, literally, two feet away, which FELT LIKE 3 inches away. The dude was in my face. There was unintentional spittle spray. But I was not there to make me or, even more important, my family, look bad.

So I took the challenge, and repeatedly, patiently sought what common ground I could. And, Big Apple Boy-O, there is almost always some common ground to be found.

It was a draining, wearying experience, I won't lie. But in the end, my cousin said to me, "Your views have really changed from the last time we talked."

WE HAD NEVER TALKED FACE TO FACE BEFORE, ON ANY TOPIC, EVER.

All I'm saying is that the experience you have is up to you. Meet that challenge, and GROW UP a bit in the process.

 

[slackerinabox]

OP, you know going in that you have vast differences of opinion with many folks there on some key, hot button issues.

DON'T ENGAGE.

You can't control how other people act, but you can control how you respond. You are doing yourself and your views no good by arguing with people you already know will not be persuaded by what you say. There is NOTHING in it for you or your views by mixing it up.

I vividly remember, as a long-haired, big bearded college student, going to a cousin's wedding. Irish Catholic, you know? At the reception, I was collared by an older cousin who had been a Marine fighter pilot and was then in the CIA (though I didn't know this at the time.)

Despite his knowing something of my own history, my appearance and the fact that I was going to the Kremlin on the Crum made me a target of opportunity for his socio-political anger. I experienced hideously contorted facial expressions and loud rhetoric from, literally, two feet away, which FELT LIKE 3 inches away. The dude was in my face. There was unintentional spittle spray. But I was not there to make me or, even more important, my family, look bad.

So I took the challenge, and repeatedly, patiently sought what common ground I could. And, Big Apple Boy-O, there is almost always some common ground to be found.

It was a draining, wearying experience, I won't lie. But in the end, my cousin said to me, "Your views have really changed from the last time we talked."

WE HAD NEVER TALKED FACE TO FACE BEFORE, ON ANY TOPIC, EVER.

All I'm saying is that the experience you have is up to you. Meet that challenge, and GROW UP a bit in the process.

Wow, sucks that you had to go through that. You know, some people (ok, 2) do the same thing to me - B line straight to me and poke, "what do you think about that [hot button issue we don't agree on]," as if to get a reaction. The last time that happened I quietly excused myself, but even that was viewed as dramatic..

Your approach sounds wise

 

[Perknose]

Wow, sucks that you had to go through that. You know, some people (ok, 2) do the same thing to me - B line straight to me and poke, "what do you think about that [hot button issue we don't agree on]," as if to get a reaction. The last time that happened I quietly excused myself, but even that was viewed as dramatic..

Your approach sounds wise

So . . . you know how that's going to go down. Again, take it as a challenge. Discipline! That energy that rises in your throat? Channel it into crafting the most anodyne and broadly inclusive response you can.

This is exactly how I survived as a PI at 2am in the worst neighborhoods who refused to be armed. Discipline! Never forsaking situational awareness, I treated everyone I came across with deep, calm respect. It's what most people primarily want anyway.

Here on the net we can attack each other with ZERO real world consequences. In the glorious 3D reality of the flesh and bones and metal day to day, that's an endlessly LOSER approach.

If you are truly at peace with the rightness of your personal views, you never need their validation from strangers.

Those that come at you the hardest are precisely those you should never engage head on -- be they culture warrior cousins, power tripping cops, or squirrely ghetto heads. You have nothing to prove to any of them, and everything to lose.

Be like a true Sufi! Don't engage their anger with your own. Remain calm, remain focused, but gently slide to the side. Gentle (NOT sarcastic) humor always helps.

If you don't stupidly square up and present a target, you can't be attacked!

I'ma shut up now. 😉

 

[nakedfrog]

Awesome, everyone raves about Godfather's pizza, but it's sub papa johns to me (and I'm not really a pizza snob, I survived on 99 cent slices in college). What's your number one top pick?

You know, I'll be there from next Tuesday, I have no idea what the schedule is like but pm me the details - trust me, I'm sure I could use a break if there's not a dinner or something

Godfathers? LOL
For me, it's Don Carmelo's for plain pepperoni or Roman Coin if I want a pizza just madly strewn with various kinds of meat.
You could tour the Lucky Bucket brewery/distillery, and there's a meadery in Bellevue that I've been meaning to check out. Legends Comics & Coffee is a pretty sweet place, if that's your kind of thing.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah, Godfathers is to Pizza what Arby's is to Fast Food.

It's a more expensive, sorta better quality than the alternatives. Oh...it's also HQ'd in Omaha for franchising.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Wow, sucks that you had to go through that. You know, some people (ok, 2) do the same thing to me - B line straight to me and poke, "what do you think about that [hot button issue we don't agree on]," as if to get a reaction. The last time that happened I quietly excused myself, but even that was viewed as dramatic..

Your approach sounds wise

When you give someone a "button" or power to piss you off......they will use it.

Key is to NOT enable them to have that button.

The issue is you (and them too, but you can't control aholes, so just focus on yourself).

Smile/have fun and go in with the "no matter what happens I'm going to have a good time" attitude, then make it happen.

😉

 

[touchstone]

OP while i sympathize with your situation as i have relatives in columbus who are very similar to what you describe and I am also not totally white and therefore subject to suspicion, but i do not understand how you have gotten yourself into all these arguments. the stuff you describe is stuff i would only argue with my nuclear family about... certainly nothing to be argued against inlaws. just chill out and be quiet, and like perknose said you need to find common ground with them on something, anything


and dont drink, you obviously like to argue and don't like midwesterners so dont get trashed when you are surrounded by them!

 

[Linflas]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the OP is more of a bigot than of the people he fears.

Judging from this thread he is not alone but bigotry against folks of European descent is totally acceptable on this forum.

 

[KlokWyze]

LOL. He's going to Omaha. That's a city popularized by the sheer volume of restaurants there. Seriously, you can't go a block without bumping into some sort of restaurant or bar. It's a town that eats out...A LOT.

It's not much different in other midwest cities....Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, Peoria, ect. It's a waiting list at most decent places on any night of the week. People are eating out a lot.

Even in very small rural areas, go to the local watering hole on a Friday night and it will be packed. Google map Liverpool, IL. That place is only found by people that really want to be there. There's a bar on the river that is packed on Friday nights for catfish dinners. There's thousands of hole in the wall places like that in small communities that people go to. In most of these communities though, it's less about the food and more about socializing and catching up on local gossip. Plus in these areas incomes are not very high, so eating out is a luxury and not an item of convenience. Eating out is more of an "event" than just something you do because you are too busy/lazy to cook.

Oh god you mention Peoria. That place sucks.

Your point makes sense. They need to get out of their house to talk about corn yields and the latest episode of Duck Dynasty over a ham and cheese omelette from Waffle House. That's called livin'. :biggrin: