How to Combat High Gas Prices

[Imp]

I wouldn't call it hideous. The Aztek was hideous.

They're just quirky. I used to think they looked weird too. I think it's just the wheel skirts. There's something off about that area of the back end.

Overall though, the car is actually quite sleek and sporty looking.

The newer Insights don't deserve the Insight badge. They're an insult to the 1st generation.

I'd blame 90% the wheel skirt, and the other 10% on the skirt around the entire back. Wheel skirt just makes it look like a '60s or '70s car minus the boat size.

 

[Silex]

Good luck waiting for the engine to die.

I kinda don't want it to since an LHP engine swap for a K20 starts at $20K Perhaps a mild turbo system would be a good idea since it will not only increase power, but mileage as well due to the forced induction.
http://www.lhtperformance.net/Turbo/Turbo_Samples/Insight.htm
http://lhtperformance.net/Turbo/Turbo_Samples/2000InsightTurbo.html

For starters the Insight doesn't peak at 70 mpg .... .those are easily obtainable tank averages. If you want to talk about peaks the numbers are more like 100mpg+. For the record I get roughly 60mpg in the winter over the whole tank and 80mpg in the summer. Again for the whole tank. So fuel usage is easily less than half of most econo boxes. That includes city and highway driving. His math is right, I checked it @$3.50 / gallon, if anything he will save more with higher gas prices and if he can get his mpg numbers closer to mine.

Grats to the OP and welcome to the club.

Be sure to check out InsightCentral.net if you haven't yet. Great resources to keep that car running in tip top shape.

Thanks! I'm on that forum quite often actually. What mods have you done to obtain those mileage numbers?

My car has been paid off for over a year now, so it's all money in my pocket at this point. I love spending so little on gas. It's not an astronomical savings, but it's nice knowing that I could probably go look around on the ground outside and find enough change to get me to where I need to go if I had to.

Where did you get your MIMA w/ FAS module? Nobody makes them anymore and me want!

 

[Doppel]

I wouldn't call it hideous. The Aztek was hideous.

They're just quirky. I used to think they looked weird too. I think it's just the wheel skirts. There's something off about that area of the back end.

Overall though, the car is actually quite sleek and sporty looking.

The newer Insights don't deserve the Insight badge. They're an insult to the 1st generation.

More or less agree. They are goofy but I think one could make an argument quite easily that the Aztek is on a visceral level something the majority of people will find actually displeasing, like an ugly person. It need not be something one can point at and say that's why it's ugly, but it's there. It's nasty. Poor design. The insight is just strange because it is the size of a go cart and has skirts (which kind of look bad), but otherwise it's not so bad.

heel skirt just makes it look like a '60s or '70s

True, unfortunately.

 

[Eli]

I kinda don't want it to since an LHP engine swap for a K20 starts at $20K Perhaps a mild turbo system would be a good idea since it will not only increase power, but mileage as well due to the forced induction.
http://www.lhtperformance.net/Turbo/Turbo_Samples/Insight.htm
http://lhtperformance.net/Turbo/Turbo_Samples/2000InsightTurbo.html


Where did you get your MIMA w/ FAS module? Nobody makes them anymore and me want!

Don't worry, it won't die unless you do something silly like run it dry. My car with 150k pulls just as strong as the day I bought it at 86k, and then of course there is the 442k mile beast. Haven't owned it very long yet, but that has to count for something.

Adding a turbo has the potential to not affect or even increase mileage, but.. Come on, do you know how hard it would be to stay out of boost? The Insight with 150HP and 220ftlbs of torque(at the wheels) would be one hell of a fun car. That's with 12PSI, IIRC.

I was lucky enough to get one of the last four MIMA Plug and Play systems. I was hoping to get one in the summer of 2010, but that didn't happen. Suddenly in January 2011 it clicked that there may not be many left, and I about shit myself when I checked and saw there were only 4 systems remaining. I was about ready to fly out to CT and hand the money to Mike in person, just to ensure that I got one.

Fortunately, there is another MIMA on the horizon. Knowing how these things work, it will probably be 2012 until anything is released, but it's something to look forward to. It should be cheaper and more simple than the original system, too. Mike has to get the grid chargers out before he can even think about more MIMA.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Thanks! I'm on that forum quite often actually. What mods have you done to obtain those mileage numbers?

Mima, Grid Charger, and 2X stock battery capacity. Though for highway cruising those mods do little. The mods are more suited to stop and go and boosting mileage on shorter drives. Essentially a short range plugin good for 20 - 40 miles of boosted mpgs.

This summer I'm going to do a lite boost turbo (5psi). I'm trading time and a plugin charger for all the fabricated components, so hopefully I won't be into it for much more than $700. Should raise the base hp by about 30 hp without much of an mpg hit. The guy who is making the kits gets 60 mpg and he drives fairly aggressively.

 

[Eli]

Mark,

I saw in one of your posts about the parallel pack that you were thinking about swapping the engine from the parts car into your car. Did that ever happen?

What made you think that your engine was worn out? Has that been since proven false?

My car is noticeably more powerful than the two other Insights I've driven to date, so I think my engine is in pretty good shape. This summer, I want to do a compression check on Insight #1 and #2, and on a friend's down in Albuquerque. It will be interesting.

Makes me think that my car would be a good candidate for a mild turbo though.

 

[SSSnail]

that a bus pass or something?

Nah, it's a limo card.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Mark,

I saw in one of your posts about the parallel pack that you were thinking about swapping the engine from the parts car into your car. Did that ever happen?

That battery went into a friends car that he had just purchased, I just mirrored the setup I did 3 years ago.

What made you think that your engine was worn out? Has that been since proven false?

My car is noticeably more powerful than the two other Insights I've driven to date, so I think my engine is in pretty good shape. This summer, I want to do a compression check on Insight #1 and #2, and on a friend's down in Albuquerque. It will be interesting.

Makes me think that my car would be a good candidate for a mild turbo though.

I thought it was worn out because side by side with my friends car mine was very sluggish off the start and I had issues maintaining lean burn in 5th at 45 - 55 mph. It turned out to be the tps mod which I have since removed. Problem resolved. Didn't see the problem until I had another car to compare to.

 

[SickBeast]

With these hybrids, can you opt to run them in "normal mode" once the batteries die out completely? I'm thinking that they will get very good fuel economy even without the electric assist, particularly on the highway.

 

[Eli]

That battery went into a friends car that he had just purchased, I just mirrored the setup I did 3 years ago.



I thought it was worn out because side by side with my friends car mine was very sluggish off the start and I had issues maintaining lean burn in 5th at 45 - 55 mph. It turned out to be the tps mod which I have since removed. Problem resolved. Didn't see the problem until I had another car to compare to.

Yeah, I was just talking about the engine.

Ahh. Interesting. So was it the TPS mod itself that was doing this, or were the values of the components wrong? Or has the mod been ruled bunk? I thought it was supposed to help people with twitchy feet maintain lean burn.

None of the cars I'm familiar with have the TPS mod, but the 442k mile car and my friend's car down in Albuquerque is, as you describe, sluggish off the line. Compared to my car at least. Ah well, will keep investigating..

I'd like to get a bunch of people to perform compression tests, just so we can get an idea of what is normal. I wanted to do a compression test when I bought my car 3 years ago, and I wish I would have so I would have something to compare a new reading to.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Yeah, I was just talking about the engine.

Ahh. Interesting. So was it the TPS mod itself that was doing this, or were the values of the components wrong? Or has the mod been ruled bunk? I thought it was supposed to help people with twitchy feet maintain lean burn.

At the expense of throttle response and for some reason it was affecting lean burn in 5th and I ended up compensating with mima which would drain the batteries faster. The components were exactly as recommended in the original article. I'm practiced enough now I can maintain lean burn pretty easily without it. In all I would bypass the tps mod or uses a switch to turn it on / off as needed.

 

[Uhtrinity]

With these hybrids, can you opt to run them in "normal mode" once the batteries die out completely? I'm thinking that they will get very good fuel economy even without the electric assist, particularly on the highway.

No on the Prius and as far as I know the other Toyotas, Yes on the Honda Insight (gen 1) and I think yes on the newer Hondas. In the Honda you take a major performance hit as the main function of the IMA motor is to assist the weak 3 cylinder gas engine. Once you are upto speed then the 3 cylinder is fine.

As far as batteries, they rarely just die, most develop balance issues due to having such long chains in series. In the case of the Insight it is 120 1.2 volt cells. Some of us use grid chargers to avoid balance issues which also extends battery life considerably. My 2 packs are 11 and 7 years old each and run fine. For those with experience the packs can be broken down and rebuilt with good subpacks.

 

[Eli]

^^ What he said.

Your packs are much closer in age than mine will be. It will be interesting to see how they'll behave at 10 and 1 years old.

Especially interesting will be to see the current split between them if I can get the 2nd BCM and BCM Gauge working. These cars are just so fun; so many gadgets and doodads.

Have you done the power boost mod yet? I think that will be fun and will lend itself well to two packs. I think I'll just go for 12kW max(+20&#37. That remains to be seen, I guess.. Sounds good though.

 

[Uhtrinity]

^^ What he said.

Your packs are much closer in age than mine will be. It will be interesting to see how they'll behave at 10 and 1 years old.

Especially interesting will be to see the current split between them if I can get the 2nd BCM and BCM Gauge working. These cars are just so fun; so many gadgets and doodads.

Have you done the power boost mod yet? I think that will be fun and will lend itself well to two packs. I think I'll just go for 12kW max(+20%). That remains to be seen, I guess.. Sounds good though.

I plan on doing that this summer, it will be a quick mod. I want to shoot for 15KW from the stock 10KW.

 

[exar333]

I use the 'Eco mode' on my Z quite often. This involves me either walking or biking to my destinations. :biggrin:

 

[Silex]

Which grid charger do you guys recommend getting? I have done zero mods, but I really want to get a move on! Is there a way to modify the IMA so that that it can run off pure EV mode at a flip of the switch? That would be cool for short jaunts.

 

[bryanW1995]

You bought two performance cars and are afraid to drive them?!?

Ha, it's funny that you say that. Less than a year after getting my M5, I got a job at a new dealership and got a company demo car. I only drove the M5 a couple of days a week for most of the time after that. Sometimes I would literally go months without driving it. What was my demo? Typically an impala, trailblazer, stuff like that. Not only did they suck, but their fuel economy wasn't any better and was often much worse. After many years of negotiation with the boss, I finally got a very nice tahoe with leather/roof/xm/etc. Literally, the day that I got the tahoe our f***ing service manager told the owner he wanted a corvette because "Bryan got what HE wanted". No more demos. Oh well, at least I was able to go back to driving a great car every day, he was stuck with his ratty 10 year old malibu for 30 miles each way to/from work!

 

[Eli]

Which grid charger do you guys recommend getting? I have done zero mods, but I really want to get a move on! Is there a way to modify the IMA so that that it can run off pure EV mode at a flip of the switch? That would be cool for short jaunts.

No. The IMA rotor is bolted to the crankshaft. The most you can hope for is PHEV.

There are no commercially available grid chargers on the market yet, you would have to build your own. It looks like Mike's grid chargers will be available this spring if you want to wait.

 

[simonizor]

The only thing I'm bitter about was he left me with an empty tank and registration to pay in April <grumble> <grumble>.

I don't know where you're from, but in Wisconsin, plates don't transfer from owner to owner, so you have to purchase new plates and pay the registration fee when you purchase a new vehicle.

On topic: Not bad at all. The body looks like it's in good shape.

 

[Eli]

I don't know where you're from, but in Wisconsin, plates don't transfer from owner to owner, so you have to purchase new plates and pay the registration fee when you purchase a new vehicle.

On topic: Not bad at all. The body looks like it's in good shape.

That's weird. I've never heard of that before. They must go through an astronomical number of plates? That seems like a waste.

The two states I've had cars registered in - Oregon and New Mexico, state plates are state plates.

Heck, I still have my Oregon plates. I wonder if I'll be able to re-use them? Probably?

 

[TanisHalfElven]

Except that he's keeping his current car so insurance is actually going up.

Would really only be worth it if you are replacing a current vehicle and driving a fair amount. And can keep stuff from breaking too much.

if you tell the insurance company that the car is not used frequently (which it probably won't be) you get a major discount.

 

[alkemyst]

if you tell the insurance company that the car is not used frequently (which it probably won't be) you get a major discount.

it's based on mileage and also once you get more cars than drivers in a household you also get a break knowing that one is not going to get much use.

Some policies have sections for weekend cars, very low rates but mileage caps of only a couple thousand miles per year.

I don't support fraud and with insurance it's one of those things that often saves one money until they need to make a claim and an adjuster does their due diligence only to find out there was no ABS, the car has 10x the mileage it was supposed to, etc.

 

[CRXican]

$800 isn't worth being seen in that

at least someone will get to enjoy the Evo, I daily drive mine

 

[alkemyst]

I am getting ready to buy a SRT8 for my 30+ mile commute each way.

 

[LTC8K6]

I am getting ready to buy a SRT8 for my 30+ mile commute each way.

The 392 6M is rated 23mpg highway, so not as awful as people might think.
If you are careful, you can probably get 25. :biggrin: