'How to be Gay' Course Draws Fire at University

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: rudder
cant you just watch TLC and learn to be gay?

I think you mean HGTV.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: idNut
I don't care if you're gay but why must there be a lifestyle out of it? Gay people are the only "open" people about their sexuality. Why can't they be like everyone else and just be quiet about their sexual preference? Just doesn't make sense to me.

I've met MANY heterosexual people who are open about their sexuality, nor do I think that you realize how heterosexuals proclaim their sexuality all of the time. Homosexuals do it no more than Heterosexuals.

 

[MainFramed]

Originally posted by: rbloedow
WTF?!?! How do these types of classes even make it past college approval boards?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: MainFramed

Originally posted by: rbloedow
WTF?!?! How do these types of classes even make it past college approval boards?

I guess you guys are waiting for a "Gay Geek" class.

And I doubt you'd still ever get laid.

 

[BoberFett]

gopunk

No, I didn't see the link to the actual course description. Nice of the article to misquote that.

 

[Analog]

direct link to course:
http://www.lsa.umich.edu/lsa/cg_detail/0,,8,00.html?termArray=f_03_1460&content=255823&dept=English%20Language%20and%20Literature

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sandorski
At first(after reading title) I was, WTF? After reading the article, I'm, So What?

Even the people quoted in opposition in the article seem unable to get around the course title, jumping to conclusions and speaking of things they haven't a clue about. Free advertising is great, I suppose.

Isn't this what OT is all about?

hehe, oops forgot.

 

[dejacky]

I have not laughed this hard at ANY anandtech offtopic thread. Thanks!

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: dejacky
I have not laughed this hard at ANY anandtech offtopic thread. Thanks!

Why are you bumping all threads that have the word "Gay" in the title?

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: dejacky
I have not laughed this hard at ANY anandtech offtopic thread. Thanks!

Why are you bumping all threads that have the word "Gay" in the title?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[TravisT]

Gosh, having those classes show what the wrold is coming to. *sigh*

I'm not homophobic, i'm just anti-queer.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: TravisT
Gosh, having those classes show what the wrold is coming to. *sigh*

I'm not homophobic, i'm just anti-queer.......

....and 100% idiot. Thanks for sharing.

 

[TravisT]

100% idiot for what? Because I don't agree with a lifestyle? If i said i was anti-drug dealing (without the anti-queer remark) would you still call me an idiot? I doubt it, because society looks down on those things. Please, keep allowing the queer judges tell you that 'it's okay to be gay' its about as okay as me going and killing someone. Enough said.

 

[dmw16]

I have no problem w/ it morally...but it seems like a dumb idea for a class.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: TravisT
100% idiot for what? Because I don't agree with a lifestyle? If i said i was anti-drug dealing (without the anti-queer remark) would you still call me an idiot? I doubt it, because society looks down on those things. Please, keep allowing the queer judges tell you that 'it's okay to be gay' its about as okay as me going and killing someone. Enough said.

There's a saying that goes "Better to be thought an idiot than to open one's mouth and confirm this suspicion for all." Congrats on backing that up with a real-life example for all of us. :beer:

 

[TravisT]

Talk to your grandpa. They say that with age you grow wiser. So all in all i'm srue he's wiser than you and me as well. However, i'm sure he, or atleast most grandfathers, would agree with me.

Keep throwing out your humorous remarks against me. My only point is that homosexuality in my eyes will never be 'okay'. And to see that they are bringing this into the school system is ridiculous in my opinion. Since when was 'How to be straight' ever a class? The school system would never allow you or I to have a class like that and just the thought of asking the school board about it would make them laugh.

All in all i'm saying that homosexuals in this country are getting special attention, that they seem to enjoy with their parades, and signs. Obviously they feel insecure about their sexuality or they wouldn't have to do those things. And I think there is a reason why they are insecure. BECAUSE ITS WRONG!

Probably the only reason why the board allowed this to go through is because if they didn't, they would be looked at as being homophobic and probably all the queers in michigan would be showing up at their door steps accusing them as such. We're already headed to the point of allowing them to get married, pretty soon they'll startl ooking for retribution or something.

Speaking of which, are you from San Francisco?

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: TravisT
Talk to your grandpa. They say that with age you grow wiser. So all in all i'm srue he's wiser than you and me as well. However, i'm sure he, or atleast most grandfathers, would agree with me.

Keep throwing out your humorous remarks against me. My only point is that homosexuality in my eyes will never be 'okay'. And to see that they are bringing this into the school system is ridiculous in my opinion. Since when was 'How to be straight' ever a class? The school system would never allow you or I to have a class like that and just the thought of asking the school board about it would make them laugh.

All in all i'm saying that homosexuals in this country are getting special attention, that they seem to enjoy with their parades, and signs. Obviously they feel insecure about their sexuality or they wouldn't have to do those things. And I think there is a reason why they are insecure. BECAUSE ITS WRONG!

Probably the only reason why the board allowed this to go through is because if they didn't, they would be looked at as being homophobic and probably all the queers in michigan would be showing up at their door steps accusing them as such. We're already headed to the point of allowing them to get married, pretty soon they'll startl ooking for retribution or something.

Speaking of which, are you from San Francisco?

Hehe....classic. You hit almost all the usual stuff except for the "I know some gay people and I haven't pistol-whipped them yet so I'm not a bigot."

To wit:

*I don't like gay people. Therefore gay = bad. You even equated it with drug-dealing and murder. Kudos.

*Special attention because they're insecure: check.

*Special attention allowed to proceed because people are afraid of getting sued or something: check.

*Accusing me of being gay because I think your opinion is completely stupid (which it is): check.



Now then, a few questions to tickle your pea brain.

1. Why is homosexuality "wrong"? A man lives with another man and they share the same bed. Please explain how this is detrimental to society and specifically how it impacts your day to day life.

2. Explain how this course is different from any other sociology course.

3. Explain why this course is a bad thing since it's AN ELECTIVE. Are you also saying that courses dealing with criminal activity could cause students to commit the acts described in the course? Could we be inadvertently training tomorrow's Son of Sam? :Q

 

[rickn]

this weeks classroom lesson, Do you like your men hairy or smooth :Q

 

[TravisT]

First of all, atleast act like an adult. Just because you may not agree with me doesn't mean you have to go back to the Jr High level. I never once assumed you were gay. The San Francisco question was because it seems a lot of people in the North seem to feel its okay. A lot of people in the south, where I am from, do not. Quite interesting if you think about it.

Originally posted by: Fausto1
1. Why is homosexuality "wrong"? A man lives with another man and they share the same bed. Please explain how this is detrimental to society and specifically how it impacts your day to day life.

I am a christian. The bible explicitly says it is wrong. It does not effect my day to day life, but neither does drug dealing, does that mean we should be okay with that?

2. Explain how this course is different from any other sociology course.

Sociology is the science of society. I do not consider this to be anyway near that. To me, this is like having a class over where drug dealers can keep their drugs from getting found. Or how to grow the marijuana. A real sociology is class would be the study of what was mentioned above. How society in the North reflects somewhat of a different outlook than a lot of the people in the south. That would be the study, but not how to dress gay. Why do they need to know how to dress gay? In fact, wouldn't a class in regards to fashion be enough sociology for them?

3. Explain why this course is a bad thing since it's AN ELECTIVE. Are you also saying that courses dealing with criminal activity could cause students to commit the acts described in the course? Could we be inadvertently training tomorrow's Son of Sam? :Q

Personally, I could go through this course and I could garauntee you that I wouldn't be gay. As mentioned above, you could have classes about drug-dealing. Where to hide your drugs, transportation of the drugs, or maybe even what to wear while drug dealing.

All in all, this is an elective. But in no way would the school system allow something that I mentioned above. Why? Because its wrong!

Also, just because I told you that someone picked up a gun and shot someone does not mean you would do it. I'm not sure where you are getting that assumption. However, with this class you are supporting the life style that gay people have. Much like having a drug dealing class (i know i'm killing this whole point, but it very well feels the same to me), no way would a drug dealing class be supportive of me or anyone else who doesn't use drugs. Much like this 'how to be gay' class doesn't attract straight people, they are targeting the homosexuals in the michigan area and supporting their lifestyle. Nothing more.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: TravisT
First of all, atleast act like an adult. Just because you may not agree with me doesn't mean you have to go back to the Jr High level. I never once assumed you were gay. The San Francisco question was because it seems a lot of people in the North seem to feel its okay. A lot of people in the south, where I am from, do not. Quite interesting if you think about it.

Um...yeah. Fascinating. Except San Fran isn't "north" and I live in the South.

Originally posted by: Fausto1
1. Why is homosexuality "wrong"? A man lives with another man and they share the same bed. Please explain how this is detrimental to society and specifically how it impacts your day to day life.

I am a christian. The bible explicitly says it is wrong. It does not effect my day to day life, but neither does drug dealing, does that mean we should be okay with that?[/quote]
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!! Wrong.

I don't want to know what books say it's wrong, I want to know why it's wrong. Furthermore, something like drug dealing does affect you. Think about it; it takes money to police the streets, money to incarcerate the dealers and users, money for rehab, violence occurs with regularity (and innocents can get caught in the crossfire), families and lives are destroyed every day, etc, etc, etc. Two men sharing a relationship is a totally different ball of wax. It's pathetic that you are so absolutely against something and you don't even know why. You just read it in a book.

2. Explain how this course is different from any other sociology course.

Sociology is the science of society. I do not consider this to be anyway near that. To me, this is like having a class over where drug dealers can keep their drugs from getting found. Or how to grow the marijuana. A real sociology is class would be the study of what was mentioned above. How society in the North reflects somewhat of a different outlook than a lot of the people in the south. That would be the study, but not how to dress gay. Why do they need to know how to dress gay? In fact, wouldn't a class in regards to fashion be enough sociology for them?[/quote]
You didn't actually read the original article, did you? Why am I not surprised. It's a class on the hows and whys of gay culture. How is that any different than a class on the hows and whys of Southern culture (aside from the fact that you hate gay people, of course). Again....forming an opinion without really knowing what you're talking about.

3. Explain why this course is a bad thing since it's AN ELECTIVE. Are you also saying that courses dealing with criminal activity could cause students to commit the acts described in the course? Could we be inadvertently training tomorrow's Son of Sam? :Q

Personally, I could go through this course and I could garauntee you that I wouldn't be gay. [/quote]
Of course you could....because classes, music, clothes and movies don't make people gay. Thank you for unwittingly supporting my point.

As mentioned above, you could have classes about drug-dealing. Where to hide your drugs, transportation of the drugs, or maybe even what to wear while drug dealing.

All in all, this is an elective. But in no way would the school system allow something that I mentioned above. Why? Because its wrong!

Yeah, but you can't actually tell me why it's wrong or even make a differentiation between violent crime and two men holding hands. Strong work again.

Also, just because I told you that someone picked up a gun and shot someone does not mean you would do it. I'm not sure where you are getting that assumption. However, with this class you are supporting the life style that gay people have. Much like having a drug dealing class (i know i'm killing this whole point, but it very well feels the same to me), no way would a drug dealing class be supportive of me or anyone else who doesn't use drugs. Much like this 'how to be gay' class doesn't attract straight people, they are targeting the homosexuals in the michigan area and supporting their lifestyle. Nothing more.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. The class is study, observation, and analysis. Not promotion (again, you'd know this if you'd bothered to read the article instead of the bible for once). That being the case, it's no different that a sociological study of Southerners, or serial killers, or Mennonites.....and (as you pointed out) it's not going to make anyone suddenly turn gay. Adding insult to injury, many students at U of M are actually out-of-staters so your "targeting the gay people in MI" theory is totally without merit.


Now tell me how being gay is bad from an "evolutionary standpoint".....or had you not thought of that yet?

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: sandorski
At first(after reading title) I was, WTF? After reading the article, I'm, So What?

Even the people quoted in opposition in the article seem unable to get around the course title, jumping to conclusions and speaking of things they haven't a clue about. Free advertising is great, I suppose.

I am one of michigans taxpayers and my take on it is that the provocative course title coupled with Mr. Halperns activist agenda cause many of us to question what the real purpose of the course is. Is it truly a sociological examination of what it is to be a gay man or is it a gay activism training course? Mr Halperns own statements give some creedence to the latter being a distinct possibility.

Mr. Glenn notes that Mr. Halperin has boasted in print about his success in advancing a homosexual agenda. In a 1996 article in an academic journal, Mr. Halperin wrote: "Let there be no mistake about it: lesbian and gay studies, as it is currently practiced in the U.S., expresses an uncompromising political militancy. ... The emergence of lesbian and gay studies has brought about a far-reaching intellectual transformation in the disciplines of the humanities, arts and social sciences as well as in the social life of American universities and in the professional culture of American academe." Mr. Halperin wrote that "lesbian and gay studies scholars" were leaders in lobbying universities and governments "to adopt and enforce anti-discrimination policies, to recognize same-sex couples, to oppose the U.S. military's anti-gay policy, to suspend professional activities in states that criminalize gay sex or limit access to abortion, and to intervene on behalf of human rights for lesbians, bisexuals and gay men at the local and national levels."

Thats all well and good and his right as a american citizen to espouse his views but that shouldn't be funded by the taxpayers of this state.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: NesuD

Originally posted by: sandorski
At first(after reading title) I was, WTF? After reading the article, I'm, So What?

Even the people quoted in opposition in the article seem unable to get around the course title, jumping to conclusions and speaking of things they haven't a clue about. Free advertising is great, I suppose.

I am one of michigans taxpayers and my take on it is that the provocative course title coupled with Mr. Halperns activist agenda cause many of us to question what the real purpose of the course is. Is it truly a sociological examination of what it is to be a gay man or is it a gay activism training course? Mr Halperns own statements give some creedence to the latter being a distinct possibility.

Mr. Glenn notes that Mr. Halperin has boasted in print about his success in advancing a homosexual agenda. In a 1996 article in an academic journal, Mr. Halperin wrote: "Let there be no mistake about it: lesbian and gay studies, as it is currently practiced in the U.S., expresses an uncompromising political militancy. ... The emergence of lesbian and gay studies has brought about a far-reaching intellectual transformation in the disciplines of the humanities, arts and social sciences as well as in the social life of American universities and in the professional culture of American academe." Mr. Halperin wrote that "lesbian and gay studies scholars" were leaders in lobbying universities and governments "to adopt and enforce anti-discrimination policies, to recognize same-sex couples, to oppose the U.S. military's anti-gay policy, to suspend professional activities in states that criminalize gay sex or limit access to abortion, and to intervene on behalf of human rights for lesbians, bisexuals and gay men at the local and national levels."

Thats all well and good and his right as a american citizen to espouse his views but that shouldn't be funded by the taxpayers of this state.

Taking things out of context is fun, isn't it? Here's the article that Glenn excised his "damning" comments from. It's a bit different than what he's trying to imply.

A Response from David Halperin to Dennis Altman

 

[GeekDrew]

Why on earth are you comparing homosexuals to drug dealers and murderers? They aren't even remotely close to the same principal...
Murderers, drug dealers, etc, affect *everyone* in society. Homosexuals affect his/her partner, and that is it. Uhmmmmm... certainly I'm not the only one that realizes that there is no link between gays and drug dealers. Facts about me certain to send you over the edge: I'm gay, I work in a high school (that's right, public education, around all kinds of easily influenced kids), and I am not even close to being anything like a drug dealer. It's common knowledge in my office that I am gay, but nobody thinks anything of it. I'm just another staff member. None of the students have ever asked me anything about it (and while most don't know, I'm sure, some of them do; I do NOT announce it, promote it, or otherwise engage ANY student into any conversation about sexuality, much less homosexuality).

As for special attention because homosexuals are insecure... that's completely wrong. Some gays are insecure. Whoopie. Some straight people are insecure too. That doesn't mean they want special attention. Believe me, I'm not insecure about my sexuality any more. I used to be very insecure about it... but that's changed. Most of my friends feel the same way. Being secure in our beliefs is not something we have a problem with.

Hrmm... about being sued, and allowing special attention because of being sued... so what? I don't pay any attention to gay parades, pride rallies, or other activist events. Nobody else has to pay any attention to it either. Some gays may want attention; many of them do not. Is it wrong for blacks to be proud of being black? I know places that have parades for African-American days...

It dumbfounds me as to why some people can't distinguish between homosexuals and immoral villians. Drug dealers, murderers, etc, affect everyone. We do not. Why do some people make such a big deal out of it? I just can't fathom why so many people are anti-gay... I just can't find any logic in it :-/

If someone wants to teach a class about anything, let them... just make sure that it's an elective. If a student wants to take it, great. If not, then it shouldn't bother them at all.

 

[LAUST]

lol, I knew I hated that state

 

[OmegaRedd]

This course a gay waste of money who would want to learn be gay, and don't the botty boys already know all about it. What does this course propose to offer for the children of hard working parents? These butt nutz have crossed the line what slackness they do behind closed doors is not a school course. What kind of education is this anal sex 101?