• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

How to appeal this citation - events clarified

T

ther00kie16

Golden Member
My first citation and wasn't my fault. Would like some advice as it's kinda tricky since the other vehicle was a city vehicle and shouldn't be either driver's fault.

Came to a stop sign, other direction had a red light roughly 150' off so cars were stopped/stopping.
Car slows to a stop in front of me in the middle of intersection. He sees me and backs up (car behind me stopped well behind) carefully (turned head around during backing up). He turns to me and waves, which I assumed to be a signal that I was okay to go.
I pull through and gets hit in the curb lane by the city vehicle that's going probably close to 30MPH. My vehicle gets totaled.
I couldn't see him since there were 3 or 4 cars behind the car that backed up to let me through.

I get written up for 4 pts for "FAILURE TO YIELD FROM STOP SIGN" and a fine. What should I do? What are my odds against a city vehicle? I'll definitely write in as opposed to wait for the trial date but what can I do to minimize the fine and points? I made a weak argument about the red light 150' away and that he was going too fast but the cop said that was for the next intersection.
What can I really contest and how should I go about it? There was a witness and he said pretty much the same thing I did so my words have backing. As the fine isn't that much (<$100), I'd rather not risk paying extra for court fees or whatever. I'd also rather not waste 3hr just to knock half of it off. Think I'm going to bike for awhile now (sucks as winter's coming) but does 4pts matter that much?


CLARIFIED EVENTS:
- Pull up to stop sign and sees car in inner lane creeping to a stop in intersection for red light 150' ahead

- Driver sees me, turns head while backing up and waves me through.

- I assume him to be a good citizen so I wave back and start to cross intersection

- I drive slowly and cautiously through and gets T-boned right behind front right wheel by city utility vehicle going probably 25+MPH.

How should I go about my appeals and what can I use in my favor to lessen my financial responsibility (and points, which I don't care as much since I'm a good driver and am unlikely to get into more accidents) if and when the city bills me for damages?

Other possibly relevant info: several cars in inner lane blocked my view of outer lane, which had a parked car ~100' back.
 
Last edited:
A person waving you on doesn't mean you don't have to yield. You should have waited until the road was clear.

Edit: Wait, the other traffic had a stop light at the moment you were hit? Hmmm. I'm not sure what to make of that. You should have had right of way in that case. I you can find someone to witness for you you ought to be able to get the citation thrown out. I didn't think you had to pay court fees if you just make the court date on your ticket and plead not guilty, but I don't have experience with that really.
 
Last edited:
It's your fault, you can't proceed till it's clear to do so. Obviously, it wasn't clear.
Also, need paint diagram.
 
SlitheryDee said:
A person waving you on doesn't mean you don't have to yield. You should have waited until the road was clear.

Edit: Wait, the other traffic had a stop light at the moment you were hit? Hmmm. I'm not sure what to make of that. You should have had right of way in that case. I you can find someone to witness for you you ought to be able to get the citation thrown out. I didn't think you had to pay court fees if you just make the court date on your ticket and plead not guilty, but I don't have experience with that really.
Click to expand...

Other direction had a light 150' ahead. But curb lane, which is right turn only and had a car parked 100' back from the intersection or so, was where I got hit.

I did yield, but couldn't see the curb lane car since it was blocked off from view by several cars.
 
ther00kie16 said:
Other direction had a light 150' ahead. But curb lane, which is right turn only and had a car parked 100' back from the intersection or so, was where I got hit.

I did yield, but couldn't see the curb lane car since it was blocked off from view by several cars.
Click to expand...

Need paint diagram but it sounds like you'll just have to suck it up. Even if someone waves you on it's your responsibility to make sure the road is clear.
 
Your fault as far as I can see. Not sure what your argument could possibly be. It's your responsibility to see and avoid and if you can't see then you can't proceed.
 
Sounds confusing but you can't assume a wave means you're clear.

Just like the person that gets waved to make a left turn into a driveway and then gets plowed by the guy flying up the third lane.

FAIL
 
You need a diagram. I have no idea how to decipher what you wrote into a coherent scenario where anybody could possibly be anything other than crazy.
 
if I understand your post, you were cutting across waiting traffic at an intersection, and a person in the inside lane hit you. You are at fault, you were responsible for failing to yield to oncoming traffic with the right of way.
 
ther00kie16 said:
Other direction had a light 150' ahead. But curb lane, which is right turn only and had a car parked 100' back from the intersection or so, was where I got hit.

I did yield, but couldn't see the curb lane car since it was blocked off from view by several cars.
Click to expand...

If the right-turn lane isn't marked, and the city vehicle was just trying to get around other cars without waiting for the light to turn, then it's not your fault. If the right-turn lane IS marked, then it is your fault, and there's nothing you can do about it.
 
For the life of me I can't understand your description of events. It sounds like you had a stop sign, the cross traffic had no stop sign or signals, and you entered the intersection at the suggestion of another driver (who was stupidly backing out of the intersection) and were hit by a vehicle (which was owned by the city) that had the right of way.

And how are you going to argue that this isn't your fault?
 
I did yield, but couldn't see the curb lane car since it was blocked off from view by several cars.
Click to expand...



There's your answer right there. You couldn't see the curb lane ... but you went anyway.
 
crashoy.jpg


Well, I gathered enough that legally it would most likely be my fault. However, I was wondering what kind of options I would have, especially since I would probably be billed damages. What can I argue? And if I have no legal points to base off of, what can I plead in my favor to lessen my financial responsibility in the case?

Actually, now to think of it, I'll probably get a separate case claim for the damages later as the driver isn't the owner of the city utility truck. So I need to think of what I need to do to prepare for that case.

Any suggestions other than previously perfect driving record, obstructed view and seemingly stopped traffic due to the red light?
 
Last edited:
Like it or not, it is your fault for not yielding. But talk to the prosecutor. You may be able to knock it down to "careless driving" which is usually only a 2 point offense as opposed to 4 points.
 
rudder said:
Stop right there. you are at fault. His hand signals don't mean shit whether they were valid or not.
Click to expand...

Yea yea, let's assume there are good citizens who back up to let others go (to think of it, i should've floored it before he crept into the intersection but i was being good and careful) and others who post good advice in response to those who ask for help on these forums. So if you can't get over the legal point of view that's been pointed out a dozen times already, can you offer some helpful advice how to appeal my case so I won't have to bend over and shell out thousands to the city for a minor grille damage, etc?
 
I hope I'm not the only one who can't really understand OPs description.

edit: just saw the ms paint diagram. ty, makes a lot more sense now.
 
Last edited:
CLARIFIED EVENTS:
- Pull up to stop sign and sees car in inner lane creeping to a stop in intersection for light red light 150' ahead

- Driver sees me, turns head while backing up and waves me through.

- I assume him to be a good citizen so I wave back and start to cross intersection

- I drive slowly and cautiously through and gets T-boned in right behind front right wheel by city utility vehicle going probably 25+MPH.

How should I go about my appeals and what can I use in my favor to lessen my financial responsibility (and points, which I don't care as much since I'm a good driver and am unlikely to get into more accidents) if and when the city bills me for damages?

Other possibly relevant info: several cars in inner lane blocked my view of outer lane, which had a parked car ~100' back.

Attached pic again for convenince
crashoy.jpg
 
Last edited:
Get your state's vehicle code and look for technicalities. Vehicular laws are a tangled web of contradictions. I know someone in CA who is seemingly immune to driving laws despite regularly breaking them and getting caught. Even when the intention of the law clearly puts him at fault, he always, always wins his cases while representing himself thanks to knowing the 3" thick CA vehicle code book better than the police or lawyers involved in the cases. If you were he, I suspect the end result of this case would be the city paying you damages. I don't know how feasible it is for a normal person to do that, but you might at least find ways to protect yourself if the punishment is larger than expected.
 
So the city car was proceeding to the red light in a right-turn only lane? IMO, the parked car is irrelevant. Also, my guess is that 30 mph is likely the speed limit, so the driver of the city car is not at fault for that either.

If that's the case, I don't see how you have any argument. As others have said, it was obviously not clear for you to cross the intersection.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top