How The Rich Are Winning

[SammyJr]

Is it just my wishful thinking or has the ability of the US government to work for and benefit its citizens been inversely correlated with the explosion of lobbying, which started to go stratospheric a few administrations ago? I consider it outright corruption, selling votes for money. It poisons every facet of Washington.

You've hit the nail on the head. The best thing for the bottom 99% would be a Constitutional amendment banning monetary and corporate lobbying of any kind. Additionally, retiring Government officials should not be allowed to be hired in a industry they regulated or legislated for a period of 5 years.

 

[SammyJr]

Our problem isn't an ignorant populace. Our problem is the same tired old problem: Too much government interference.

Too much Government interference. That this is a problem sheds light on the bigger problem: our Government isn't "We the People", its "We the Corporations" or "We the Lobbyists". If our Government was functioning properly, there would be no interference - just laws and regulations that "We the People" want and need.

Democracy is about giving power to the common people. Without it, the people with the money and resources have all the power. We do need to "take our country back", but not by giving more of it to the corporations, the bankers, and other wealthy types.

 

[BoberFett]

When government regulations and policies are such that allow corporations to have the power and control you can't blame the individual consumers, investors, etc for following the money. If they don't they risk being left behind or worse.

American consumers have the power. They have the power to not purchase shit from companies that offshore.

How many times will it take to drive that point into your thick, neanderthal skull?

 

[bamacre]

American consumers have the power. They have the power to not purchase shit from companies that offshore.

How many times will it take to drive that point into your thick, neanderthal skull?

Assuming the same quality, why should Americans buy a $50 shirt made in the USA when they can get a $10 shirt made in Pakistan? I mean, if Pakistan can make shirts cheaper than we can, maybe we should be making something else.

Back to China, I imagine one problem here is that we have basically been exporting our inflation to them. That's on a path to being fixed. Chinese goods will end up costing us more, so we'll buy less, and they'll be able to buy more goods that they make, too. We'll find American-made goods to be more competitively priced than their Chinese counterparts soon, too. But not because those goods will be cheaper, but because Chinese goods will be more expensive.

 

[BoberFett]

Assuming the same quality, why should Americans buy a $50 shirt made in the USA when they can get a $10 shirt made in Pakistan? I mean, if Pakistan can make shirts cheaper than we can, maybe we should be making something else.

Because Pakistan doesn't buy anything back from us. Eventually trade imbalance will destroy an economy. The theory is that over time your imports and exports will balance out as fluctuating currency values will make local manufacturing cheaper again. Personally, I'd rather not average our economy with Pakistan's. I'd rather average our economy with countries who expect at least somewhat similar expectations of lifestyle and little things like civil rights.

Back to China, I imagine one problem here is that we have basically been exporting our inflation to them. That's on a path to being fixed. Chinese goods will end up costing us more, so we'll buy less, and they'll be able to buy more goods that they make, too. We'll find American-made goods to be more competitively priced than their Chinese counterparts soon, too. But not because those goods will be cheaper, but because Chinese goods will be more expensive.

That's simply not going to happen. When Chinese goods become too expensive, manufacturing will move again and the US will continue to "export inflation."

You know me, bamacre. I'm all for a free market. But I'm also for a fair market. Outsourcing to countries without the same regulatory environment as us is not fair. All we're doing at that point is averaging our economy with a impoverished one. No thanks.

 

[bamacre]

How wealthy can we be when we have to buy $50 shirts? $500 PC power supplies? $1500 20in LCD monitors?

 

[JS80]

Because Pakistan doesn't buy anything back from us. Eventually trade imbalance will destroy an economy. The theory is that over time your imports and exports will balance out as fluctuating currency values will make local manufacturing cheaper again. Personally, I'd rather not average our economy with Pakistan's. I'd rather average our economy with countries who expect at least somewhat similar expectations of lifestyle and little things like civil rights.



That's simply not going to happen. When Chinese goods become too expensive, manufacturing will move again and the US will continue to "export inflation."

You know me, bamacre. I'm all for a free market. But I'm also for a fair market. Outsourcing to countries without the same regulatory environment as us is not fair. All we're doing at that point is averaging our economy with a impoverished one. No thanks.

No, it doesn't. Pakistan has to, eventually one day, buy something back from us. If they don't, then it benefits us because over the long run there is inflation and they lose their purchasing power with their dollar reserve holdings. It's a win/win for the US.

Rook at the chinamen. They hoard a trirrion US dorra reserve and they keep arrowing us to send our depreciating dorra bill for their goods. Eventuarry their reserves will rose varue and/or they have to reciprocate the trade and start buying our shit.

 

[BoberFett]

How wealthy can we be when we have to buy $50 shirts? $500 PC power supplies? $1500 20in LCD monitors?

That's the thing. We never were wealthy. Everything we've bought has been on credit. Those $10 shirts cost us $50 anyway, because we'll be paying for it for decades.

 

[bamacre]

That's the thing. We never were wealthy. Everything we've bought has been on credit. Those $10 shirts cost us $50 anyway, because we'll be paying for it for decades.

Well, that's true for some, but not for all of us.

We may have to agree to disagree here. I just don't think economic isolationism is generally good for our economy (of course that's a bit more extreme than you're suggesting) whether it be by force of government or will of the people.

 

[BoberFett]

No, it doesn't. Pakistan has to, eventually one day, buy something back from us. If they don't, then it benefits us because over the long run there is inflation and they lose their purchasing power with their dollar reserve holdings. It's a win/win for the US.

Rook at the chinamen. They hoard a trirrion US dorra reserve and they keep arrowing us to send our depreciating dorra bill for their goods. Eventuarry their reserves will rose varue and/or they have to reciprocate the trade and start buying our shit.

I'm sure China will buy something from us eventually. But it won't be Ford cars or Microsoft operating systems. They'll buy Ford and Microsoft. Corporate headquarters will move to Beijing, and manufacturing plants will all move to Congo, or whatever the new shithole manufacturing country is. Then what? We'll have trillions of dollars back, which we can now spend on goods made in Congo and MS tech support will be answered by people named John *click* *whistle* *pop* Smith, while profits end up in Beijing. After we blow through that cash in a year we're back where we were.

 

[BoberFett]

Well, that's true for some, but not for all of us.

We may have to agree to disagree here. I just don't think economic isolationism is generally good for our economy (of course that's a bit more extreme than you're suggesting) whether it be by force of government or will of the people.

You may not have personally been buying things on credit. Other than my mortgage, neither have I. But the government has been doing plenty of it on your behalf.

I'm not advocating economic isolationism, but trading with countries whose economies are worlds apart from ours doesn't work either.

 

[SammyJr]

Because Pakistan doesn't buy anything back from us. Eventually trade imbalance will destroy an economy. The theory is that over time your imports and exports will balance out as fluctuating currency values will make local manufacturing cheaper again. Personally, I'd rather not average our economy with Pakistan's. I'd rather average our economy with countries who expect at least somewhat similar expectations of lifestyle and little things like civil rights.



That's simply not going to happen. When Chinese goods become too expensive, manufacturing will move again and the US will continue to "export inflation."

You know me, bamacre. I'm all for a free market. But I'm also for a fair market. Outsourcing to countries without the same regulatory environment as us is not fair. All we're doing at that point is averaging our economy with a impoverished one. No thanks.

Holy shit. Another comment where I agree with you completely. Hell has indeed frozen over.