How The Rich Are Winning

[Craig234]

In your example, what if the leader's of financial companies did behave? Then is the system the opposite of corrupt?

The system itself is amoral and impartial. The people involved in that system decide whether corruption exists or not. A system can be designed to combat or prevent corruption, but people always find a way around it.

Is Communism corrupt? No, the ideology of Communism is not corrupt. It has the interests of the people at its core. However, as we've seen time and time again, Communism doesn't work because despite its best intentions, the people in control find a way to manipulate the system to service their needs at the expense of others.

In that case, you would have people behaving well in a corrupt system. I should note that the reason a system like that gets created is generally from the pressure of the big finance interests who will benefit corruptly influencing the government to pass it; and that I know of no case when such a system has not been abused for 'corrupt' activities.

Our current system has some protection from judges having conflict of interest. How about we make the system remove all those rules, so if the judge is hearing a case he will benefit in financially between his family member and a stranger, that's 'no problem'? As you say, maybe the judge will rule fairly, even for the other side. The system is still more corrupt than not allowing that sort of conflict.

 

[JS80]

You should come over to EU, you would get a shock. What grand "welfare" is there in the states?

And how does the spending on this "welfare" compare to other spendings, like military?

Give me a break. There might be many reasons why (in your opinion) this country is going to shit...but i DONT think its the spending on welfare

Just because the EU has grander welfare doesn't mean the US doesn't have grand welfare.

 

[Craig234]

LOL I guess Socialism and Communism aren't gambling because you already know the end result - 100% chance you will lose.

Yes, all those Swedes living in poverty, high crime, low productivity... they envy us.

Our glory days of having 90% elder poverty, people without access to healthcare...

 

[Patranus]

I'm not poor, but I acknowledge that in addition to a lot of hard work and talent, I've had some luck along the way that helped move me forward.

Please elaborate.

Did you find a bag of cash on the street and used that money to start a business?

 

[spidey07]

How would you explain that to your ten year old self, your children?If your ethics and dignity end at the door, you're a crappy role model. Kind of sucks that you are, productive people like you are usually deserving of praise.

I would of course explain that integrity is your own and how you make decisions in your personal life. Then I would explain the game of work and how one can advance if they don't mix their personal integrity with the game.

 

[JS80]

Why is it that we bail out these massive corporations and complain when their CEOs make a fortune?

They are bailing themselves out with their own money. I doubt you/me/ATOT contributed any meaningful portion to the bailout. In fact, the "people" as a whole were a cost, i.e. the wealth was distributed via free housing from living rent free by defaulting and mortgage adjustments/short sales/foreclosures.

Regardless, I disagree with any type of welfare - to corporate or to piece of shit low lives.

 

[spidey07]

Please elaborate.

Did you find a bag of cash on the street and used that money to start a business?

Heh, you know there are several federal and state programs that will give you money to start a business. So that bag of cash on the street is already there.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

My point is that luck isn't required. Opportunity comes to everybody and different times (that is what some call luck). But having the skills or wisdom to recognize that opportunity is knocking and one should do something about it are what separates the successful attitude and the attitude that will forever hold one back (all while they blame somebody or something else for their failure).

I agree, and there's a lot of merit to what you say in bold. I had a lot of things fall my way and obviously, I did recognize them and pounce on them. There were also things that fell my way that I didn't take advantage of as well. And for me personally, there was a situation where I tried to create my own opportunity, a boss talked me out of it, and fortunately, he was correct.

 

[highland145]

Heh, you know there are several federal and state programs that will give you money to start a business. So that bag of cash on the street is already there.

Sarcasm?

 

[JS80]

Yes, all those Swedes living in poverty, high crime, low productivity... they envy us.

Our glory days of having 90% elder poverty, people without access to healthcare...

lol carve out Beverly Hills, or any suburb with 99% upper middle class white people, and you can have 50% tax rates free healthcare and unicorns and rainbows.

Start adding compton, pico rivera, south gate, paramount, watts to your utopia and watch it come crumbling down. See Greece for current case study.

 

[child of wonder]

In that case, you would have people behaving well in a corrupt system. I should note that the reason a system like that gets created is generally from the pressure of the big finance interests who will benefit corruptly influencing the government to pass it; and that I know of no case when such a system has not been abused for 'corrupt' activities.

Our current system has some protection from judges having conflict of interest. How about we make the system remove all those rules, so if the judge is hearing a case he will benefit in financially between his family member and a stranger, that's 'no problem'? As you say, maybe the judge will rule fairly, even for the other side. The system is still more corrupt than not allowing that sort of conflict.

Sure, a system can be made to favor one side over another. However, in terms of capitalism I don't feel that's the case.

People in power are able to tip the scales in their favor but that's a reflection of their corruption, not the system's.

At any rate, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Patranus]

Heh, you know there are several federal and state programs that will give you money to start a business. So that bag of cash on the street is already there.

I would not consider that luck. That would require hard work and research to successfully obtain that money. Same thing with a private investor or VC.

I would consider luck being something totally outside ones control like winning the lottery.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Please elaborate.

Did you find a bag of cash on the street and used that money to start a business?

No, what I meant was that in at least a couple of my promotions, I was in the right place at the right time. For example, in one situation, the boss left and I was promoted into his manager role. I would never have gotten that job otherwise or at least, not for many years. You can argue that I got the position because of my skill and work, true, but I was lucky to be around when that job opened. It was a job I always wanted.

 

[desy]

EQ trumps IQ in career mobility and witnessed many times over

Lets get back to luck, its not an attitude, its called 'managed risks'

I've accepted my fate as a wage slave. I slowly invest over time and deny myself things over the course of life so I'll have options about retirement time. My buddy has 'more' than me but has less time to enjoy it so is he better off today? We will probably be the same come retirement age financially.

Two different philosophies similar outcomes

 

[flexy]

And that attitude by "poor people" is why they will remain "poor".

Luck DOES plays a role, but also positive attitude, 100%.

 

[SammyJr]

That's what make America so great. If you want to become rich and successful you can do it here thanks to our free market economy. All it takes is hard work and some ingenuity. We don't want to be like those other nations that force equality of outcome like you apparently do. But that is just your jealousy speaking. Projections of an inability to succeed forces you to blame somebody else.

America is about equal opportunity, not equal outcome. This is the land of the great where you can achieve whatever you want.

Religious beliefs FTL.

 

[shira]

You can always tell who is successful. You can tell by the attitude. This is the correct attitude to success.

The incorrect one is - it's somebody else's fault, this person makes too much, we should cap salaries, those evil rich are bad people, you have to be lucky and I'm not lucky, etc. That is the attitude of mediocrity and object failure.

Really? Then how come all you right-wingers do is complain that the Obama administration is doing this, that, or the other and ruining the United States? According to you - with your "correct attitude" - your success is immune to anything Obama does. So how come all you do is complain?

 

[Martin]

That's what make America so great. If you want to become rich and successful you can do it here thanks to our free market economy. All it takes is hard work and some ingenuity. We don't want to be like those other nations that force equality of outcome like you apparently do. But that is just your jealousy speaking. Projections of an inability to succeed forces you to blame somebody else.

America is about equal opportunity, not equal outcome. This is the land of the great where you can achieve whatever you want.

Yeah, America's pretty great, but not quite as great as Mexico. They have higher inequality and the cap on your earnings is higher too. The richest person in the world is Mexican after all.

 

[SammyJr]

You can always tell who is successful. You can tell by the attitude. This is the correct attitude to success.

The incorrect one is - it's somebody else's fault, this person makes too much, we should cap salaries, those evil rich are bad people, you have to be lucky and I'm not lucky, etc. That is the attitude of mediocrity and object failure.

Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are total failures because they don't BELIEVE.

 

[Brigandier]

I would of course explain that integrity is your own and how you make decisions in your personal life. Then I would explain the game of work and how one can advance if they don't mix their personal integrity with the game.

Fair enough, I think you should also explain that that's only one way to approach it. I find it difficult to leave my integrity at home. If that means I'll have to work harder to make up for that, so be it, as long as I get to where I want.

 

[child of wonder]

Please elaborate.

Did you find a bag of cash on the street and used that money to start a business?

One of the big breaks in my life came when I was still going to school. I happened to be building a computer for my wife's uncle when there was a knock at the door. It was a friend of my father in law's who was stopping by to deliver a wedding present for us. He owned a small business and seeing the computer parts on the kitchen table, he asked if I worked on computers and knew anything about Linux. They had a Linux server that was acting up and their normal IT person had just quit out of the blue.

That led to me becoming their IT person part time while I went to school and got me some very valuable experience. This helped me land a System Admin job right after I got my AAS Degree while many of my classmates were taking Help Desk positions.

What would my life be like if this man had decided to deliver our wedding gift two days earlier or later when there were no computer parts on the table?

I'm not saying ALL my success hinged on that opportunity, but it sure helped. Since then I've used my ambition and talent to become even more successful.

 

[SammyJr]

The middle class is shrinking because we do everything we can to prop up the poor.

The government can only take so much from "the rich", the rest comes from the middle class, to hand out to the poor.

Take a rich billionaire and redistribute all his wealth. His billion dollars translates into $3 for each person. Big whoop.

I thought the idea was to cut taxes for billionaires and his wealth would trickle down upon us.

 

[spidey07]

Really? Then how come all you right-wingers do is complain that the Obama administration is doing this, that, or the other and ruining the United States? According to you - with your "correct attitude" - your success is immune to anything Obama does. So how come all you do is complain?

When have I EVER blamed Obama for me not being successful? I can blame him for destroying our economy and scaring the crap out of business and how that affects the country as a whole. But he certainly isn't holding me back, I'm just holding onto my wallet and weathering the obama nightmare.

 

[Pens1566]

I love threads like this. Shows exactly why some people believe the "all poor/unemployed are just lazy" theory. Detached from reality ..

 

[shira]

When have I EVER blamed Obama for me not being successful? I can blame him for destroying our economy and scaring the crap out of business and how that affects the country as a whole. But he certainly isn't holding me back, I'm just holding onto my wallet and weathering the obama nightmare.

Bullshit. You're blaming Obama for making things bad. Which means you think people and companies are doing worse BECAUSE of Obama. Yet according to your "theory," no one who has "the right attitude" can fail to succeed.

You don't believe a word you spout. You're a fvcking liar.