How strict is your PTO policy?

[Dr. Detroit]

I worked in public accounting for over 9yrs -

She needs to walk away from this place and find a new firm that respects its employees.

Everyone in the industry pretty much knows that once the busy season crush is over that its flex time. So long as you get your chargeable work done, I and most other managers did not give a fuck about you taking off early or hitting the Dr. mid-day.

You have to keep morale up as other competing firms are always hiring.

Good luck!

 

[JimmiG]

Does anyone else work for a company like this?

No. If I did, it would only be temporary. I would spend all the free time (I guess one or two hours on Sunday nights?) looking for a new job.

All my employers have been cool about occasionally taking a 2 hour lunch break or leaving early, as long as it wasn't being abused.

 

[kranky]

Making someone take a half-day PTO when they came in early to leave one hour early is outrageous. If that happened where I work we'd lose 50% of the people to competitors in the blink of an eye. Probably hopeless to expect the company to change so to me the best option is a different job.

 

[clamum]

Jeez. No I don't work at a place like that and I wouldn't.

Ours isn't strict really; if you need PTO you take it and it doesn't matter the reason.

And beginning last summer, a new thing called "summer hours" was instituted. It was a total of 3 days, to be taken in six 4-hour time blocks, of additional PTO days for the summer. This year it'll just be 2 days, but we can opt to take a whole day off instead of just a half day. I'd rather have the 3 total days, but whatever, I'm still happy about it. It was done for people to be able to more easily get to appointments or run errands, or just enjoy time off during the nicer weather.

 

[SearchMaster]

Making someone take a half-day PTO when they came in early to leave one hour early is outrageous. If that happened where I work we'd lose 50% of the people to competitors in the blink of an eye. Probably hopeless to expect the company to change so to me the best option is a different job.

I had a thought this morning that maybe they're acting the way they are to prevent anyone from interviewing elsewhere. If you are pretty much bound to the office from 9-5 every day, it's pretty hard to find time to look for another job. Seems self-defeating, but some people can't see the forest for the trees.

Her co-worker who got docked the half-day for seeing the doctor is going to talk to the owner today. The owner is a good guy and oblivious to a lot of the goings-on with the day-to-day stuff (one of those genius types who doesn't relate that well with others sometimes) and if changes aren't made accordingly they might find themselves with an empty office soon. They only have a few accountants (3 IIRC) so losing 1 would be a big loss, losing 2 would be potentially devastating to the business.

 

[Ns1]

Having been in a 10 person CPA office, your wife is still being hosed. GTFO ASAP. It's not even busy season anymore.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

My PTO is flexible and I have a 980 schedule where I can move my Fridays off around if needed. I don't abuse it, but I definitely take advantage of that so I can save PTO for the big trips.

 

[TheSiege]

Unlimited PTO, never had an issue leaving during the day, I work for a popular webhosting company in their data center

 

[TheSiege]

I am currently in a very small startup - we work hard but taking time off is no problem. I was at my previous company over a decade - we could take days off pretty much any time, if we needed a couple of hours in the middle of the day to run errands, it wasn't a problem. We received a lot of PTO but for the most part it wasn't abused (our department was 100+ in a company of ~3000).

My wife is in a completely different situation. She's a professional (accountant) in a small accounting firm. Everyone worked 80-100 hours/week during tax season (Saturdays were mandatory, but she and most others worked 90% of Sundays as well). She's just getting started in the industry after raising our kids for 10 years then managing a gym for ~6 years.

At this point she has almost no accrued PTO. In January, she contracted viral meningitis (probably due to all the hours and stress) so she had to take a week off (doctor had stated 2 weeks minimum). She still put in about 40 hours that week from home, which is NOT easy when your head is exploding, but was docked the full 40 hours of PTO and went into the red. Now that tax season is over, they're back to a more reasonable 50 hours/week but the PTO issue continues to be a sore spot.

Yesterday in a staff meeting, the boss-man (not the owner, but the guy who runs the office) made a comment about getting stricter about PTO. One of my wife's coworkers had come in very early last Friday because he had a doctor's appointment at lunchtime. So he took a 2 hour lunch period but still worked well over 10 hours for the day, but they retroactively forced him to take a half day (4 hours) of PTO. This worries my wife because with summer baseball upcoming, she might need to leave the office at ~4pm on Friday to watch our son and had planned to make it up with extra hours during the week, but now realizes this is not going to be allowed. In the same breath, boss-man announced that he going to take this Thursday off because he had worked last Friday (he came on board with the agreement of the owner that he gets Fridays off). I have no problem with his Fridays arrangement since it's part of his contract, but the hypocrisy of "I can make my own schedule but you have no flexibility at all" irks the shit out of me.

I've told her she needs to find a new job but with her relative inexperience in the industry she's hesitant to do so. She doesn't even like accounting but it's what her degree is in. Ironically she took the job initially because they convinced her that they really care about their employees but it sure doesn't seem that way.

Keep in mind these are professional people who are generally working half a dozen returns at a time, not a small retail establishment where someone not showing up makes the entire business short staffed. In my opinion, you should be judged by the job you do and as long as you're not ABUSING the flex time concept, there shouldn't be a problem - especially if you're going to expect/demand 80-100 hours a week for a third of the year.

Does anyone else work for a company like this?

Move to Utah, we dont have nearly enough accountants here. And you are treated like a God.

 

[slag]

thats theft of hours. she needs to report this.

Not necessarily. If your company has no official work from home policy and you log on from home and work, they don't have to count it as work.

Also, if you are forced to take 4 hours PTO if you leave at 4 pm instead of 5 pm, why wouldn't you just leave at 1 pm and use the full 4 hours? Makes no sense.

 

[PenguinPower]

Not necessarily. If your company has no official work from home policy and you log on from home and work, they don't have to count it as work.

Also, if you are forced to take 4 hours PTO if you leave at 4 pm instead of 5 pm, why wouldn't you just leave at 1 pm and use the full 4 hours? Makes no sense.

Not even a little true. If an exempt associate performs any work, they must be paid in full for the day except for valid partial-day deduction reasons (usually FMLA) and then they must be paid for the time they actually spent working.

 

[TwiceOver]

Personal Health>Family>Work.

We are told that regularly at my job. You have vacation to use, use it... whenever.

 

[rh71]

Few hours, no problem. We're at home anyway. We're mostly deadline based, which is the best part. I have 3-4 weeks vacation left over every year because I've never really had to use days and so I am off most of December.

 

[SearchMaster]

Also, if you are forced to take 4 hours PTO if you leave at 4 pm instead of 5 pm, why wouldn't you just leave at 1 pm and use the full 4 hours? Makes no sense.

This was a "new" policy announced earlier this week, which prompted this thread. My wife had previously not taken much time off at all - the week long meningitis absence that she worked through anyway but still lost her PTO, and a couple of instances where she had meetings at our son's school that essentially consumed an afternoon (so 4 hours PTO was warranted). The problem arose when her co-worker came in early, worked (more than) a full day, but was still docked 4 hours PTO retroactively because he took a 2 hour lunch for a doctor's appointment. This egregious behavior apparently incensed the head-honcho enough that he docked the PTO and announced that there will be no flexibility at all in the future, and if you are not in the office or at a client site between 9am and 5pm with a 1 hour lunch break, then you will be docked 4 hours of PTO - period. She had been hoping to leave ~4pm on some Fridays this summer, if necessary, to catch some baseball tournaments (we don't even know what the schedules will be yet).

 

[jlee]

Another vote for "report them." If they're doing all this for her, imagine what the Dept of Labor will find if they actually investigate...

 

[Ns1]

This was a "new" policy announced earlier this week, which prompted this thread. My wife had previously not taken much time off at all - the week long meningitis absence that she worked through anyway but still lost her PTO, and a couple of instances where she had meetings at our son's school that essentially consumed an afternoon (so 4 hours PTO was warranted). The problem arose when her co-worker came in early, worked (more than) a full day, but was still docked 4 hours PTO retroactively because he took a 2 hour lunch for a doctor's appointment. This egregious behavior apparently incensed the head-honcho enough that he docked the PTO and announced that there will be no flexibility at all in the future, and if you are not in the office or at a client site between 9am and 5pm with a 1 hour lunch break, then you will be docked 4 hours of PTO - period. She had been hoping to leave ~4pm on some Fridays this summer, if necessary, to catch some baseball tournaments (we don't even know what the schedules will be yet).

I see a company that can't attract real talent and only attracts those that need a line on their resume or H1B visas. Nobody should put up with that shit in this current economy.

 

[TheGardener]

I went to work for a major conglomerate after graduating from college. My manager's manager was the biggest ahole I ever met. After working there a year, I was confronted for taking an extra 15 minutes for lunch. They wanted to know when I would make the time up.

 

[shimpster]

How strict is your PTO policy?

Our PTA policy is relatively lax, unless sum1 decides to take a day off or accumulates more than 4 hours per month

 

[kranky]

I had a thought this morning that maybe they're acting the way they are to prevent anyone from interviewing elsewhere. If you are pretty much bound to the office from 9-5 every day, it's pretty hard to find time to look for another job. Seems self-defeating, but some people can't see the forest for the trees.

Her co-worker who got docked the half-day for seeing the doctor is going to talk to the owner today. The owner is a good guy and oblivious to a lot of the goings-on with the day-to-day stuff (one of those genius types who doesn't relate that well with others sometimes) and if changes aren't made accordingly they might find themselves with an empty office soon. They only have a few accountants (3 IIRC) so losing 1 would be a big loss, losing 2 would be potentially devastating to the business.

Wondering if there is an update on this.

 

[Spineshank]

I know many people in the accounting business. This is basically your typical small firm mentality.

 

[SearchMaster]

Wondering if there is an update on this.

Actually there is a small update

The owner credited back those hours to him, and my wife got some PTO returned for the week she had meningitis. Though she likely worked a 40 hour week that week (she wasn't really tracking hours and was somewhat off-and-on due to her illness), she billed only 19 hours and that's what was credited back to her. So while not perfect, she does finally have a little bit of breathing room with her bank of hours.

There seems to be a dichotomy between the owner and the manager. For the most part the owner is a good guy but doesn't want to be bothered with the day-to-day stuff and leaves that to the manager. On most aspects the manager does a good job but his "clock nazi" approach is leading to disgruntled employees. One of the employees is sitting for a portion of the CPA exam soon. The exam itself takes like 3+ hours, and requires 1+ hours to get there and 1+ hours to get back. The manager told him that if he is being "allowed" 4 hours total for zero PTO penalty, any more than that will result in a 4 hour PTO subtraction. Of course if he gets his CPA, his billing rate goes up for the firm which is an obvious tangible benefit for the company.

I don't know how long my wife will be there. When she spoke to the owner, he was very complimentary of her and her work, and said that he had received MANY positive comments from customers that she was the only one they had worked with who communicated well and was pleasant to deal with. He also said she was one of two people they were sending to career-based conferences this year because they see so much growth potential in her. In the meantime, her sister (who owns a company) has an opening and would very much like her to consider it. Pay is the same, but it's a significantly longer drive. She'd likely be able to primarily WFH once she gets settled, and they would have the flexibility to allow her to keep hours that beat the traffic patterns.

 

[cbrunny]

work from home for your sister or work in a clock-watching poorly-managed office..

tough one.

 

[NutBucket]

Working for family isn't always all its cracked up to be....just sayin'.

 

[SearchMaster]

Working for family isn't always all its cracked up to be....just sayin'.

There would be zero issues with this arrangement. If I had an inkling that there would be, I would strongly discourage her from considering it. But it would be a very mutually beneficial arrangement for both sides. Once trained in the industry, I could foresee my wife taking a lot of the duties off her sister's shoulders which is something she's longed for since they started the company. Plus her sister and the company have been screwed over by shoddy accounting in the past, with unexpected 6 figure tax bills and the like.

I think she'll end up doing it. They're still discussing the WFH aspect...her sister trusts her work ethic completely but has to discuss with her husband and a couple others whether it would be a sore spot with the rest of the office ("she only gets to WFH because she's her sister"). She's also a little hesitant from just some personal pride stuff, and not feeling like she can't have a career outside her family. But her sister and brother-in-law are outstanding people, excellent employers, and outside of the economy dip a few years ago their business has a long stable track record.

 

[Jeff7]

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