How stable are Hackintoshes, really?

[suklee]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Yes, she would. A 20" iMac, even used/refurbished from Apple, is $1000. We could build a system that is faster and better in every way for around $600.

Did you factor in EFI-X and a retail copy of OS X?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: fatpat268

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: fatpat268
Going the EFI-X route

*****

Comes out to $900 and some change, plus shipping of course. You could go for a cheaper case, a lesser video card, or a dual core processor and save yourself about $100. Either way, it's more expensive than your typical hackintosh, but at least you can update like a normal mac.

Well, not really - you have to run EFI-X Firmware Updates before certain System Software Updates for OS X. Just keep that in mind! 🙂

Didn't know that, but still seems like a safer route if you keep up with fw updates.

Yah much easier - download the firmware update, reboot, then download the Apple update, reboot. Easy peasy 🙂

 

[Zaap]

Don't sweat all the drama. First- tell your Mom that it's a Hackintosh, and what the ins and outs are about system updates. Second- install more than one partition with OSX. If for some reason your mom runs a system update and calls you "it won't boot" tell her, "Okay, now boot from the second partition, and continue working right where you left off." That is- if she somehow doesn't get the 'don't update!' instructions, and you prefer unnecessary drama.

In the other thread I posted not long ago about how I've checked in with 20 or so people I've built hacks for over the past year- most of whom aren't overly computer saavy. Not one of them is having any problems (other than needing my help to update to the latest OSX since I built the hack for them) and all still rave about how much they love their machines. In my view, the Hackintosh track record has proven itself- just requires a few different rules from a normal Mac is all.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Kai920

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Yes, she would. A 20" iMac, even used/refurbished from Apple, is $1000. We could build a system that is faster and better in every way for around $600.

Did you factor in EFI-X and a retail copy of OS X?

Oh yea, and a monitor.

http://store.apple.com/us/brow.../specialdeals/mac/imac

$1200 for a 2.8GHz 24" iMac. The 24" has an IPS panel (not cheap to get standalone) that will be great for your mom and her photo work. 2GB RAM (cheap to upgrade) and a 320GB hard drive, which really should be just fine.

Build the Hackintosh, don't build the hackintosh, but the $1200 refurbed imac is a pretty good system especially when you consider the cost of a 24" IPS monitor.

 

[Zaap]

It begs the question what monitor does she already have, since she has a G4. That's a consideration for a Hack or a Mini. If it's an Apple monitor with an ADC connection, they're a PITA to adopt to DVI. (I had a client that needed the adapter for a Hack- I found one on ebay for $50). If it's a standard connection monitor, and she's happy with it, then no problem.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: VinylxScratches
If she gets a iMac she will use it for 4+ years. Upgrade the ram a year or so after it will still fly. I'm running on a 1.83 Core2Duo and my Mac still feels fast. I have 4 gigs of ram. You have no idea what Snow Leopard has. What if Apple decides to lock down OS X. She's doing work. If she's generating money, it's worth it just to have a product that's made to be the way the makers intended it to be. Too many people are fixated on upgrading crap in a PC on this forum.

Agreed. This is the number one reason I just let my PC sit there being useless when it died on me over a year ago. I finally put it back in the box last month and I don't even know if it's worth the effort to sell. I loved the Shuttle systems I had been running, but the hobby of tweaking and upgrading a system just got old and expensive. I used to get excited about building a new system for friends/family etc and now it just feels like a total pain in the ass.

 

[sjwaste]

Refurb macs are definitely the way to go. They're practically new, just in a different box.

Also, if this machine is being used for work and generating profit, don't you think it might be a bit better to actually comply with the license terms of the OS? I can see Hacks as a hobby, but if the system will be used as a tool to make money, there's an ethical issue with using OSX contrary to the license terms that you're agreeing to when you install it.

 

[VinylxScratches]

Originally posted by: Injury

Originally posted by: VinylxScratches
If she gets a iMac she will use it for 4+ years. Upgrade the ram a year or so after it will still fly. I'm running on a 1.83 Core2Duo and my Mac still feels fast. I have 4 gigs of ram. You have no idea what Snow Leopard has. What if Apple decides to lock down OS X. She's doing work. If she's generating money, it's worth it just to have a product that's made to be the way the makers intended it to be. Too many people are fixated on upgrading crap in a PC on this forum.

Agreed. This is the number one reason I just let my PC sit there being useless when it died on me over a year ago. I finally put it back in the box last month and I don't even know if it's worth the effort to sell. I loved the Shuttle systems I had been running, but the hobby of tweaking and upgrading a system just got old and expensive. I used to get excited about building a new system for friends/family etc and now it just feels like a total pain in the ass.

Yeah, same here.

Originally posted by: sjwaste
Refurb macs are definitely the way to go. They're practically new, just in a different box.

Also, if this machine is being used for work and generating profit, don't you think it might be a bit better to actually comply with the license terms of the OS? I can see Hacks as a hobby, but if the system will be used as a tool to make money, there's an ethical issue with using OSX contrary to the license terms that you're agreeing to when you install it.

I bought a refurbished Mac Mini 1.83GHz. I've had my Macbook that's the same speed for 2 years now. Both feel just fine for my uses and I'd say I'm a power user. I think I can get 2 years more out of these two computers before I upgrade to a iMac and Macbook Pro.

 

[TheStu]

For me the useful life of my MacBook seems to have been 3 years. I suppose I could get another year out of it, but Snow Leopard won't really bring anything to the table that my system can use (32bit instead of 64bit, no dedicated card, trackpad too old to get the new gestures) but I know that my sister will get a couple of years of use out of it.

If I hadn't built my Hack and clocked it up to 3.25GHz then I might feel differently. But my hack feels now like what my MacBook felt like 3 years ago, orders of magnitude faster than what I was used to.

 

[sourceninja]

In all honesty, I just wouldn't want a box sitting under my desk. It's all iMacs or MacBooks for me.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: TheStu
You are dead set on building this thing, just build the damn thing already. We have warned you of the potential risks, you are ok with them. Build the thing, save your money and call it a day.

I see why you feel that way, and I probably should have changed my tone at some point. But right now I really am just curious as to how well EFI-X works, because I don't know.

I don't know if I posted this before but I am definitely, definitely not going the standard OSx86 route. It'll either be EFI-X or just a normal Mac. And the difference will not be price but features. An EFI-X machine will be the same price as a refurb iMac, but it'll be able to have a good amount of internal storage, upgradability, and a faster processor.

To answer another question, she currently only has a 22" Apple Cinema Display, yes, the ADC model. So that'll have to get replaced so she can use a standard DVI monitor. She also has access to a 20" LCD that I'll try to convince my dad to let her use (my dad likes to hoard monitors), and maybe she can pick up a bigger and nicer IPS panel to use as a primary monitor. She likes having two screens so she can store all her palettes somewhere.

To answer yet another question, yes, if she does get a Mac, it will probably be a refurb. Either an iMac or a Mini. The Mini's main advantage is that it can use bigger internal hard drives (that is, you can actually upgrade the internal hard drive to 500 GB, whereas most iMacs are locked at 320 GB and can't be upgraded easily).

I am not too concerned about OS X's EULA because EULAs are not enforceable and are pretty much arbitrary. If I buy a copy I will not have any moral issues installing it on a non-Apple machine. Now, there would be a moral issue if I were to pirate it, which I will not do.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: TheStu
You are dead set on building this thing, just build the damn thing already. We have warned you of the potential risks, you are ok with them. Build the thing, save your money and call it a day.

I see why you feel that way, and I probably should have changed my tone at some point. But right now I really am just curious as to how well EFI-X works, because I don't know.

I don't know if I posted this before but I am definitely, definitely not going the standard OSx86 route. It'll either be EFI-X or just a normal Mac. And the difference will not be price but features. An EFI-X machine will be the same price as a refurb iMac, but it'll be able to have a good amount of internal storage, upgradability, and a faster processor.

To answer another question, she currently only has a 22" Apple Cinema Display, yes, the ADC model. So that'll have to get replaced so she can use a standard DVI monitor. She also has access to a 20" LCD that I'll try to convince my dad to let her use (my dad likes to hoard monitors), and maybe she can pick up a bigger and nicer IPS panel to use as a primary monitor. She likes having two screens so she can store all her palettes somewhere.

To answer yet another question, yes, if she does get a Mac, it will probably be a refurb. Either an iMac or a Mini. The Mini's main advantage is that it can use bigger internal hard drives (that is, you can actually upgrade the internal hard drive to 500 GB, whereas most iMacs are locked at 320 GB and can't be upgraded easily).

I am not too concerned about OS X's EULA because EULAs are not enforceable and are pretty much arbitrary. If I buy a copy I will not have any moral issues installing it on a non-Apple machine. Now, there would be a moral issue if I were to pirate it, which I will not do.

As kaido pointed out, EFI-X is mostly foolproof, you just have to update its firmware from time to time, and of course it is expensive.

I think you are over playing the upgradeability aspect of building it yourself. If she gets 4 years of use out of it, how upgradeable is it really going to be at that point? Unless you go i7 you will probably not be able to find a socket 775 CPU anywhere at that point, and even i7 could be tricky. DDR2 might be cheap, but if you kick her up to say, 8GB now (or even 4GB) she will be fine. Do you really, really think she will need more than a 320GB hard drive?

And the graphics card? Considering how long it is going to take for Adobe to get CS up to 64bit (CS6 at the earliest I have heard) I am not sure how quickly they are implementing GPU offloading for OS X.

So, in 4 years time, you are more or less building her a new computer, and unable to sell her old one for much. As opposed to getting a Mac where it will hold its value relatively well.

Like I said, build the Hack, don't build the hack. But you seemed to come in here deadset on it initially anyway. And we have advised you of the potential risks (which are greatly minimized with some diligence) and the potential downsides (no unified warranty, unable to take it to the Apple store, violation of EULA for professional work), so there you go, do your thing, but do let us know how it turns out.

 

[AstroManLuca]

No, you're right. It's difficult for me to be unbiased (though the same could be said of many people here). You know, given the fact that I'm not even sure when my mom will eventually get a new computer (or if she'll need one; her freelance work has been so slow lately she's looking for a regular job now too), I am just going to take all the information into account and we'll have to come up with a decision when she's actually ready. Maybe if Apple updates their machines again soon it'll push us in that direction. My brother and I should probably experiment a bit with OSx86 anyway since neither of us has really done it before.

I know that a regular Mac is probably the best choice, but there are certain advantages to these other options that I can't just ignore. Plus, I've heard such wildly varied opinions on how well OS X works on non-Apple hardware, from people claiming it's a nightmarish hack to others saying it's super easy. It's hard to know the truth of the situation without any experience myself.

 

[Zaap]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Plus, I've heard such wildly varied opinions on how well OS X works on non-Apple hardware, from people claiming it's a nightmarish hack to others saying it's super easy. It's hard to know the truth of the situation without any experience myself.

Like Kaido said, stick with the right hardware, and it's as 'easy' as it's going to get. I think most of the 'nightmarish' opinions are from people that insist on picking oddball parts to try and hack, and/or people with an axe to grind against using non-Apple-hardware to run OSX (which is a funny oxymoron to me, since ALL hardware really is "non-Apple" including Apple's).

If you're really curious about EFI-X, check the Tekzilla video link posted on the current page of the Hackintosh 101 thread. They do a pretty good run through of what EFI-X entails, and of course the hardware list is pretty set.

Since you've got to replace so many things including the monitor, it's really a toss up at this point. Price will be nearly the same, but there are clear advantages/disadvantages either way. Mostly it depends on what your Mom actually needs and wants.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
No, you're right. It's difficult for me to be unbiased (though the same could be said of many people here). You know, given the fact that I'm not even sure when my mom will eventually get a new computer (or if she'll need one; her freelance work has been so slow lately she's looking for a regular job now too), I am just going to take all the information into account and we'll have to come up with a decision when she's actually ready. Maybe if Apple updates their machines again soon it'll push us in that direction. My brother and I should probably experiment a bit with OSx86 anyway since neither of us has really done it before.

This is absolutely what you need to do. Before having your mom sink any money into this, you really ought to attempt an OSX86 build yourself. This really should help you familiarize yourself with what is going on with Intel macs and OSX86, help you decide if it's right for your mom, and if EFI-X is the route you want to take.

I know that a regular Mac is probably the best choice, but there are certain advantages to these other options that I can't just ignore. Plus, I've heard such wildly varied opinions on how well OS X works on non-Apple hardware, from people claiming it's a nightmarish hack to others saying it's super easy. It's hard to know the truth of the situation without any experience myself.

It all depends 100% on the hardware. The hackintosh I built last weekend with a Gigabyte GA945GCMX-S2 was completely painless. Followed this guide and even updated to 10.5.7 with the combo update: http://www.insanelymac.com/for...x.php?showtopic=122550

However, be aware that some hardware just won't work. My first OSX86 build was with an AMD Sempron, and that build was a nightmare. Not so much because of the Sempron iself, but because of some of the integrated stuff on the mobo.

 

[JSt0rm]

the fact that she is using it for freelance work means you should probably pony up for the real thing. If she has down time waiting for you to fix her mac while she can't work thats not gonna work out to well. I have been building computers forever and installed a hacked 10.4 just for kicks but I own a macpro and a macbook both for freelance work. i couldn't afford to miss deadlines because I wanted to save even 1000 dollars. We call that tripping over dollars to pick up nickels 🙂

forgot to add she can write the thing off

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
the fact that she is using it for freelance work means you should probably pony up for the real thing. If she has down time waiting for you to fix her mac while she can't work thats not gonna work out to well. I have been building computers forever and installed a hacked 10.4 just for kicks but I own a macpro and a macbook both for freelance work. i couldn't afford to miss deadlines because I wanted to save even 1000 dollars. We call that tripping over dollars to pick up nickels 🙂

forgot to add she can write the thing off

I don't have a Mac, but I agree. If this is for work, then she needs to go with an Apple. It's supported, it has a warranty, and it can receive updates. When it comes to work, downtime is unacceptable.

 

[Ichigo]

Why the hell is upgradability important? You said that she's been using a 2000 computer for 6-7 years. Spend the money to get her a computer certified under warranty by Apple, and call it a day. The time you save her might even pay for the difference.

Buy the refurb 24" iMac. Skimping on a display in her line of work isn't being frugal; it's being cheap.

 

[Zaap]

Geeze. How about letting him and his mother make up thier own minds.

The conformist nature of Apple fanbois is really annoying.

 

[Nothinman]

The conformist nature of Apple fanbois is really annoying.

Thinking his mother should have a system with a warranty and can be supported by someone other than her son is conformist? I always just considered stuff like that common sense...

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

The conformist nature of Apple fanbois is really annoying.

Thinking his mother should have a system with a warranty and can be supported by someone other than her son is conformist? I always just considered stuff like that common sense...

Yeah, but at the same time, if her son is going to be around all the time, it's much easier to troubleshoot a PC-based computer, than have to take your iMac into the Genius Bar for repairs. My friend's iMac had problems with both the webcam and the DVD drive breaking in the past year, and she's had to travel a long distance to go to an Apple Store to get them fixed. Convenience in terms of maintenance is a key idea here as well, I think.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: Nothinman

The conformist nature of Apple fanbois is really annoying.

Thinking his mother should have a system with a warranty and can be supported by someone other than her son is conformist? I always just considered stuff like that common sense...

Yeah, but at the same time, if her son is going to be around all the time, it's much easier to troubleshoot a PC-based computer, than have to take your iMac into the Genius Bar for repairs. My friend's iMac had problems with both the webcam and the DVD drive breaking in the past year, and she's had to travel a long distance to go to an Apple Store to get them fixed. Convenience in terms of maintenance is a key idea here as well, I think.

In this case, the Apple store is 20 miles away.

 

[VinylxScratches]

Originally posted by: Zaap
Geeze. How about letting him and his mother make up thier own minds.

The conformist nature of Apple fanbois is really annoying.

Did you really type this out without thinking?

 

[Nothinman]

Yeah, but at the same time, if her son is going to be around all the time, it's much easier to troubleshoot a PC-based computer, than have to take your iMac into the Genius Bar for repairs. My friend's iMac had problems with both the webcam and the DVD drive breaking in the past year, and she's had to travel a long distance to go to an Apple Store to get them fixed. Convenience in terms of maintenance is a key idea here as well, I think.

Maybe I'm being naive here but the only real difference between an Apple branded Mac and a hackintosh is EFI, the hardware is all the same. And a DVD drive or webcam problem should pretty much the same in both cases. Maybe the webcam would be worse if it's one that OS X doesn't support, but that's going to be just as bad to troubleshoot on a hackintosh.

In this case, the Apple store is 20 miles away.

Which I personally would consider far away. Hell, according to Google Maps I've got one ~5 miles away and I'd be annoyed at having to go there just because of the area it's in.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Yeah, but at the same time, if her son is going to be around all the time, it's much easier to troubleshoot a PC-based computer, than have to take your iMac into the Genius Bar for repairs. My friend's iMac had problems with both the webcam and the DVD drive breaking in the past year, and she's had to travel a long distance to go to an Apple Store to get them fixed. Convenience in terms of maintenance is a key idea here as well, I think.

Maybe I'm being naive here but the only real difference between an Apple branded Mac and a hackintosh is EFI, the hardware is all the same. And a DVD drive or webcam problem should pretty much the same in both cases. Maybe the webcam would be worse if it's one that OS X doesn't support, but that's going to be just as bad to troubleshoot on a hackintosh.

In this case, the Apple store is 20 miles away.

Which I personally would consider far away. Hell, according to Google Maps I've got one ~5 miles away and I'd be annoyed at having to go there just because of the area it's in.

With the hackintosh, the son would have to pop the side off, undo a few screws and pull the offending part. Not so easy to do with the iMac since you need magnets and suction cups to remove the screen and get access to the rest of the system.