How stable are Hackintoshes, really?

[AstroManLuca]

My mom has been a Mac user all her life and does freelance work using mainly Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. She is not particularly computer literate, though, and is considering replacing her VERY old Power Mac G4 with an iMac or Mac Mini. Now, my brother and I are both PC guys and we hate to see my mom, who doesn't have a lot of money to spare on a new computer, buying the obsolete and overpriced hardware that Apple provides. But we do recognize that she needs a Mac - Windows is not an option. So we're debating whether a Hackintosh would be stable enough for her.

We live relatively close by and could provide some tech support, but I'm afraid that she might get some random crashes or simply be unable to fix any problems herself. On the other hand, it would save her a lot of money because she wouldn't have to upgrade her hardware as often and she'd be able to pay significantly less for better and faster components.

I'm not asking about anything really specific (there are plenty of Hackintosh threads for reference), just wondering how stable it would be if my brother and I set the whole thing up for her.

 

[TheStu]

A: Would she really save that much money if she went the hackintosh route over a 20" iMac? Considering that you probably have to build her an entire system from the ground up I mean.
B: My hackintosh has been quite stable except for one little catch. I can't update before vetting it first. Any update I install (especially something like 10.5.x) could break functionality and I simply don't have the know how to fix that aside from re-formatting. And since you and your brother are both self proclaimed PC guys, then you might not have the knowhow either.
C: Is there an Apple store near you?

 

[Nothinman]

Any OS update has the potential to render the machine useless since it could undo the hacks that you're using to make OS X run on a non-Apple box. Do you really want her not updating her software?

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: TheStu
A: Would she really save that much money if she went the hackintosh route over a 20" iMac? Considering that you probably have to build her an entire system from the ground up I mean.

Yes, she would. A 20" iMac, even used/refurbished from Apple, is $1000. We could build a system that is faster and better in every way for around $600. I know it doesn't seem like much but my mom has had trouble getting good work lately and a few hundred dollars is important. Not only that but it would last longer because we could easily upgrade things like the hard drive, display, even the processor.

Originally posted by: TheStuB: My hackintosh has been quite stable except for one little catch. I can't update before vetting it first. Any update I install (especially something like 10.5.x) could break functionality and I simply don't have the know how to fix that aside from re-formatting. And since you and your brother are both self proclaimed PC guys, then you might not have the knowhow either.

This is the big question. Are you saying even little things like security updates and iTunes updates require a serious effort to install, or are those just point updates? Will they come through software update and require a big ordeal to install? I was thinking that, since OS X point updates only show up once every few months, we could just come out there and help her install those when necessary and otherwise leave it alone. If it requires more effort than that, it might be a bad option.

Originally posted by: TheStuC: Is there an Apple store near you?

Not too far. There's one about 20 miles from them, right between where I live and where they do.

 

[secretanchitman]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: TheStu
A: Would she really save that much money if she went the hackintosh route over a 20" iMac? Considering that you probably have to build her an entire system from the ground up I mean.

Yes, she would. A 20" iMac, even used/refurbished from Apple, is $1000. We could build a system that is faster and better in every way for around $600. I know it doesn't seem like much but my mom has had trouble getting good work lately and a few hundred dollars is important. Not only that but it would last longer because we could easily upgrade things like the hard drive, display, even the processor.

Originally posted by: TheStuB: My hackintosh has been quite stable except for one little catch. I can't update before vetting it first. Any update I install (especially something like 10.5.x) could break functionality and I simply don't have the know how to fix that aside from re-formatting. And since you and your brother are both self proclaimed PC guys, then you might not have the knowhow either.

This is the big question. Are you saying even little things like security updates and iTunes updates require a serious effort to install, or are those just point updates? Will they come through software update and require a big ordeal to install? I was thinking that, since OS X point updates only show up once every few months, we could just come out there and help her install those when necessary and otherwise leave it alone. If it requires more effort than that, it might be a bad option.

Originally posted by: TheStuC: Is there an Apple store near you?

Not too far. There's one about 20 miles from them, right between where I live and where they do.

its usually the major os updates, like 10.5.x releases. the point to point releases of updated software is okay i believe...

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
I'm not asking about anything really specific (there are plenty of Hackintosh threads for reference), just wondering how stable it would be if my brother and I set the whole thing up for her.

Stability depends on 2 things:

1. Choosing the right parts (that support existing, stable drivers)
2. Training her how to use it proper (not running updates, etc.)

The bane to a Hackintosh's existance, as mentioned, is OS updates. If she can live with 10.5.7 indefinitely, and she can handle NOT pushing the Software Update button, then a Hackintosh is a pretty good machine. I built my mom a Hackintosh and she uses it every day - she knows not to run system updates and she's happy using her current software as-is.

So, if you're willing to buy the right parts, and she's able to not make a mistake and run updates on accident, then yes, a Hackintosh is a stable machine. I'd recommend an ES2L board (MicroATX, $53), 4 gigs of RAM, an E5200 at minimum (2.5ghz dual-core), and a 1TB Samsung F1 hard drive (fast/quiet/runs cool/huge capacity). I would also recommend the following:

1. Setup a secondary internal backup drive for Time Machine (automatic hourly backup, this way you can restore her quickly if she messes up her system)
2. Clone your fresh install to a partition on the backup drive, alongside Time Machine, so you can have a bootable, ready-to-go backup if needed - saves lots of time vs. reinstalling the OS + updates + drivers, and it only takes up about 10 or 15 gigs.

 

[Kaido]

Also keep in mind, she will have ZERO tech support. Apple won't help her, and she can't take her machine to an Apple Store for repair or help. She'll be completely on her own and dependent on YOU for support. Either that is a problem, or it isn't. If it is, get her a Mac with a warranty.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Awesome, thanks for the explanation. We haven't decided what to do yet but those are important things to consider. As it stands, she's used to not getting any support from Apple since she's been using a computer from 2000 for the past 6 or 7 years.

One more question, though - what about third-party software updates? Are those just fine? Can she update Illustrator and Photoshop without issue or will she have to avoid updates for those as well?

 

[zacharace]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
One more question, though - what about third-party software updates? Are those just fine? Can she update Illustrator and Photoshop without issue or will she have to avoid updates for those as well?

Are you talking small, incremental updates or new version releases? I think that you should be fine with anything other than OS updates (assuming the app works on a Hackintosh in the first place); someone like Kaido would be of more assistance.

 

[alent1234]

iMacs are nothing more than laptops in a desktop case. My guess is they use a custom motherboard designed by nvidia. being laptops they are very power efficient. unless she actually uses the nice 3D card you will buy her she will spend the difference between a real mac and a hackintosh in higher electric bills. if you want to compare prices, the closest PC to an iMac is a Dell Studio Hybrid. and it's about the same price as an iMac.

 

[sourceninja]

I talked my mom into a mini. It does everything she needs, was cheap, cute on her desk, and she already had a nice 24 inch monitor.

Honestly, if your not a photoshop/3d rendering whore or play video games then you will never need anything bigger then an min or an imac which IMHO are reasonably priced.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Awesome, thanks for the explanation. We haven't decided what to do yet but those are important things to consider. As it stands, she's used to not getting any support from Apple since she's been using a computer from 2000 for the past 6 or 7 years.

One more question, though - what about third-party software updates? Are those just fine? Can she update Illustrator and Photoshop without issue or will she have to avoid updates for those as well?

I've never run into a problem with third-party software updates.

Also, Snow Leopard is compatible with Hackintoshes, so we're good for the next OS release...for now

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: alent1234
iMacs are nothing more than laptops in a desktop case. My guess is they use a custom motherboard designed by nvidia. being laptops they are very power efficient. unless she actually uses the nice 3D card you will buy her she will spend the difference between a real mac and a hackintosh in higher electric bills. if you want to compare prices, the closest PC to an iMac is a Dell Studio Hybrid. and it's about the same price as an iMac.

Higher electric bills won't have much of an impact. She might save a couple bucks a month, perhaps working out to $100-$200 over the life of the machine... but she'll save money anyway because you can get so much more computer for less money if you don't buy a Mac.

I've looked at the Studio Hybrid and compared it to the Mini but that is irrelevant because she doesn't need a small form factor. Dell offers larger, cheaper desktops. Apple does not.

Originally posted by: sourceninja
I talked my mom into a mini. It does everything she needs, was cheap, cute on her desk, and she already had a nice 24 inch monitor.

Honestly, if your not a photoshop/3d rendering whore or play video games then you will never need anything bigger then an min or an imac which IMHO are reasonably priced.

Well, for one, she uses Photoshop and Illustrator for her work. Furthermore, no, Minis and iMacs are not reasonably priced. The reason they cost a lot is, like alent1234 said, they are basically laptops in desktop cases. They use expensive laptop components instead of cheap desktop ones. The 3.06 GHz CPU in the high-end iMac costs around $600 to purchase yourself, while a similar 3 GHz desktop CPU costs only $170. The end result, though, is a computer with a hardware loadout comparable to a $700 home-built desktop that costs $2,000. Meanwhile, the Mini (which costs $600) is slower than a desktop you could build yourself for $300. It might not be as small and elegant but that's not important.

 

[TheStu]

Can you run through your price list for us? I believe that you can build it for cheaper, but the reason I asked about the proximity of the Apple store is because with the Apple brand Mac comes the Apple brand warranty and with that warranty comes the ability to take it to the apple store to get support just 30 minutes after a problem happens. So it isn't just the imac /mini that she would be getting, it is the warranty and the piece of mind (for the both of you)

If you want to build her a hackintosh, then go right ahead, just make sure both you and she are aware that problem could crop up (so after installation, clone the drive and copy the efi thing, and then keep backing up to that drive in the event of failure). I am sure it will be a very fast system (my hackintosh screams in both Windows and OS X) but heck, you could spray paint a coat hanger silver, slap an apple sticker on it and it would probably be faster than her G4 PowerMac .

 

[Injury]

If it were me, the bottom line here is that if she depends on the machine for income and she's not capable of fixing it herself should a problem arise, the price difference is negligible at best.

 

[VinylxScratches]

She's doing work. A iMac should be her choice. Not a hacked computer that can potentially break at anytime because it is not made for OS X.

 

[AstroManLuca]

That's why I'm thinking of going the EFI-X route. I'm not too thrilled about her having to come to me even for relatively minor OS X updates, but EFI-X sounds pretty much effortless. Given how much more expensive iMacs are than computers with equal or better hardware AND much more upgrade potential, I'm not inclined to recommend she buy a Mac unless there's a really good reason EFI-X would be a bad idea.

 

[VinylxScratches]

If she gets a iMac she will use it for 4+ years. Upgrade the ram a year or so after it will still fly. I'm running on a 1.83 Core2Duo and my Mac still feels fast. I have 4 gigs of ram. You have no idea what Snow Leopard has. What if Apple decides to lock down OS X. She's doing work. If she's generating money, it's worth it just to have a product that's made to be the way the makers intended it to be. Too many people are fixated on upgrading crap in a PC on this forum.

 

[AstroManLuca]

There's nothing about an iMac that makes it inherently better or faster than a PC that my brother or I could build. Well, one thing, and that's perfect OS X compatibility. But as long as EFI-X does the same job, why is an iMac necessary? It's just spending more money for a pretty case and a slower processor. That's why I am asking what the disadvantages are to Hackintoshes and now EFI-X. I am pretty convinced that OSx86 probably isn't the way to go, since it's a bit too shaky for day-to-day use by someone who doesn't know enough about computers to fix it, but everything I've heard so far indicates that EFI-X is a great and easy solution. As long as my brother and I pick out compatible parts and build the PC ourselves, she should be able to do the rest.

So yes, I understand the advantages Macs have but I don't see any reason to get one when I could get a much faster PC that'll last longer for less money than an iMac, even taking the cost of an EFI-X into account.

 

[VinylxScratches]

An all in one sleek design is a big advantage in my books.

 

[TheStu]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
There's nothing about an iMac that makes it inherently better or faster than a PC that my brother or I could build. Well, one thing, and that's perfect OS X compatibility. But as long as EFI-X does the same job, why is an iMac necessary? It's just spending more money for a pretty case and a slower processor. That's why I am asking what the disadvantages are to Hackintoshes and now EFI-X. I am pretty convinced that OSx86 probably isn't the way to go, since it's a bit too shaky for day-to-day use by someone who doesn't know enough about computers to fix it, but everything I've heard so far indicates that EFI-X is a great and easy solution. As long as my brother and I pick out compatible parts and build the PC ourselves, she should be able to do the rest.

So yes, I understand the advantages Macs have but I don't see any reason to get one when I could get a much faster PC that'll last longer for less money than an iMac, even taking the cost of an EFI-X into account.

You are dead set on building this thing, just build the damn thing already. We have warned you of the potential risks, you are ok with them. Build the thing, save your money and call it a day.

 

[VinylxScratches]

Have fun supporting your Mom when the thing takes a crap because of a update. Especially when your Mom has a project due or something.

 

[fatpat268]

Going the EFI-X route

EFI-X $190
OSX 10.5.6 Leopard $103.49
Samsung DVD Burner $27
Antec 300 Case $60
OCZ 500W PSU $59 - $25 Rebate
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 $170
Gigabyte P45 Mobo $90
Nvidia GeForce 9800gt $103 - $15 Rebate
4GB DDR2 1066 $48
WD 500GB HD $50

Comes out to $900 and some change, plus shipping of course. You could go for a cheaper case, a lesser video card, or a dual core processor and save yourself about $100. Either way, it's more expensive than your typical hackintosh, but at least you can update like a normal mac.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: fatpat268
Going the EFI-X route

*****

Comes out to $900 and some change, plus shipping of course. You could go for a cheaper case, a lesser video card, or a dual core processor and save yourself about $100. Either way, it's more expensive than your typical hackintosh, but at least you can update like a normal mac.

Well, not really - you have to run EFI-X Firmware Updates before certain System Software Updates for OS X. Just keep that in mind!

 

[fatpat268]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: fatpat268
Going the EFI-X route

*****

Comes out to $900 and some change, plus shipping of course. You could go for a cheaper case, a lesser video card, or a dual core processor and save yourself about $100. Either way, it's more expensive than your typical hackintosh, but at least you can update like a normal mac.

Well, not really - you have to run EFI-X Firmware Updates before certain System Software Updates for OS X. Just keep that in mind!

Didn't know that, but still seems like a safer route if you keep up with fw updates.