How should I got for upgrading a X2 3800+ while keeping 2 raid arrays

[taltamir]

I want a CPU upgrade..
I just bought a new AM2 nforce 570 ultra based motherboard from asus (for the 6 SATA ports) 3 weeks ago or so to consolidate my computers (I am now running a raptor OS drive and 2 raid arrays all in one computer, and am gonna take the other apart for selling on ebay).

But I want to get a faster CPU to go with my prospective video card upgrade (i am gonna replace my 7900GS with either a 3870 or a GT).

But I am really worried about AMDs inability to provide umph... I was expecting phenom to be phenominal... and give me a nice AM2 socket upgrade. Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten the new motherboard. But with it sucking hardcore I really have to go with intel.

My options seem to be:
1. Suck it up and deal with what I have because things are bleak.
2. Buy a high end AMD part for very small improvement at lots of money.
3. Sell my new mobo, and buy a C2D setup... in which case, which motherboard could I get for running a system with two raid1 SATA arrays and a single SATA drive?


Cost plays a major part of it all, yes I have money to spend but I don't WANT to just throw it away. I have to get real tangible serious benefits to it... so if I spend 300$ on an upgrade I want my parts running twice as fast as before... not 20% faster (which is what I think I will be getting with AMD....)


Oh and if there is a board that can support a single SATA drive plus 3 raid 1 arrays (ie, 7 SATA ports) I would rather go that route... my 500 and 750GB arrays are practically full and I would love to build a 1TB array to go with them. (or 750GB again considering the current costs)

 

[MichaelD]

Not sure what you're asking for. Do you want a motherboard recommendation or a CPU recommendation?

I can tell you this: With software RAID arrays like you have, as soon as you move the drives to another motherboard, your data on the array is lost. Word to the wise; make backups!

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
Not sure what you're asking for. Do you want a motherboard recommendation or a CPU recommendation?

I am asking for BOTH... or rather... which one should I do? I have awesome 4GB of DDR2 800 ram (patriot). I have everything else... I just need either a CPU or a mobo+cpu... the question is WHICH should I do... Can I get a C2D + C2D mobo for ~300$ that gives about twice more oomph then what I currently have? Will a Windsor based 6400+ black edition be worth the 180$ it costs for that 50% clock increase but risk of excessive heat and power draw? (BTW I have a 500 watt nMedic PSU)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...pNo=3273141&CatId=2328

I feel I am pretty knowledgeable about AMD processors and nVidia GPU + Chipset products for the last few years, but I know NOTHING about AMD/Intel chipsets or intel CPUs... I just know that every now and then I checked and they were more expensive then going the AMD router (bang per buck that is)... but now I feel that 1. That has changed. 2. I need more bang regardless of buck and AMD can't deliver.

I bought this cpu for 130$ (I think that is what it was) almost a year and a half ago (my first CPU purchase over over 100$)... How the heck can I get a CPU twice as fast now?

Originally posted by: MichaelD
I can tell you this: With software RAID arrays like you have, as soon as you move the drives to another motherboard, your data on the array is lost. Word to the wise; make backups!

Not with RAID1... With raid5 flashing bios, resetting bios due to OC, loosing charge on battery, Moving to another mobo, having a cable come out accidently and plugging it back in, etc = risk of loosing data (you have to delete the array and then create an array with THE EXACT Same settings and order (for example, add drive 0.0, then 0.1, then 1.0, set the stripe size to be the same), and then when it asks if you want to clear hit no, if you hit yes the data is gone forever, if you make the WRONG settings or order then data gets corrupted).

But with RAID1 I can freely move it anywhere I please. And if I want I can just plug a singe drive in and it works as a single drive, and then add a second drive later, tell it to do raid1 and use the data on drive A (which it will then copy to drive B).
I took a raid1 array from an nforce4 mobo and put it in an nforce2 mobo and it just detected it.
Then after building a new raid1 array in the nforce4 mobo and decommission both computers I took the two raid arrays from the nforce2 and nforce4 mobos and put them in a new nforce5 mobo and it just detected them and worked. All automatic with 0 config problems or risk to data...

RAID1 = two drives of exact same size with the exact same content, perfect copy of the same file...

There is also a huge performance advantage... Raid5 requires very expensive hardware controllers for reasonable speed.
Raid1 = twice the read speed of a single drive, same write speed as a single drive (minus about 1% for both operations)

 

[DrMrLordX]

A 6400+ overclocked to 3.5 ghz would be a significant improvement over what you have now unless you already have that 3800+ overclocked to 3 ghz or so.

 

[taltamir]

I am currently running at 2ghz stock.

I haven't even considering the over clocking potential on my current CPU. Is there some way to unlock it or would I have to oc through FSB?

I am currently running stock heatsink and fan.
I am not very comfortable with increasing voltage/fsb. I have no beef with increasing multiplier.

I do however have little spare time and I make good money... So paying lots extra for a better fan (50+$ vs stock that comes free with cpu), paying more for electricity, and spending HOURS getting alittle bit more power (tweaking settings and running tests) would have been a great thing to do in highschool. But not it makes more sense for me to order a faster part to begin with.

Anyways is 3.5 even realistic on a 6400?

http://www.tomshardware.com/20...overclocker/page6.html

When is the next intel thing supposed to come out anyways? was it nehelem or somesuch?

 

[myocardia]

You do realize that a $40 heatsink is alot cheaper than a $180 processor that comes with no heatsink, don't you? Which AM2 motherboard do you have?

 

[taltamir]

My current CPU is stepping F2...
My motherboard is Asus M2N-E
http://www.asus.com/products.a...model=1181&modelmenu=1

How much more performance could I get out of this one with a 40$ heatsink (compared to my stock one)?

What if I got a 180$ processor that comes with no heatsink and use my current heatsink for it?


Also, I notice that the C2D seem to have FSB of 1033 and 1333... I am gonna have to buy new ram if I want one of those right? Or will it run in a 3:2 ratio? That might be the deciding factor. An E6750 for 190$ or a E6850 for 290$ sure looks sweet. Especially with a 100$ mobo and about 2 times the performance of what I currently have... but replacing my awesome and expensive ddr2 ram for highly overpriced DDR3 ram (and I need 4GB of it) isn't hot sounding...

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Nah, you don't need new RAM for that... Intel has its FSB multiplied by 4, so those are really running at 266MHz and 333MHz respectively. Oh, and you can run in 2:3 mode AFAIK

 

[taltamir]

ok, thats very good news.

So the question is, what is a really good intel mobo chipset for only one pcie video slot? And are the pcie v2.0 comming out soon?

 

[NXIL]

I want a CPU upgrade.. .

Dear Tal,

for less than $300, I think staying with AM2, getting a 3.2 Ghz dual core X2, and firing it up with the new video card will work pretty well for you.

3.2 GHz X2 is about $180 at Newegg, includes the heat sink fan--and I like the AMD fan attachment arrangment a lot more than intel's....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...%2c517%3a33662&bop=And

The 3.2 GHz model is not listed at Tom's Hardware CPU comparo; however, the 3.0Ghz model is, and it holds its own against the E6750:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/...1&model2=873&chart=444

You can use the pull down list at top to compare various benchmarks. Yes, the Intel chip is better--but when you factor in price, which AMD has obviously done, AMD still does OK.

The insanely good Q6600 is about $290: above your budget, since you would need a new Mobo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115017

The E6750 is about $190:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115029

And, you could make the switch to a P35 Mobo with on board raid with one of these Mobos and just about stay under your 3 Franklin $ limit:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...%2c717%3a29253&bop=And

Anyway, AMD 6200 plus Mobo you have is very close to an E6750 and a new P35 mobo.

And while the AMD Quad Core is looking a bit tepid still:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819103226

It will do OK when it ramps up in speed, as it certainly will in the next few months:

http://www.tomshardware.com/20...es_its_web/page21.html

The Intel Quad core pummels it, sort of like Chuck Norris beating up, well, anyone:

http://www.tomshardware.com/20...es_its_web/page22.html

But, you are still talking dual core, and the 6400X2 should be fine for a while--and, you'll save some money, and be ready for another upgrade in a few months--lots of good stuff on its way, from both Green and Blue.

HTH,

NXIL

 

[taltamir]

thanks nxil, you make some excellent points. The cost on C2D is very attractive for a new build but since I already have a good AM2 mobo it is just not justified.
I just ordered an X2 6400+ from tiger direct. It was slightly cheaper then newegg, and they are shipping it from texas (and I live in texas) so it should arrive quickly.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Originally posted by: taltamir
I am currently running at 2ghz stock.

I haven't even considering the over clocking potential on my current CPU. Is there some way to unlock it or would I have to oc through FSB?

FSB. Should be good for an OC of anywhere from 2.5 -3.0 ghz depending on the chip, though with the stock HSF . . .

I am currently running stock heatsink and fan.
I am not very comfortable with increasing voltage/fsb. I have no beef with increasing multiplier.

I do however have little spare time and I make good money... So paying lots extra for a better fan (50+$ vs stock that comes free with cpu), paying more for electricity, and spending HOURS getting alittle bit more power (tweaking settings and running tests) would have been a great thing to do in highschool. But not it makes more sense for me to order a faster part to begin with.

Then buying a 6400+ was a good idea. You're looking at a good jump in performance (more than 20%). Scaling won't be perfect unless you run your memory 50% faster as well while maintaining the same latency, but you should still get a nice speed boost going to a 6400+.

Anyways is 3.5 even realistic on a 6400?

The last batch of 90nm X2s, particularly those binned as 6400+ chips, seem to OC pretty well. I might wind up getting one myself and playing with it if the whole Phenom thing winds up being a total dud (and/or just plain won't work in my motherboard). However, any kind of serious overclock on an X2 to that point would probably require aftermarket cooling.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: taltamir
thanks nxil, you make some excellent points. The cost on C2D is very attractive for a new build but since I already have a good AM2 mobo it is just not justified.
I just ordered an X2 6400+ from tiger direct. It was slightly cheaper then newegg, and they are shipping it from texas (and I live in texas) so it should arrive quickly.

Probably not gonna help since you already ordered. But newegg has a deal on the x2 5000+ black edition with 2Gig Corsair ram combo for $125 after rebate. Black edition has unlocked multiplier for really easy overclock. Those run at 2.6ghz stock and should go 3+ghz pretty easily.

I was in similar situation as you are, have some really nice AM2 board, and have been thinking about going to Intel. I decided to go the cheap route, get a 69 buck Brisbane and OC it to ~2.9ghz. To get an Intel board with similar features I got with my AM2 board, (full x16 SLI, with 2 pci-x slots, onboard raid...etc) I'd have to spend $250+ just for the board. I figure I don't do anything CPU intensive, so it doesn't worth that much for me to switch.

 

[taltamir]

The 6400 is actually ALSO a black edition... but thanks for the info.

I got my 6400+ and tried it with the stock HS from my 3800+.... It didn't work, had to DOWNCLOCK it 400mhz (multiplier down from 16 to 14) to get it stable... it now idles on 55 C and load 67 C.
I ordered a Zalman 9500 AM2 cooler... that should allow me to run it at proper speeds. I will keep you updated...
According to dell in 8 days my 8800GT will ship... woopee!

I was looking at intel, and they have some really nice offering but the real problem is the mobo... Only X38 mobos have 6 SATA ports I need and those motherboards are way to expensive... Although in retrospect I could have probably bought a P35 mobo with a raid controller... but its never as as onboard controllers.. So my current path seems to be the best.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: taltamir
But with RAID1 I can freely move it anywhere I please. And if I want I can just plug a singe drive in and it works as a single drive, and then add a second drive later, tell it to do raid1 and use the data on drive A (which it will then copy to drive B).

RAID1 arrays still have metadata at the end of the disk. I would still exercise caution. It sounds like the Nvidia RAID drivers understand the other chipset metadata formats (or they happen to be the same between NV chipsets), but I wouldn't risk swapping your array to say, an Intel chipset mobo.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: taltamir
I was looking at intel, and they have some really nice offering but the real problem is the mobo... Only X38 mobos have 6 SATA ports I need and those motherboards are way to expensive... Although in retrospect I could have probably bought a P35 mobo with a raid controller... but its never as as onboard controllers.. So my current path seems to be the best.

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R has six ICH9R SATA RAID ports, plus two "gigabyte RAID" SATA ports, for 8 ports total. Cost is around $130.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: taltamir
I was looking at intel, and they have some really nice offering but the real problem is the mobo... Only X38 mobos have 6 SATA ports I need and those motherboards are way to expensive... Although in retrospect I could have probably bought a P35 mobo with a raid controller... but its never as as onboard controllers.. So my current path seems to be the best.

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R has six ICH9R SATA RAID ports, plus two "gigabyte RAID" SATA ports, for 8 ports total. Cost is around $130.

very nice... would have been the ideal thing for me if I hadn't already purchased stuff...

Thanks for the info.