Also, if they wanted to get HR involved, didn't they originally hire him for the 3rd shift? Not the first?
Also, if they wanted to get HR involved, didn't they originally hire him for the 3rd shift? Not the first?
Documented as "insubordinate and difficult to work with"
Please sign here to formalize our discussion. If you wish we can have a HR rep here for futher documentation. Sorry it had to be this way, but I really wanted to make this easy on everybody. We'd hate to lose you, but this really does need to happen.
Please sign here to formalize our discussion. If you wish we can have a HR rep here for futher documentation. Sorry it had to be this way, but I really wanted to make this easy on everybody. We'd hate to lose you, but this really does need to happen.
Depending on what type of employment state it is, that could land the company into a world of sh!t if it would get taken to court.
The question is, do you ever want to be promoted?
They won't fire you for refusing, it will just label you as a "go-nowhere" employee who isn't really interested in moving up.
I ran into the same thing at my company - they won't promote after hours people, you have to go to days. Period. They all assume afterhours work means you are the damn Maytag man.
They won't fire you for refusing, it will just label you as a "go-nowhere" employee who isn't really interested in moving up.
I ran into the same thing at my company - they won't promote after hours people, you have to go to days. Period. They all assume afterhours work means you are the damn Maytag man.
HR was already involved long before the E-mail went out. I took my directions from them.
The document was already reviewed by legal and approved by HR. So if you could please, just sign. I really didn't want to go this route and we love what you do, but this change must happen.
Spidey, you sound just like an old manager I used to work with. He came in, tried to change the place with inappropriate demands on the employees. He was fired two months later, but not before he lost 75% of the experienced staff, including myself.
Forcing an employee to make a drastic lifestyle change because it suits the business does not engender company loyalty. If it is that important to the company to let John have his "time off", then FMLA provides for that.
The guy was specifically hired for a night shift. I'd find it hard to believe that HR, who was involved in the hiring process, would authorize termination on the OP.
Not to mention even if it is an at-will state, it may get brought to court for discrimination.
Sounds like John's problems are John's problems, not yours. Let John find a way to deal with them without getting you involved.
I consider myself a loyal and company person, but i wouldn't trade shift if i didn't want to. Offer to swap a few shift changes to help the guy out, but don't change unless you want to. I wouldn't even bother with an excuse if i were you... it sounds like the guy just wants your shift back, and is making a stink about it.
Ok, here is what you say:
Mr/Ms. <Boss's last name>,
I wanted to thank you for considering me first for switching to <shift>. I really would like to get more experience, however right now my schedule is such that I will have to decline this opportunity. I hope things work out for John, please let me know if there is anything that I can do to help beyond switching shifts.
Thanks and have a nice day.
<your name>
/edit this does a few things, 1) it doesn't obligate you to make up some story about why you can't change your schedule (like it would if you said "I have another obligation") You do not have to explain your reasons for wanting to keep your current schedule. 2) It shows that you are concerned about your co-workers, and that you would like to help, but as you are a victim of circumstance (your current schedule) you are unable to help directly, but you are happy to assist in any other way. 3) Have a nice day - people eat that crap up. In my past two jobs I began my employment by only ending my emails in -<my name> and I found that people were a little stand-offish. When I started putting "Have a nice day" or "have a great day" at the end of my emails, people started thinking that I actually meant it. My boss would even come into my office just to talk about tv-shows, what we did this weekend etc, prior to this she strictly enforced no personal discussion on company time. Yeah you die a little bit inside each time you say it, but if they give you a pay raise every time you quit (see the other thread heh) it's worth it.
Mr/Ms. <Boss's last name>,
I wanted to thank you for considering me first for switching to <shift>. I really would like to get more experience, however right now my schedule is such that I will have to decline this opportunity. I hope things work out for John, please let me know if there is anything that I can do to help beyond switching shifts.
Thanks and have a nice day.
<your name>
/edit this does a few things, 1) it doesn't obligate you to make up some story about why you can't change your schedule (like it would if you said "I have another obligation") You do not have to explain your reasons for wanting to keep your current schedule. 2) It shows that you are concerned about your co-workers, and that you would like to help, but as you are a victim of circumstance (your current schedule) you are unable to help directly, but you are happy to assist in any other way. 3) Have a nice day - people eat that crap up. In my past two jobs I began my employment by only ending my emails in -<my name> and I found that people were a little stand-offish. When I started putting "Have a nice day" or "have a great day" at the end of my emails, people started thinking that I actually meant it. My boss would even come into my office just to talk about tv-shows, what we did this weekend etc, prior to this she strictly enforced no personal discussion on company time. Yeah you die a little bit inside each time you say it, but if they give you a pay raise every time you quit (see the other thread heh) it's worth it.
I think pretty much everybody knows I don't have any social life, no family, et cetera, and I'm incapable of fibbing in this situation. I don't have any specific need to be on any particular shift, I just greatly prefer this shift, and I'd be unhappy on first shift. Frankly it removes one of the major reasons that I enjoy the job; having to do the same job on first shift becomes a negative experience.
As for the pay, I don't know what they'd say about it. They may well be willing to leave me the 2 bucks extra, but the loss of pay in itself isn't why I don't want to go. Also by the wording of the email, it doesn't sound like it's meant to be a temporary change. I think John is using his family as an excuse to get what he wants anyway; I know that he and his wife ran into issues with the fact that when he was on 3rd shift, he was able to be home in the afternoon when his kids got home, even when he was working extra days during the week he was able to be home until his wife got home from work. But he knew about this stuff before he accepted the move to first shift. I don't think he's having any temporary problems that he just needs some time to work out.
I am inclined to look at it as being his problem, not mine, and although I am always willing to help out, this is just too much of a change to expect me to make. I just don't know how much of a problem it will be; if he says he's going to quit, I don't know if they'd decide to keep him and get rid of me or not. This is an at will employment state; I don't know what the rules are about firing me in this case, as it would amount to them telling me that they no longer need me in the position I currently fill, but they're offering me a job on another shift.
As for promotions, I'm not really looking for it at this time. I'm happy where I am. I know I'd need to work first shift for a while before being promoted, but the only promotions would be into second level support, which at this point I'm not interested in.
When it comes down to it, if I wasn't a pansy, I'd be looking for a new job anyway; this isn't a bad job exactly, it's just not a good fit for me in the long term.
As for the pay, I don't know what they'd say about it. They may well be willing to leave me the 2 bucks extra, but the loss of pay in itself isn't why I don't want to go. Also by the wording of the email, it doesn't sound like it's meant to be a temporary change. I think John is using his family as an excuse to get what he wants anyway; I know that he and his wife ran into issues with the fact that when he was on 3rd shift, he was able to be home in the afternoon when his kids got home, even when he was working extra days during the week he was able to be home until his wife got home from work. But he knew about this stuff before he accepted the move to first shift. I don't think he's having any temporary problems that he just needs some time to work out.
I am inclined to look at it as being his problem, not mine, and although I am always willing to help out, this is just too much of a change to expect me to make. I just don't know how much of a problem it will be; if he says he's going to quit, I don't know if they'd decide to keep him and get rid of me or not. This is an at will employment state; I don't know what the rules are about firing me in this case, as it would amount to them telling me that they no longer need me in the position I currently fill, but they're offering me a job on another shift.
As for promotions, I'm not really looking for it at this time. I'm happy where I am. I know I'd need to work first shift for a while before being promoted, but the only promotions would be into second level support, which at this point I'm not interested in.
When it comes down to it, if I wasn't a pansy, I'd be looking for a new job anyway; this isn't a bad job exactly, it's just not a good fit for me in the long term.
Then don't take the shift change... and you don't need to come up with an elaborate explanation. Just say you're not interested it, it doesn't suit you atm. If they let you go because of this, then you'll get unemployment and you can go look for a new job in the meanwhile.
If you want to stay in your shift, politely tell your boss so. End of story.
If the boss asks again, he really isn't asking anymore. Accept it, unless you are okay with your position possibly being "phased out" in an unannounced "reorganization".
If the boss asks again, he really isn't asking anymore. Accept it, unless you are okay with your position possibly being "phased out" in an unannounced "reorganization".
Oy, I probably should have included this part of the email:
That makes it sound like he won't mind if I say no, but at the same time, I get the feeling that it's "respect your wishes but only because we have to, and we'll remember it next time you need something".
Thinking about it more, I think my boss himself really wouldn't mind if I say no, he's always very appreciative of the times I've helped by covering for other people, and he's a nice guy. It just becomes a matter of what John's going to do. He might just give up after giving it his best shot, or he might become a dip about it and complain even more, making everybody else listen to it, and become rude with me over it, or he might go as far as saying he's going to quit over it.
Personally I'm not too concerned about John's "feelings" about it, as he's never really seemed like anyone who cares what other people feel about anything; and I only see him for half an hour once a week on Friday at the shift change normally. However I would feel like an ass if there were serious problems and it seemed like I was just dismissing them.
That makes it sound like he won't mind if I say no, but at the same time, I get the feeling that it's "respect your wishes but only because we have to, and we'll remember it next time you need something".
Thinking about it more, I think my boss himself really wouldn't mind if I say no, he's always very appreciative of the times I've helped by covering for other people, and he's a nice guy. It just becomes a matter of what John's going to do. He might just give up after giving it his best shot, or he might become a dip about it and complain even more, making everybody else listen to it, and become rude with me over it, or he might go as far as saying he's going to quit over it.
Personally I'm not too concerned about John's "feelings" about it, as he's never really seemed like anyone who cares what other people feel about anything; and I only see him for half an hour once a week on Friday at the shift change normally. However I would feel like an ass if there were serious problems and it seemed like I was just dismissing them.
Well I committed myself, I replied and said no. I know I was probably a bit too simpering about it and probably should not have said it in quite the way I did, but it's just in my nature.
codeyf
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
- 11,854
- 3
- 81
Then it comes down to:
"Unfortunately, I am not currently interested in a shift change. However, if I can help in any other capacity, please let me know. If John needs a couple days to take care of something, I'd certainly be willing to cover/swap as needed."
that calls for a face to face....
you can't truly read intentions/expectations/emotions with e-mail.
have a talk. If after reading you boss's verbal/body language cues you should be able to make the appropriate call. Pay particular attention to body language.
From the part you left out he is presenting you with an opportunity...and that only knocks once.
I will recant everything I've posted in this thread and now say "go get it"
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