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How safe would you feel with a Raid 5 array?
- Thread starter eflat
- Start date
ForumMaster
Diamond Member
😕
i have a single drive. if it fails, i won't lose any important data. know why? cause i burned it 3 times and put discs in different places. the chances of all 3 discs (not in the same house) not working is very very small. what data are you dealing with that makes you so paranoid?
i have a single drive. if it fails, i won't lose any important data. know why? cause i burned it 3 times and put discs in different places. the chances of all 3 discs (not in the same house) not working is very very small. what data are you dealing with that makes you so paranoid?
Yep, there are lots of ways to lose data on a RAID array beyond a single drive failure. Your best bet is to have an external backup of some sort in addition, or even in advance of RAID.
E.g.
Something shorted out .. mobo's dead .. all 3 HDDs are dead .. They want £1000 for data recovery so its all gone 🙁
Please Please Please help me I spent $2400 on this system just to have a large and SAFE storage, this is most important to me, life importance to me, help me help!
E.g.
Something shorted out .. mobo's dead .. all 3 HDDs are dead .. They want £1000 for data recovery so its all gone 🙁
Please Please Please help me I spent $2400 on this system just to have a large and SAFE storage, this is most important to me, life importance to me, help me help!
JoLLyRoGer
Diamond Member
RAID0 + a single drive for backup images + Acronis scheduled to run weekly keeps me feeling pretty safe.
Not to mention that I get to utilize my entire storage capacity vice sacarificing storage space for parity data, hot spare, etc.
Also, by using the RAID 0 as my primary OS drive, I don't incur the write-back penalty of RAID 5. Yes you gain on the read side of the coin, but you actually take a performance hit durring write operations because data has to be written in two places for the actual stripe and then again for the parity data.
Unless you absolutely need 5 9's of availability (like for a web-server for instance), I'd just recommend putting your drives together in RAID 0 and leaving one of them stand-alone for doing system images/backup storage. You'll ultimately see better drive performance this way AND you won't have to sacrifice any storage capacity.
Alternatively, you could install a tape drive for weekly backups and store the tapes in your neighbor's garage if the data is THAT sensitive.
My $.02
Jr.. 😎
Not to mention that I get to utilize my entire storage capacity vice sacarificing storage space for parity data, hot spare, etc.
Also, by using the RAID 0 as my primary OS drive, I don't incur the write-back penalty of RAID 5. Yes you gain on the read side of the coin, but you actually take a performance hit durring write operations because data has to be written in two places for the actual stripe and then again for the parity data.
Unless you absolutely need 5 9's of availability (like for a web-server for instance), I'd just recommend putting your drives together in RAID 0 and leaving one of them stand-alone for doing system images/backup storage. You'll ultimately see better drive performance this way AND you won't have to sacrifice any storage capacity.
Alternatively, you could install a tape drive for weekly backups and store the tapes in your neighbor's garage if the data is THAT sensitive.
My $.02
Jr.. 😎
imported_wired247
Golden Member
I agree that the safest way to save your data is to back up frequently.
However the one nice thing about a raid-5 or raid-6 array is the ability for the array to keep working on-line even with a totally dead HD.
Raid-0 + large backup drive is a great way to go!
However the one nice thing about a raid-5 or raid-6 array is the ability for the array to keep working on-line even with a totally dead HD.
Raid-0 + large backup drive is a great way to go!
RebateMonger
Elite Member
I've seen several RAID 5 arrays go down in ways that all data was lost. That's what backups are for.
ch33zw1z
Lifer
Steer clear of "RAID" 0, shouldn't even be considered RAID. What you're planning is good, but taking regular backups is a must no matter what array type you go with. Of course, backing up 2TB(correct?) of data is no easy task...time and money wise. You may want to look at a RAID 5 over four disks with a hot spare, if you have that kind of cash. How much are you going to sink into this setup?
ch33zw1z
Lifer
What type of data are you working with? If it's a FULL 2TB of data, a secondary array may work for you. If you can split the data up, using a couple 500's, 750's, or w/e could get the job done.
Madwand1 makes a good point...More than one way to kill the array. I would imagine for the power surge issue, you would be using some sort of UPS or power management system. Also, if you are serious about this type of array then you may want to invest in a solid controller and that backup that is a focal point 🙂 If you have enough money, almost every problem has a solution lol
Madwand1 makes a good point...More than one way to kill the array. I would imagine for the power surge issue, you would be using some sort of UPS or power management system. Also, if you are serious about this type of array then you may want to invest in a solid controller and that backup that is a focal point 🙂 If you have enough money, almost every problem has a solution lol
DLT or LTO is your best option. You can get an 400/800GB LTO-3 tape for around $90. LTO-4 tapes go 800-1.6TB for around $100.
That said, an LTO-3 drive starts around $1,700.
LTO is the fastest. DLT is slower, but it's much cheaper and you could just let it run over night.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16840113018
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16840993003
That would be the best option for true archiving. HD's do not have a long shelf life and they have more potential to fail.
I would never do any actual backup or archiving using HDs.
That said, an LTO-3 drive starts around $1,700.
LTO is the fastest. DLT is slower, but it's much cheaper and you could just let it run over night.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16840113018
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16840993003
That would be the best option for true archiving. HD's do not have a long shelf life and they have more potential to fail.
I would never do any actual backup or archiving using HDs.
erikistired
Diamond Member
safer than with raid 0, but not safe enough to not do tape or cd/dvd backups as well.
EDIT: Misread post. 😱
I have used RAID 5 with a backup for years. I have had my RAID 5 array go down due to power supply issues (PSU hiccuped and dropped 2 drives...). Also had my entire DVD backup go south when the RAID 5 died. Not a fun day. My current solution = RAID 5 for storage, images, documents, and media; SVN + backup for essential data (docs), thumbdrive for docs, DVD data archiving, and external hd for media (digital pics that can't be replaced).
erikistired
Diamond Member
yes. i'd feel safer with raid 5 than raid 0. however i would still do backups to something other than a hard drive, which is not really something that has a reliable shelf life. however, starting with raid 5 is not a bad idea if you have data that is sensitive, certainly more than using raid 0. at the end of the day i'd still be backing up to tape or cd/dvd tho.
i think you got confused as to what i was saying. the topic was "how safe would you feel with a raid 5 array?" and my answer was "safer than using raid 0" because that was suggested in the thread at least once. i did however also state that proper backups should be done. 🙂
I see. Sorry about that. I edited my post. I did misunderstand what you wrote.
I don't have all of my 2TB backed up to DVD. 🙂 My documents fits on 1 DVD, graphics fit on 4, etc. And I would never use DVD for anything but secondary backup anyway.
To me, losing data is just a reality that has to be dealt with, and I do what I can to minimize the damage when it does happen.
MichaelD
Lifer
This is a pretty good thread. 🙂
"How safe do I feel with RAID5?" Depends on a lot of factors:
- What kind of RAID5 array are we talking about (Hardware/Software?)
- Assuming hardware, is it a dedicated controller with a BBU?
- How many disks?
- Are we on a surge protector, a small UPS or a large UPS with shutdown software?
- Is that data backed up anywhere else?
- HOW MUCH data?
- How IMPORTANT is that data?
At work I have a 4TB array with about 3.5TB of data on it. The array has 42 drives ; 3 are hotspares. The array is backed up to tape; not all at once though. We do various incremental and full backups of the various databases and folders on different days. Once a month we rotate a set of the full backup tapes to an offsite location.
I feel very confident in my giant RAID5 array b/c we have great backups, and b/c of the hotspare drives. Without the backups, I'd still be nervous b/c that data is absolutely mission-critical. I.E. most of the 800+ users could not do their job w/o that data and it would result in a business-STOP situation.
For a home-user/home office situation, "how safe" depends on how much money you want to dedicate to feeling safe. 😉
A big UPS with shutdown software AND a real RAID controller with a battery backup AND an online hot-spare would be an excellent start. Daily/weekly backups to an external drive or tape would seal the deal for "safe."
So, how much "safe" do you want? Got deep pockets?
If not, do this: Get a couple of 750GB drives, run them RAID1 on your motherboard's RAID controller AND make backups to DVDs or an external HD. I've done that for years at home. No issues.
"How safe do I feel with RAID5?" Depends on a lot of factors:
- What kind of RAID5 array are we talking about (Hardware/Software?)
- Assuming hardware, is it a dedicated controller with a BBU?
- How many disks?
- Are we on a surge protector, a small UPS or a large UPS with shutdown software?
- Is that data backed up anywhere else?
- HOW MUCH data?
- How IMPORTANT is that data?
At work I have a 4TB array with about 3.5TB of data on it. The array has 42 drives ; 3 are hotspares. The array is backed up to tape; not all at once though. We do various incremental and full backups of the various databases and folders on different days. Once a month we rotate a set of the full backup tapes to an offsite location.
I feel very confident in my giant RAID5 array b/c we have great backups, and b/c of the hotspare drives. Without the backups, I'd still be nervous b/c that data is absolutely mission-critical. I.E. most of the 800+ users could not do their job w/o that data and it would result in a business-STOP situation.
For a home-user/home office situation, "how safe" depends on how much money you want to dedicate to feeling safe. 😉
A big UPS with shutdown software AND a real RAID controller with a battery backup AND an online hot-spare would be an excellent start. Daily/weekly backups to an external drive or tape would seal the deal for "safe."
So, how much "safe" do you want? Got deep pockets?
If not, do this: Get a couple of 750GB drives, run them RAID1 on your motherboard's RAID controller AND make backups to DVDs or an external HD. I've done that for years at home. No issues.
OK, what I am doing first and foremost is setting up a NAS server so that my Mac and PC (and whatever other computer I feel like attaching) can all access it. 500GB and 750GB drives are the best value right now, so it will probably be either 1.5TB or 2.25TB.
I am very paranoid about data loss now because recently I accidentally erased a drive and the external backup I had failed.
So it will probably be four (or possibly 5 disks) on a software raid controller with a small UPS (it would be interesting to look into shut down software).
So right now I am thinking of setting up the raid 5 or 6 server as above and then setting up a second raid 5 or 6 array on an external sata enclosure like this.
It only needs to be backed up every week or two so I'll periodically bring out the eSATA case and back everything up and then keep it somewhere safe.
Sound like an OK system? And if I were really paranoid I would just get a second eSATA raid backup and keep that in a third location.
Magusigne
Golden Member
"Thank you for your help folks
There was a power failure even though Smart-UPS 1400 was plugged in and has a brand new (5 months) $120 battery, ANTS had eaten into the unit, into a large transformer, they had hundreds of baby larvae, the unit failed on the first power outage, it lasted about 6 seconds then the storage computer, my personal PC and my wife's PC shut down.... slammed down I guess it is"
Sorry to kind of not add anything to the conversation but I thought that was the amazing part of those links that were posted about raids going down.
I think the main point is nothing is foolproof. Backup frequently and if you really want to spend all that money on a Raid 5 with 3TB just buy a couple big backups for redundancy.
PS- Also place ant traps around the backups...tehee
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