ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,725
- 17,376
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I don’t think there is a poster here who thinks democrats messaging is on point or even mediocre at best.
I don’t think there is a poster here who thinks democrats messaging is on point or even mediocre at best.
Or, the notion that the fix their messaging will never happen because the same defeatist attitude you are expressing. This is what liberal blindness is, the inability to message because they have no idea there is anything wrong with their message and specifically because their ego self flattery is tied to the stupidity of how they message and it would hurt their egos to see it. I can't get across this notion of what reasoning looks like from inside a paper bag to somebody inside the paper bag. The world is what it is because people are asleep.
You might be interested in this: https://www.psypost.org/2022/02/stu...n-and-support-for-authoritarian-leaders-62479
While I'm not sure the headline is an accurate depiction of the findings, I think it hits on what you and I see.
While I'm not sure the headline is an accurate depiction of the findings, I think it hits on what you and I see.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,611
- 33,330
- 136
nakedfrog
No Lifer
- Apr 3, 2001
- 63,369
- 19,748
- 136
Okay? So they need to consider that regardless of what they put forth, it will be represented negatively by the right, per Moonie. What changes?
What messaging can they put forth when they're denied the capacity to really do much effectively?
Mr.IncrediblyBored
Lifer
- Jun 18, 2000
- 11,215
- 781
- 126
Does Moonie still post weird shit heavy, really heavy, on the sarcasm, or has he finally gone nuts?
I think the disadvantage is due to their focus on two moral concerns that conservative also have, but lacking focus on a bunch that the organically do not understand. Liberals need to learn to address a wider range of moral concerns to appeal to conservatives who have them. All it takes is some scientific understanding of the moral concerns that conservatives have and an appreciation for their value when practiced properly.
Take a simple example: Conservatives are big on respect for authority. Part of human evolutionary success is that via language we can pass on life experience from those who have had it to those who have not. This can be anything. How to catch different game, what plants heal, the whole of human culture transmitted from the older to the younger. Where that becomes a problem is when people listen to somebody like Trump who has as his single aim to benefit himself. Respect is profoundly important but so is the capacity of judgment to know when it is deserved.
What liberals need to do, in my opinion, is transmit what neuroscience has so far been able to elucidate about human psychology to reveal how conservatives natural gifts are used against them via manipulation and deception. Where the problems in liberal messaging lie become clear when one begins to look at conservatives through the lens of the value of their moral concerns. Then, instead of appearing to be amoral or immoral, one becomes a moral crusader for moral reorientation and re-evaluation. There is nothing, for example, Christian about Republican philosophy, but so long as the emphasis is on how hideous religious people and their religions are, they will prefer to listen to those who appear to value their moral concerns rather than those who appear to speak out against morality generally.
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,725
- 17,376
- 136
Good question. I believe Biden or any democrat president should lead the charge when it comes to championing policies. So before any legislation or debate is done the president should be stating what the problem is. He should be stating it factually and (here is the key aspect democrats always miss) be stating the problem using an appeal to emotion. He should then put forth several options on how to tackle the problem and again state those solutions both factually and appealing to emotion. He should state that he is open to other ideas and welcomes debate.
You then have the committees do their research and come up with potential solutions. Those solutions should then be put out in public by the president using the same techniques as before. However, each house member and senate member then needs to go to the public and lay out the solutions and their pros and cons (both factually and emotionally) and they should be doing it at the state level as well as the National level by going on ALL the major networks.
Now when republicans start to attack the ideas and they will, the attacks should immediately be reframed and turned around on them by asking for their solutions. Any attempt to reframe democratic ideas should be met with appeals to logic and emotion and framed correctly. Once a solution has been found and democrats can agree on it and hopefully some republicans too, Biden should present the solution using the same previous techniques. He then needs to travel the country with his plan and address the concerns people have and pressure representatives in every state to vote for the legislation or vote against the American people and the constituents for which they represent.
In summary, own the messaging by using facts and more importantly emotional appeal and go directly to the people where their are representatives who are blocking said legislation.
You can use the BBB as a perfect example of what not to do. They didn’t talk about the issue or the solutions, they didn’t appeal to emotion or logic for that matter, and they let republicans frame the issue as big government spending and Biden certainly didn’t hammer the representatives who were against his plan.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 53,664
- 48,245
- 136
I believe I know why and that is what I want to convey. There is no other way on earth other than flawed messaging that I can account for the fact that people aren't 100% liberal. Other than inculcated delusional madness, nobody would be stupid enough to vote against their own best interests. It was social cooperation, even if among a group, that enabled humans to compete against much more powerful predators. We are all evolved from a small number of ancestors and are 99+ % genetically identical. By thinking of each other we make the world safe for out children. Feelings of worthlessness are what make us want to rob others of dignity. The blessings of language and thought are also a curse. We can escape only with understanding. You can't make people feel more worthless than they already do and teach them anything new.
That's the whole point. We are what we perceive. Our reality is determined by dominate concealed prejudices. I express the viewpoint that there is an experience people can have characterized by the death of such ideals and dreams where true reality is perceived. People who have experienced such a conscious state all see the same reality, presence in the now. In order to even begin to appreciate the possibility of such a transformation one has to first have information, for example, that our sense of ego well being is mistakenly ties to the truth of our sacred beliefs, our moral values if you will, and that it isn't the possession of the specifics of what we believe those values to be but that the discovery of fallacy in our thinking does not result in the collapse of morality, but a deeper understanding of its value. We are afraid and what we fear doesn't happen when what we fear happens.
Our dominant concealed prejudices are conditioning we received before we had the intellect to examine their veracity. Because they were instilled under threat if violated, at a time when our guardians determined they had been violated, their validity was assumed and buried out of conscious memory. Hidden from conscious awareness they never the less act unexamined as assumed facts. If you want to stir up a bucket of shit, challenge them.
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hal2kilo
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2009
- 26,465
- 12,593
- 136
Once again none of our nuanced thoughtful discussions matter.
Joe Walsh on what the left doesn't get: TrumpWorld "would happily burn this country down" | Salon.com
Joe Walsh on what the left doesn't get: TrumpWorld "would happily burn this country down" | Salon.com
This is nonsense. The Left absolutely knows this. Its the willfully ignorant "moderates/centrists" that are delusional about how far gone right wingers are.
Its those same idiots that are why the Democrats can't do much, because if they do then the the morons start screeching and join the right wingers.
Yup, it’s always someone else’s fault. You yourself, however, are the real, woke, sophisticated, oh so wise and politically astute left, so pure in your understanding, so clear in your vision you are fully justified and entitled to throw buckets full of contempt everywhere.
Nothing could be wrong about your approach, always held back by the stupidity of others, always the prisoner and victim of the failure of others to act. They just don’t see the world from the long distance view your ivory tower affords Stupid moderate/centrist dick heads.
But you know the answer that solves all worldly problems. You get to throw your childish temper tantrums and call them names. You get to switch that pointy little left had index finger from behind your back and start waving it around on your right hand, accusingly those beneath your contempt.
Just wanted to say hi, then, and add that I don’t agree with your diagnosis. I think you are the liberal type that sleeps to what the right is, just like the article warns. You are powerless and inept because you are trapped in the system. You don’t get the danger you face. You do not take the right for what it is, a deadly imminent threat. You do not comprehend. What is the proper response from a country that becomes aware it is under attack? Do you see such a threat? Who has the capacity to act? Everything about how you mouth off tells me you are a frustrated intellectual who has not faced what is going on because you feel as guilty as everyone else.
The Polls knew what to do in the event of the nuclear sirens going off. Throw on a white sheet and crawl to the cemetery. That’s the Democratic Party.
cytg111
Lifer
- Mar 17, 2008
- 26,735
- 16,019
- 136
Speaking of propaganda, right wing propaganda. Right wing propaganda influenced by Russian psyops -> via Trump via and who knows how many Congress critters they got kompromat on
.
Riddle me this.
If someone wanted to take the US down, and by down, eliminate it as a threat to Russia, China etc.
Why back a candidate like Trump? Why not an AOC character. It seems far more likely to kill off the war hawks and mongering than some two bit reality tv personality.
Why isnt Putins Russia pouring money into the left wing of the democratic party?
.
Riddle me this.
If someone wanted to take the US down, and by down, eliminate it as a threat to Russia, China etc.
Why back a candidate like Trump? Why not an AOC character. It seems far more likely to kill off the war hawks and mongering than some two bit reality tv personality.
Why isnt Putins Russia pouring money into the left wing of the democratic party?
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,611
- 33,330
- 136
For a non-Republican you sure do parrot their daily talking points right on cue.
blackangst1
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 22,902
- 2,359
- 126
Just a question... It's news not a talking point you nitwit
You seem to know more GOP talking points than i do. Wonder why that is?
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,611
- 33,330
- 136
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