How right wing propaganda has corrupted the political left:

[Moonbeam]

How the modern addiction to identity politics has fractured the left

This partisan, divisive form of liberalism alienated the working class and helped create the conditions for the rise of Donald Trump.

www.newstatesman.com

.

In this article we see not a single original idea. The problems identified by the author have clearly been implanted by right wing propaganda. Nobody on the left besides this deluded idiot has even a remotely similar opinion. Sadly, I have been infected too not to name countless others. It’s such a shame too. I seem to be infected, just plain old politically incorrect.

 

[dank69]

Are we going to pretend that "identity politics" means the same thing to everyone. Before I read past the headline of an editorial from 2017, does the author define exactly what qualifies as identity politics and what does not? Or does he just rant against the nothing?

 

[ivwshane]

Sheesh! It’s like you can’t help yourself at this point! Please continue posting why liberals are so bad because they…checks Republican talking points…are whoever the republicans defined them as.

 

[MichaelMay]

How the modern addiction to identity politics has fractured the left

This partisan, divisive form of liberalism alienated the working class and helped create the conditions for the rise of Donald Trump.

www.newstatesman.com

.

In this article we see not a single original idea. The problems identified by the author have clearly been implanted by right wing propaganda. Nobody on the left besides this deluded idiot has even a remotely similar opinion. Sadly, I have been infected too not to name countless others. It’s such a shame too. I seem to be infected, just plain old politically incorrect.

That which does not progress stagnates and dies.

Works for biology, works for society too if you look at history.

 

[Moonbeam]

That which does not progress stagnates and dies.

Works for biology, works for society too if you look at history.

What kind of a biology student were you? Almost all genetic mutations are fatal. Mutations are changes, correct? Do you want to stick with this claim?

 

[Moonbeam]

Sheesh! It’s like you can’t help yourself at this point! Please continue posting why liberals are so bad because they…checks Republican talking points…are whoever the republicans defined them as.

Wait, are you really saying that liberals who critique fellow liberals do so because they are falling for conservative talking points and that there in nothing really there to criticize, that such poor fools have no capacity to see any possible flaws in liberal thinking, that the crushing weight of conservative thinking didn’t perhaps drive you crazy and not me? Jesus, tell me if this forum isn’t an apoplectic reaction to Republican talking points just as identity politics is. Maybe you are projecting.

 

[ivwshane]

Wait, are you really saying that liberals who critique fellow liberals do so because they are falling for conservative talking points and that there in nothing really there to criticize, that such poor fools have no capacity to see any possible flaws in liberal thinking, that the crushing weight of conservative thinking didn’t perhaps drive you crazy and not me? Jesus, tell me if this forum isn’t an apoplectic reaction to Republican talking points just as identity politics is. Maybe you are projecting.

I’m sure that’s what you hoped I was saying as that would be a pretty easy argument to defeat.

Just like everyone has an opinion, not all opinions are valid and the same holds true for criticism. Do you need a few examples? CRT would be a perfect example. If we swallow the rights talking point it would be that the left is trying create a narrative through teaching of how white children should feel guilty. Of course a) that’s not what CRT is b) no one other than some higher education classes are even teaching CRT. You can throw in wokeness while you are at it as it’s attributed to the left but what is the basis of such claim? I know for a fact that you’ve never bothered to verify such attribution nor has anyone else on this forum but many attribute it to the left without even a thought about its validity. Same with the “big government” trope that is often attributed to the left, again with zero thought about what that actually entails. Cancel culture is another prominent theme that also gets blamed on the left despite it actually being a feature of capitalism.

So no, I’m not saying criticism of the left is invalid or only done so because of the rights influence but it does happen and it happens quite often.

I have to ask though, why did you feel the need to use a straw man (this is actually the second time I’ve seen you do that recently when responding to a post)? Were you projecting your own rationalizations on me because you think I must think the way you do? I think you could use a little more introspection lately because you are coming off as quite defensive lately (I’m not just referring to your response to me either).

 

[Moonbeam]

I’m sure that’s what you hoped I was saying as that would be a pretty easy argument to defeat.

Just like everyone has an opinion, not all opinions are valid and the same holds true for criticism. Do you need a few examples? CRT would be a perfect example. If we swallow the rights talking point it would be that the left is trying create a narrative through teaching of how white children should feel guilty. Of course a) that’s not what CRT is b) no one other than some higher education classes are even teaching CRT. You can throw in wokeness while you are at it as it’s attributed to the left but what is the basis of such claim? I know for a fact that you’ve never bothered to verify such attribution nor has anyone else on this forum but many attribute it to the left without even a thought about its validity. Same with the “big government” trope that is often attributed to the left, again with zero thought about what that actually entails. Cancel culture is another prominent theme that also gets blamed on the left despite it actually being a feature of capitalism.

So no, I’m not saying criticism of the left is invalid or only done so because of the rights influence but it does happen and it happens quite often.

I have to ask though, why did you feel the need to use a straw man (this is actually the second time I’ve seen you do that recently when responding to a post)? Were you projecting your own rationalizations on me because you think I must think the way you do? I think you could use a little more introspection lately because you are coming off as quite defensive lately (I’m not just referring to your response to me either).

You ask for logic where understanding requires humility. That has as a result the certainty that no matter how I answer incomprehension will result. My understanding of this conversation is that my attempts to persuade you of something I believe you don’t see come at you similarly. I do what feels right with my limited abilities to to offer you a different perspective. I don’t demand that you see. I just hope I don’t wind up believing my bitter criticism of the right is just the result of tonnage of bullshit propagated by the left.

 

[dank69]

You ask for logic where understanding requires humility. That has as a result the certainty that no matter how I answer incomprehension will result. My understanding of this conversation is that my attempts to persuade you of something I believe you don’t see come at you similarly. I do what feels right with my limited abilities to to offer you a different perspective. I don’t demand that you see. I just hope I don’t wind up believing my bitter criticism of the right is just the result of tonnage of bullshit propagated by the left.

The perspective you offer is one we've seen many times. This particular perspective announced how disingenuous it is right in the headline. Since you're having such a hard time recognizing bullshit lately it might be a good time to consider not criticizing anything? If that is not an option an easy way to determine if a criticism of the left and/or Democrats is legitimate is to figure out if they are being criticized for being too liberal or too conservative. If someone is saying they are being too liberal there is a statistically insignificant chance that the criticism is valid. If the criticism is that they are being too conservative there is a very good chance the criticism is valid, but pretty pointless considering there is no better alternative.

 

[nickqt]

Oh, I know this one. Let me try.

"The Republican Party is so bad because the Democratic Party isn't perfect".

Nailed it. Send me my paycheck NYTimes and Politico.

 

[cytg111]

Hook line and sinker....

The democrat party hates it self, its only in the realization of the nothingness, irrelevance of their own existence, the reality of the truth of the void and a weapon of pure joy of simply being will set everyone free.
Or die. They'll probably just die and be forgotten.. But thats ok. It never meant anything anyway.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Its rich that someone who's identity can best be described as Jordan Peterson's real doll is griping about identity politics.

 

[sandorski]

What kind of a biology student were you? Almost all genetic mutations are fatal. Mutations are changes, correct? Do you want to stick with this claim?

Not true. Everyone has a number of Mutations. Some may be Beneficial or Detrimental, but most are Harmless.

 

[HomerJS]

How the modern addiction to identity politics has fractured the left

This partisan, divisive form of liberalism alienated the working class and helped create the conditions for the rise of Donald Trump.

www.newstatesman.com

.

In this article we see not a single original idea. The problems identified by the author have clearly been implanted by right wing propaganda. Nobody on the left besides this deluded idiot has even a remotely similar opinion. Sadly, I have been infected too not to name countless others. It’s such a shame too. I seem to be infected, just plain old politically incorrect.

The title and the URL told me all I needed to know without reading

 

[Jaskalas]

I just hope I don’t wind up believing my bitter criticism of the right is just the result of tonnage of bullshit propagated by the left.

Only so far as people being stereotyped and reduced to the "Right". As opposed to individual people with their own thoughts. Modern group-think may be strong, but not all people "not us" are "Nazis". Not how it works, but damn if the BS propagated by the "Left" isn't trying its best to proclaim everything past Manchin and Sienima as something evil to be boycotted and disposed of. Heck, maybe those two as well.

Republicans are generally wrong on so many issues, and the Trump styled strain is inherently dangerous, but if we focus our energies on denying coexistence to as many people "not us" as humanly possible... then a number of people who identify and vote Democrat would fit in well with a Nazi regime. And for them to ascend with others pushing them forward is a frightening prospect. We are not inherently the "good" guys just because we have enemies to smite. We must uphold human rights for all people, not just those we associate with. I fear we are losing that in the midst of this conflict.

I see conflict just for conflict's sake, and that is not good for anyone. I see America doing its best to herald a French Revolution. And after the dust settles, should we prevail, I fear there will be no true Scotsman for any of us. We will create a monster and it will devour us all in the name of righteousness.

 

[nakedfrog]

Only so far as people being stereotyped and reduced to the "Right". As opposed to individual people with their own thoughts. Modern group-think may be strong, but not all people "not us" are "Nazis". Not how it works, but damn if the BS propagated by the "Left" isn't trying its best to proclaim everything past Manchin and Sienima as something evil to be boycotted and disposed of. Heck, maybe those two as well.

Republicans are generally wrong on so many issues, and the Trump styled strain is inherently dangerous, but if we focus our energies on denying coexistence to as many people "not us" as humanly possible... then a number of people who identify and vote Democrat would fit in well with a Nazi regime. And for them to ascend with others pushing them forward is a frightening prospect. We are not inherently the "good" guys just because we have enemies to smite. We must uphold human rights for all people, not just those we associate with. I fear we are losing that in the midst of this conflict.

Are you suggesting they're planning to round up Republicans in camps and kill them? Or... ?
And this is glossing over the fact that there are actual neo-Nazis within the right, not a majority, sure, but the equivalence you're trying to make seems tenuous to me.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you suggesting they're planning to round up Republicans in camps and kill them? Or... ?
And this is glossing over the fact that there are actual neo-Nazis within the right, not a majority, sure, but the equivalence you're trying to make seems tenuous to me.

Yeah when people make points like this I think they should at least be required to explain why the actual, real life Nazis in America seem to almost exclusively align with Republicans.

 

[brycejones]

I see conflict just for conflict's sake, and that is not good for anyone.

The very definition of the Culture War. Most so called "woke" positions amount to people just wanting to be left alone and treated with humanity and respect.

 

[Moonbeam]

(Not so interested in conservative or liberal as I am) <Edit: This was supposed to have been erased as it was for a post I abandoned to do the one below

The title and the URL told me all I needed to know without reading

The whole point was to present how effectively the right can message, how they can turn reality on its head. That you were not impressed has nothing to do with anything. Millions swallow that bull shit hook line and sinker. In order for the left to be more effective, in my opinion, they need to start dealing with how their policies will be distorted, not how they are correct but how the right will lie to them to prevent them seeing what is in their self interest.

 

[nakedfrog]

In order to be more effective, the left has to deal with how the right will spin any kind of falsehood they can come up about any idea the left puts forth. Well, when you put it like that, it sounds perfectly reasonable and totally plausible!

 

[Moonbeam]

Only so far as people being stereotyped and reduced to the "Right". As opposed to individual people with their own thoughts. Modern group-think may be strong, but not all people "not us" are "Nazis". Not how it works, but damn if the BS propagated by the "Left" isn't trying its best to proclaim everything past Manchin and Sienima as something evil to be boycotted and disposed of. Heck, maybe those two as well.

Republicans are generally wrong on so many issues, and the Trump styled strain is inherently dangerous, but if we focus our energies on denying coexistence to as many people "not us" as humanly possible... then a number of people who identify and vote Democrat would fit in well with a Nazi regime. And for them to ascend with others pushing them forward is a frightening prospect. We are not inherently the "good" guys just because we have enemies to smite. We must uphold human rights for all people, not just those we associate with. I fear we are losing that in the midst of this conflict.

I see conflict just for conflict's sake, and that is not good for anyone. I see America doing its best to herald a French Revolution. And after the dust settles, should we prevail, I fear there will be no true Scotsman for any of us. We will create a monster and it will devour us all in the name of righteousness.

Whatever happens must happen. The Wheel of Karma describes the mechanics happenings inherent to a machine. Whatever happens happens. The only people who can escape their programming are those who awake. I do my small part as best I can when I post here to suggest such a possibility. Aside from that the only thing I have a chance at is not getting sucked in myself. Rage is hard to deal with. My success is limited.

 

[dank69]

Not so interested in conservative or liberal as I am

The whole point was to present how effectively the right can message, how they can turn reality on its head. That you were not impressed has nothing to do with anything. Millions swallow that bull shit hook line and sinker. In order for the left to be more effective, in my opinion, they need to start dealing with how their policies will be distorted, not how they are correct but how the right will lie to them to prevent them seeing what is in their self interest.

Democrats just need to be able to predict the future isn't exactly a solution. Things can be distorted many different ways. Example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/02/tucker-carlson-curious-effort-cast-anti-racism-anti-republicanism/

Joe Biden: "Terrorism from white supremacy is the most lethal threat to the homeland today -- not ISIS, not al-Qaida, white supremacists."
Tucker: “It’s those White Republican men — the very ones that just today Joe Biden warned us are more dangerous than ISIS.”

 

[Moonbeam]

Democrats just need to be able to predict the future isn't exactly a solution. Things can be distorted many different ways. Example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/02/tucker-carlson-curious-effort-cast-anti-racism-anti-republicanism/

Joe Biden: "Terrorism from white supremacy is the most lethal threat to the homeland today -- not ISIS, not al-Qaida, white supremacists."
Tucker: “It’s those White Republican men — the very ones that just today Joe Biden warned us are more dangerous than ISIS.”

Just a subset of victim mentality, the projection of your hate for yourself onto others accompanied by the fear they are going to do to you what they would like to do to you and for which they need to call you a monster to justify beating you to it.

 

[dank69]

Just a subset of victim mentality, the projection of your hate for yourself onto others accompanied by the fear they are going to do to you what they would like to do to you and for which they need to call you a monster to justify beating you to it.

Who cares? That isn't the point. The point is the right is going to spin anything the Democrats say, no matter how they say it, into many different negatives. The idea that Democrats just need to fix their messaging is literal insanity.

 

[Moonbeam]

Not true. Everyone has a number of Mutations. Some may be Beneficial or Detrimental, but most are Harmless.

A large number of mutations do not express do not express. The subject is extremely complicated and the simplest wording I could find after some time searching is this:

Effects of Mutations




Figure 1: The overwhelming majority of mutations have very small effects.

This example of a possible distribution of deleterious mutational effects was obtained from DNA sequence polymorphism data from natural populations of two Drosophila species. The spike at 10-10 includes all smaller effects, whereas effects are not shown if they induce a structural damage that is equivalent to selection coefficients that are 'super-lethal' (see Loewe and Charlesworth 2006 for more details).
© 2008 Nature Education All rights reserved.


A single mutation can have a large effect, but in many cases, evolutionary change is based on the accumulation of many mutations with small effects. Mutational effects can be beneficial, harmful, or neutral, depending on their context or location. Most non-neutral mutations are deleterious. In general, the more base pairs that are affected by a mutation, the larger the effect of the mutation, and the larger the mutation's probability of being deleterious.

To better understand the impact of mutations, researchers have started to estimate distributions of mutational effects (DMEs) that quantify how many mutations occur with what effect on a given property of a biological system. In evolutionary studies, the property of interest is fitness, but in molecular systems biology, other emerging properties might also be of interest. It is extraordinarily difficult to obtain reliable information about DMEs, because the corresponding effects span many orders of magnitude, from lethal to neutral to advantageous; in addition, many confounding factors usually complicate these analyses. To make things even more difficult, many mutations also interact with each other to alter their effects; this phenomenon is referred to as epistasis. However, despite all these uncertainties, recent work has repeatedly indicated that the overwhelming majority of mutations have very small effects (Figure 1; Eyre-Walker & Keightley, 2007). Of course, much more work is needed in order to obtain more detailed information about DMEs, which are a fundamental property that governs the evolution of every biological system.