How Republicans sabotaged (and will continue to sabotage) the recovery

[PokerGuy]

The piece doesn't state that Republicans are evil. It states that they are knowingly (and possibly also unknowingly) sabotaging efforts to improve the American economy because of a difference in ideology and a refusal to agree with what most experts agree are the best courses of action.

Each of the "myths" listed have backing by polls of economists and other experts. Are you suggesting that all of these economists/experts are partisans?

It's obvious from the very first part of the article that's it's political hackery and drivel. This is the usual problem when you mix science (in this case economics) with politics. Political drivel and ideology gets justified with misguided or misapplied science as a backing.

This type of pseudo-scientific flim flam is more common in other areas (con men are experts at using it), but it's very much on display in this article. Cherry picking individual points, then using logical fallacies to apply them to policy, strawman arguments about the position from the evil republicans and on and on and on. Typical political hackery mixed with pseudo-science, basically just political spewing.

 

[IGBT]

Operation Twist..

The only reason he, and other strategists, have devised for the climb in equities has been hope for more Federal Reserve intervention. The Fed has carried out two asset buying programs called quantitative easing, as well as a third program that entailed buying and selling debt in equal amounts known as Operation Twist, which it voted to extend last month.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48259674

 

[PokerGuy]

You know, they should make Macro Econ 101 mandatory and people like you would just cease to exist.

Sorry to burst your bubble, I have a masters degree from a very good university. No trouble with macro econ at all.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Greenspan: 'We can always print money'...

*cough*, should have been obvious. We won't run out of printing presses. So the question is, do we all get a million dollar house, or a billion dollar house? Just how stupid are they?

Their comittment to inflation is open ended.

Hehe....With increasingly higher rates of inflation here is what a million dollar house will eventually look like Zimbabwe style.

If we keep up running the printing press day and night non-stop to continue the spending spree such declines in purchasing power will be inevitable for the average American as the dollar losses it value.

 

[PokerGuy]

If we keep up running the printing press day and night none stop to continue the spending spree such declines in purchasing power will be inevitable for the average American as the dollar losses it value.

Have you not been paying any attention to all the "experts" who claim we can just deficit spend ourselves into prosperity???

 

[thraashman]

Have you not been paying any attention to all the "experts" who claim we can just deficit spend ourselves into prosperity???

Have you not been paying attention to Europe that tried austerity to get outta this mess and are worse off than the US and bringing down the global market. Or to countries like Canada that have more stringent regulation on financial companies and didn't suffer from the financial collapse like other first world countries. Or literally every single piece of evidence that shows that the liberal approach works and the conservative approach fails (which would be the only kind of evidence that exists)?

 

[Matt1970]

Have you not been paying attention to Europe that tried austerity to get outta this mess and are worse off than the US and bringing down the global market. Or to countries like Canada that have more stringent regulation on financial companies and didn't suffer from the financial collapse like other first world countries. Or literally every single piece of evidence that shows that the liberal approach works and the conservative approach fails (which would be the only kind of evidence that exists)?

Europe is a differen't economy. Besides, we already have massive Austerity on the State, County and Local levels as they can't just print and borrow their way out of immediate troubles. We didn't double dip because of that austerity. Canada is right in the shit-hole with the rest of us. They live and die by the global market just like we do.

. Or literally every single piece of evidence that shows that the liberal approach works and the conservative approach fails (which would be the only kind of evidence that exists)?

Liberal approach that will make the next recession even worse due to our crippling debt? A stimulus that takes over 10 years to pay out and a healthcare bill that will stifle business growth as businesses are scared shitless to even hire that 25th employee is what you hail as a triumph? Knock yourself out. You have a President that is leading the charge in the war against Businesses, Corporations and the 1% thinking that is going create jobs.

 

[fskimospy]

Europe is a differen't economy. Besides, we already have massive Austerity on the State, County and Local levels as they can't just print and borrow their way out of immediate troubles. We didn't double dip because of that austerity. Canada is right in the shit-hole with the rest of us. They live and die by the global market just like we do.

lol. This is new levels of magical thinking. Out of one side of your mouth you complain about federal deficit spending and how horrible it is and then at the same time you say that state and local austerity didn't hurt us. (it definitely hurt us badly, just not as badly as it could have because the fed was picking up the slack)

Simply amazing.

 

[Jhhnn]

You know whats amazing about Republicans? Even as a minority they get their shit done. No matter what small or large percentage of a minority they have, their shit gets done.

Democrats, OTOH, cant get anything done even with a majority.

That follows from how game theory relates to hostage taking. Those taking hostages & doing the extorting don't care about the welfare of the hostages, while those attempting to save the hostages obviously do.

What Dems haven't realized is that sometimes the only acceptable answer is to let 'em shoot the hostage. Sometimes losing a battle means winning the war.

 

[Phokus]

Sorry to burst your bubble, I have a masters degree from a very good university. No trouble with macro econ at all.

Weird how all the PhD Economists think you're wrong.

 

[Matt1970]

Out of one side of your mouth you complain about federal deficit spending and how horrible it is and then at the same time you say that state and local austerity didn't hurt us.

That's basically the same thing Gump. Against wasteful spending, not opposed to austerity

 

[Jhhnn]

Funny, it was an "incontrovertible fact" that Stimulus Rex would fix the economy and hold unemployment down to 8%. When it did not, it was an "incontrovertible fact" that Stimulus Rex was too small to be effective. And it was then an "incontrovertible fact" that Stimulus Rex times three (or more) would fix the economy and hold unemployment down to 8%.

It's easy to be right 100% of the time when you first posit a conditional reality that assumes you are always right, even when you are demonstrably proven wrong.

You know that's been debunked many times, but you still trot out the same tired lies. Have you no shame?

 

[Jhhnn]

It's obvious from the very first part of the article that's it's political hackery and drivel. This is the usual problem when you mix science (in this case economics) with politics. Political drivel and ideology gets justified with misguided or misapplied science as a backing.

This type of pseudo-scientific flim flam is more common in other areas (con men are experts at using it), but it's very much on display in this article. Cherry picking individual points, then using logical fallacies to apply them to policy, strawman arguments about the position from the evil republicans and on and on and on. Typical political hackery mixed with pseudo-science, basically just political spewing.

Nice empty rant- your standard method of pseudo-argument.

Address the points specifically, if you will. Otherwise, you merely demonstrate your own denial.

 

[Matt1970]

Weird how all the PhD Economists think you're wrong.

Is that the same economists polled on whether the Stimulus was even worth it by the University of Chicago's Graduate School of Business Initiative on Global Markets?

Then they were asked if the benefits of the stimulus would end up exceeding its costs, 46 percent agreed or strongly agreed and most of the rest said the result was uncertain

Or are they the ones that insisted we needed the $787 Billion to keep unemployment below 8% ?

 

[Jhhnn]

Or are they the ones that insisted we needed the $787 Billion to keep unemployment below 8% ?

Repeatedly debunked in thread after thread. Why do you insist on employing the same distortions over & over again as if they were fact?

If that's all you've got, you're not fooling anybody other than yourself, broadcasting your identity to others among the faithful cult of delusion & denial.

 

[Matt1970]

You know that's been debunked many times, but you still trot out the same tired lies. Have you no shame?

He is pretty much right on the mark. Here is Obama saying it is the assesment of the best economists in the country (go to 4:09) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r4THo2GWQg

 

[Matt1970]

Repeatedly debunked in thread after thread. Why do you insist on employing the same distortions over & over again as if they were fact?

If that's all you've got, you're not fooling anybody other than yourself, broadcasting your identity to others among the faithful cult of delusion & denial.

See my post above and here is the graph the Obama administration presented in Jan 2009 depicting Unemployment with and without the ARRA

 

[Jhhnn]

He is pretty much right on the mark. Here is Obama saying it is the assesment of the best economists in the country (go to 4:09) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r4THo2GWQg

Saying you're full of shit would be pretty much right on the mark.

In your linked video, Obama never claimed that the ARRA would hold unemployment to 8%. Period.

In the presentation to Congress, Obama's people offered that 8% was their best estimate at the time. They just didn't realize quite how badly that Bushonomics had screwed the pooch, that's all.

From that report-

“Forecasts of the unemployment rate without the recovery plan vary substantially,” the report said. “Some private forecasters anticipate unemployment rates as high as 11% in the absence of action.” As Smith noted in his video, the report spoke of “considerable uncertainty” in the estimates and the potential for “significant margins of error.”

At the time, other economists had similar forecasts — Romer and Bernstein were in the mid-range — but the economy turned out to be in deeper trouble than most people thought. Even with a massive stimulus bill, the unemployment rate soared above 9 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs.../17/gIQA9A8MKR_blog.html?wpisrc=nl_pmpolitics

Just because Mitt's lying too doesn't mean both of you won't get called on it.

 

[Bowfinger]

Interesting read Yllus. Thank you.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

It's obvious from the very first part of the article that's it's political hackery and drivel. This is the usual problem when you mix science (in this case economics) with politics. Political drivel and ideology gets justified with misguided or misapplied science as a backing.

This type of pseudo-scientific flim flam is more common in other areas (con men are experts at using it), but it's very much on display in this article. Cherry picking individual points, then using logical fallacies to apply them to policy, strawman arguments about the position from the evil republicans and on and on and on. Typical political hackery mixed with pseudo-science, basically just political spewing.

Well then surely a guy with Masters in something or other can do better than just complaining about cherry picked data.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well then surely a guy with Masters in something or other can do better than just complaining about cherry picked data.

He won't. In his own mind, he's arrived at sufficiency to enter denial, and that's that. It's how Righties resolve cognitive dissonance.

Rule #1- They believe their ideology is perfect, and purveyors of it can do no wrong.

Rule #2- If there's evidence to the contrary, no matter how persuasive or overwhelming, refer to Rule #1. Just Believe, and all doubt will vanish.

The more highly educated among them just have better ways to convince themselves. Seeing themselves as smarter, better educated & better paid just gives them more reason to believe.

 

[Matt1970]

Saying you're full of shit would be pretty much right on the mark.

In your linked video, Obama never claimed that the ARRA would hold unemployment to 8%. Period.

In the presentation to Congress, Obama's people offered that 8% was their best estimate at the time. They just didn't realize quite how badly that Bushonomics had screwed the pooch, that's all.

From that report-



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs.../17/gIQA9A8MKR_blog.html?wpisrc=nl_pmpolitics

Just because Mitt's lying too doesn't mean both of you won't get called on it.

I gave you a video with Obama saying that it was the assesment of the best economists in the country that if we do not enact the ARRA there would be castrophic results. I produced the graph presented by the Obama administration claiming the ARRA will keep unemployment below 8%. You claim I am a liar because instead of it coming from his mouth it came in a document. You are quoting something Obama released saying forcasts vary widely. Obama didn't seem to put too much value on that if he still presented his graph with 8% on it. Do you think he would have gotten the votes he did if he said he wasn't really sure what the stimulus was going to do? Hell no, go with the 8% graph, it looks better. Did he release graphs with the other predictions? If so I haven't seen um. You got proved 100% wrong. Deal with it.

 

[Matt1970]

Rule #1- They believe their ideology is perfect, and purveyors of it can do no wrong.

Rule #2- If there's evidence to the contrary, no matter how persuasive or overwhelming, refer to Rule #1. Just Believe, and all doubt will vanish.

You have mastered that pal.

 

[Jhhnn]

I gave you a video with Obama saying that it was the assesment of the best economists in the country that if we do not enact the ARRA there would be castrophic results. I produced the graph presented by the Obama administration claiming the ARRA will keep unemployment below 8%. You claim I am a liar because instead of it coming from his mouth it came in a document. You are quoting something Obama released saying forcasts vary widely. Obama didn't seem to put too much value on that if he still presented his graph with 8% on it. Do you think he would have gotten the votes he did if he said he wasn't really sure what the stimulus was going to do? Hell no, go with the 8% graph, it looks better. Did he release graphs with the other predictions? If so I haven't seen um. You got proved 100% wrong. Deal with it.

Obtusity. There was no claim, there was projection, as was clearly stated at the time. Honest disclaimers were released *with* the graph you posted. They basically said "Here's a graph of what our best thinking tells us it will look like with the ARRA. We think it will be a lot worse without the ARRA. Other sources think it may be higher or lower, but this is our best estimate."

They were over optimistically mistaken, and have admitted to such. Repubs merely nay-sayed the whole effort, and have made false claims about it ever since, your own little vendetta among them.

Votes? What votes? The whole thing took place *after* the election, making that argument desperate indeed.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Listen all y'all, it's a sabotage.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-gongloff/federal-debt-ceiling_b_1695876.html