How Obama Could Easily Win the Debates

Jan 7, 2012
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Romney: Tax cuts of 20% across the board will stimulate the economy. Reagan knew the benefits of tax cuts....(Insert conservative monologue).

Obama: Reagan also knew of compromise and raised taxes in 1982, ultimately taking back about half of his 1981 tax cut. This was the largest tax increase in four decades. Reagan chose tax increases rather than spending cuts, but apparently Governor Romney, while frequently boasting and romanticizing his policies and his legacy, refuses to consider the actual policies Reagan himself implemented. Those policies would make Reagan an extremist in the Republican party of today, based on the Ryan budget plan that Governor Romney has endorsed. Bush Sr. acknowledged tax cuts should be raised from the Reagan economy. He used the term "voodoo economics" to describe excessive supply-side, tax-cut for the rich based policies. The Clinton years provides ample evidence there is room to raise taxes on those benefiting the most from the economic recovery. Since there is little evidence that the higher incomes currently being received by individuals and corporations, the highest profit to GDP ratio in 50 years and the lowest tax to GDP ratio in 50 years, is creating jobs, the public sector DOES need to step up, and at least ensure employment levels are at least maintained, but preferably increased in roughly equal proportion to GDP growth, at least until the private sector shows at least a modest correlation between profits and job creation.

It is frequently said that any tax increase on the 1% is a tax increase on job creators. Only 3% of Americans reporting business income even report any income in excess of $250,000, yet Mr. Romney wants the American people to believe that raising the top tax brackets less than 5%, only on income exceeding $250,000 a year, will severely stifle job creation when businesses are making record profits, income disparity is at 40 year highs, and there is absolutely zero evidence that anything about that assertion is backed up by any evidence. If it is, Mr. Romney, now is your chance to present that evidence.

Would anyone like to continue the debate?
 
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her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
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Too many words. Americans don't like complexity and nuance. They want distilled sound bites, catchy phrases, and patriotic sloganeering.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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LOL, you are refering to TEFRA. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 was hardly a tax increase and more of a cut in future tax cuts and closed some loopholes.

"the public sector DOES need to step up, and at least ensure employment levels are at least maintained, but preferably increased in roughly equal proportion to GDP growth, at least until the private sector shows at least a modest correlation between profits and job creation."

Yep, lets all work for the Government.
 
Jan 7, 2012
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-16/why-reagan-raised-taxes-and-we-should-too-echoes.html

There is your liberal source for the "nearly-half of the tax cut" part of my post

LOL right back at ya.

Oh, and basing government job growth loosely, or even strictly based on various formulas including private sector profit-taxes: job growth and GDP Growth: Government funding for jobs/help for states to avoid cuts is so easily interpreted as "lets all work for the government".

Taken any debating classes lately?
 
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Jan 7, 2012
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After reading this, I pulled out my Oxford dictionary to see if it had been updated with a picture of Romney...but anyway I digress...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism

Euphemisms can obscure a variety of sins. And Reagan's euphemist, Larry Kudlow -- then an official in the Office of Management and Budget -- was unrepentant. "There's no better way to sell economic theory than by the euphemistic route," he told the New York Times.

Over the remainder of his presidency, Reagan would go on to sign a series of such increases, ultimately taking back about half of his 1981 tax cut, according to economist and historian Bruce Bartlett.
 
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Oct 16, 1999
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Your expectations of the average American voter are way too high if you think Obama wins that scenario. Complex arguments don't work on simple people, but simple arguments do, often regardless of factuality. If you're explaining, you're losing.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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How Obama Could Easily Win the Debates

So basically you learned nothing from the example of Walter Mondale? He likewise defended the idea of increased (or at least not reducing) taxes in the debates and lost HUGE. If you want to have Obama take the same approach and lose 49 states then have at, but thinking that's how you "easily win" the debates is completely idiotic.
 

superccs

Senior member
Dec 29, 2004
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Obama: we have increased emissions standards to bring more fuel efficient cars too market, increased regulation of oil companies, and reduced our consumption of fossil fuels. This will decrease our impact on global warning.

Romney:I like turtles.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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There are a few changes in taxes that would make a difference, but reducing the top marginal rate for income taxes to 28% is not one of them.

Here are the needed changes:

A reduction of the corporate tax rate to not more than 15%.
Repeal all of Obamacare.
remove capital gains taxes on gold and silver.
remove all import quotas and reduce all existing tariffs to 5-10%.
repeal all taxes on firearms and replace them with nothing.
repeal the AMT or at least raise it to $750K (head of household) and index it to CPI.
 
Jan 7, 2012
107
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There are a few changes in taxes that would make a difference, but reducing the top marginal rate for income taxes to 28% is not one of them.

Here are the needed changes:

A reduction of the corporate tax rate to not more than 15%.
Repeal all of Obamacare.
remove capital gains taxes on gold and silver.
remove all import quotas and reduce all existing tariffs to 5-10%.
repeal all taxes on firearms and replace them with nothing.
repeal the AMT or at least raise it to $750K (head of household) and index it to CPI.

Justify your positions, if you don't mind :\

Perhaps even more importantly, what do you plan to accomplish with each change? What are your revenue targets on corporate tax and are there any winners and losers or is it flat with no exceptions?

What will you replace the ACA with? (so tired of Obamacare, all about strategic wording and phrasing the BS from Frank Luntz...)
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Obama's response should be much simpler.

Supply side economics does not make sense when the problem is a lack of demand.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
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There are a few changes in taxes that would make a difference, but reducing the top marginal rate for income taxes to 28% is not one of them.

Here are the needed changes:

A reduction of the corporate tax rate to not more than 15%.
Repeal all of Obamacare.
remove capital gains taxes on gold and silver.
remove all import quotas and reduce all existing tariffs to 5-10%.
repeal all taxes on firearms and replace them with nothing.
repeal the AMT or at least raise it to $750K (head of household) and index it to CPI.

1.) Removing capital gains taxes on gold and silver will encourage hoarding of gold and silver. This will not stimulate the economy.

2.) Reducing tariffs will encourage the importation of foreign goods which will not help the economy.

3.) AMT - Fixing the AMT is a good idea.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
Justify your positions, if you don't mind
The government shouldn't have any rights. The tariffs and quotas on sugar have increased the price of sugar by like 20x and have failed to create jobs for America. The corporate tax rate needs to be less than Romney and Obama want it to be for America to be competitive in the world. The CG taxes on gold and silver should be removed because the taxes on them weaken the dollar.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
lol /facepalm

Obama should win most debates. He is much better at it then anything else. Romney seems to be always putting his foot in his mouth.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
9,002
115
106
He could "win" the debates in a room full of intelligent people, but lets face it, he would get destroyed by sound bites and flat-out propaganda/misinformation based on those statements. If he wants to win, he must reduce those statements to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Such is the state of "debating" in this country.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Your expectations of the average American voter are way too high if you think Obama wins that scenario. Complex arguments don't work on simple people, but simple arguments do, often regardless of factuality. If you're explaining, you're losing.

I once tried explaining how a Laffer curve works. Holy shit. Impossible. People are retarded.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
I once tried explaining how a Laffer curve works. Holy shit. Impossible. People are retarded.



A Laughter Curve? Is that like in a Sitcom how loud people laugh when someone makes a joke based on how funny it was? :sneaky:
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
Obama's response should be much simpler.

Supply side economics does not make sense when the problem is a lack of demand.

Wow I agree,

Lack of demand is the problem across the board. Simply put our economy relies too heavily on consumption vs production. America was great when we made stuff the world wanted, it provided more distributed wealth.

We outsourced production and shifted towards consumption, housing bubble and credit bubbles were the false fuel used to propel.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
A Laughter Curve? Is that like in a Sitcom how loud people laugh when someone makes a joke based on how funny it was? :sneaky:

I mean the way guys like Dave think that taxing money at 100% will increase tax revenues. I also have a few relatives who think taxing close to 0 will increase revenues. Maybe they're advocating slavery and I'm just not picking up on it. No money for health care? Slavery. We'll lock nurses in the hospital and shoot them if they try to leave.