how much time it takes to contruct a processor?

Pelu

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2008
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Is there anyone here that have hear, or read, or even work in manufacture of processors... How much time it takes to construct a processor from nothing.. just blueprints and melt raw materials, starting the day in the factory, until the processor is finally constructed.

Not including their design time, I guess they are months, and also excluding the boxing time and delivery.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Pelu
Is there anyone here that have hear, or read, or even work in manufacture of processors... How much time it takes to construct a processor from nothing.. just blueprints and melt raw materials, starting the day in the factory, until the processor is finally constructed.

Not including their design time, I guess they are months, and also excluding the boxing time and delivery.

I did for many years. Depends on a number of parameters of course, but generally you boil it down to (1) how many mask sets are needed to fabricate the IC, and (2) what is the fab's linespeed in days per mask.

A typical 11ML (11 metal levels) 65nm state of the art CPU will have upwards of 40 mask sets. A typical fab linespeed is in the neighborhood of 1.5-3 days per mask set.

So you are looking at about 80-100 days on average for your more complex CPU's to a little as 30 days for so-called "hot lots" or for your less complex (6-7 metal level) 130nm chips.

Memory typically have far far fewer mask sets, and consequently run thru the fab faster, 2-3 weeks.

This does not include packaging and test, which can add another 2-3 weeks depending on the complexity of the IC.
 

Pelu

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Mar 3, 2008
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So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????
 

RavenGuard

Member
Jul 22, 2007
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Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

Yes. A processor is like your motherboard, it's just layered circuits and semiconductors that all interconnect to form specific functions, just on a really really really tiny scale. Even motherboards have layered circuitry but generally a processor blows a motherboard out of the water in complexity.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

I strongly recommend watching the following on-line video. It helps explain a lot of things to folks who don't work in the industry.

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/HTMAC/animated.html

Edit: here is a cartoon version in print if you prefer to read rather than listen - http://www.semiconductor.net/info/CA6432169.html
 

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
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Damn it's been a while since solid state electronics...

Whats the ratio between the size of the mask and the size of the chip?

How long does the stepper expose a single layer on a single chip ( probably depends on the photoresist / wavelength? )?

Anybody ever try making a single mask for a 300mm wafer - instead of stepping through, just expose once?

 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Originally posted by: PottedMeat
Damn it's been a while since solid state electronics...

Whats the ratio between the size of the mask and the size of the chip?

How long does the stepper expose a single layer on a single chip ( probably depends on the photoresist / wavelength? )?

Anybody ever try making a single mask for a 300mm wafer - instead of stepping through, just expose once?

Field size on a modern 193nm litho tool are typically 26mm x 33mm.

http://www.asml.com/asml/show.do?ctx=13559&rid=10668

A full-field the size of a 300mm wafer would be ridiculously, absurdly, expensive and bulky in size. (edit: and field size is not limited just for tool cost reasons, the mask set is ridiculous to build near-flawlessly even for current shot fields, let alone a full wafer mask, maybe truly impossible).

Typical throughput numbers (wph, for wafers per hour) are north of 100 wph...or 30-45 seconds per wafer pass.
 

Old Hippie

Diamond Member
Oct 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

I strongly recommend watching the following on-line video. It helps explain a lot of things to folks who don't work in the industry.

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/HTMAC/animated.html

Edit: here is a cartoon version in print if you prefer to read rather than listen - http://www.semiconductor.net/info/CA6432169.html

Slick! Thanks for the link!

 

imported_wired247

Golden Member
Jan 18, 2008
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Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????


Sort of: the END PRODUCT of a processor you put in your computer is assembled with a bunch of pieces. However, the main piece, or the core is assembled by the following:

Taking a totally blank slate, which is a thin round wafer of pure silicon about 12" in diameter (unless they have moved up to 16")

Using chemical vapor deposition to deposit an ultra high purity layer of pure silicon that is doped (usually p-type meaning it has a lack of electrons, this enhances conductivity) on top of that. Doping is a process that just means introducing some other elements into silicon (example, about 1 atom of boron for every 1 million atoms of silicon would give you a p-type semiconductor)

Then they start the fabrication process:

depositing a polymer called photoresist onto the wafer, then using a lithography mask to burn an image into the photoresist, then removing the photoresist that was not affected by the lithography mask... This gives you a circuit pattern on the wafer that is carved out by the photoresist. Now, if you deposit some metal on the entire wafer: the areas that are covered by the photoresist will not have any metal on them, which means that you are left with a metal circuit pattern that covers the entire wafer.

they also grow layers of SiO2 (glass) which naturally grows out of the silicon if you expose it to oxygen at certain conditions,

they can also deposit patterns of metals, or other materials onto the wafer. In the case of intel's 45nm CPU's, they deposit hafnium oxide as the transistor gate oxide, which was one of the key features that made the 45nm process feasible.

basically building a processor is a complicated process of creating LAYERS of different materials on a very pure silicon wafer. In the end, you have some complicated circuits and millions of transistors.

Finally they need to provide connects to all the transistors. This is done by a crazy process of layering many many layers of conductive metal wires and oxides. Since there are millions of processors, there are a lot of layers of wires required.

Once the core is done, they have to provide wires to the processor, by using other processes to deposit gold wires that ultimately make contact with the pins you see on the bottom of your CPU.


All of this has to be done in an extremely clean environment. for example... dust is typically made of micro-meter sized particles (1000 nm) if a single piece of dust gets on a wafer, that wafer will have a really large fucked up area on it due to that one piece of dust, since you are building multiple layers on top of that piece of dust. It's kinda like the princess and the pea story.

Other things that aren't allowed in clean room environments: pencils. If you use a pencil, you will create graphite dust and graphite is conductive. If a piece of graphite falls on your CPU during fabrication, it is doomed.

It's a crazy process. Intel and AMD are simply amazing companies.

If you want to know more... electrical or chemical engineering classes often have semiconductor manufacturing options. I myself am a chemical engineer with a minor in semiconductor mfg.


Edit: just watched that video... not bad!
 

Pelu

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2008
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Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

I strongly recommend watching the following on-line video. It helps explain a lot of things to folks who don't work in the industry.

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/HTMAC/animated.html

Edit: here is a cartoon version in print if you prefer to read rather than listen - http://www.semiconductor.net/info/CA6432169.html

all of this process is the one that you say it takes from 80 to 100 days?
 

Pelu

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2008
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this sort of engineering is so cool... too bad mathematics produce me Chest Angina and makes me histerical... :( I dont even get through Precalculus... so I end up changing to management in college.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
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Originally posted by: Pelu
this sort of engineering is so cool... too bad mathematics produce me Chest Angina and makes me histerical... :( I dont even get through Precalculus... so I end up changing to management in college.

It's a good thing you obviously passed English with flying colors! Poor spelling skills cause me to break into histerics :)
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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91
Originally posted by: Pelu
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

I strongly recommend watching the following on-line video. It helps explain a lot of things to folks who don't work in the industry.

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/HTMAC/animated.html

Edit: here is a cartoon version in print if you prefer to read rather than listen - http://www.semiconductor.net/info/CA6432169.html

all of this process is the one that you say it takes from 80 to 100 days?

Ha ha, no sadly not, for the start-to-finish covered by the video that is likely to span 6 months if not longer.

80-100 days is the time the wafer spends inside a fab, it gets to the fab already sliced/polished and leaves the fab ready for tests, dicing, and packaging.

The work it takes to get a wafer ready to start its life in the fab, plus the work it takes to process the wafer into individual product when it leaves the fab, is probably another 60 days worth.

Don't forget global transportation too.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
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Very interesting thread. I've always sorta understood how a CPU is made but I never realized that the process was so time consuming and detailed now that I've actually done some reading on it. Makes you have to marvel at the achivement even a simple processor is.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

I strongly recommend watching the following on-line video. It helps explain a lot of things to folks who don't work in the industry.

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/HTMAC/animated.html

Edit: here is a cartoon version in print if you prefer to read rather than listen - http://www.semiconductor.net/info/CA6432169.html

cool vid
 

Germonicus

Member
Dec 21, 2005
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Makes you wonder how they can produce chips so cheaply,under £200 for an E8400 @45nm seems like an even better deal than I thought :)
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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91
Originally posted by: Germonicus
Makes you wonder how they can produce chips so cheaply,under £200 for an E8400 @45nm seems like an even better deal than I thought :)

It is kind of amazing that you can buy today's performance at such low prices considering that such performance wasn't available at any price just 3-4 years ago.

This is true for CPUs, GPUs, ram, harddrives, cellphones. This industry leaves all other industries in the dust excepting for the medical industry. You can get surgeries today that weren't available at any cost 5 years ago.
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
4,683
1
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Originally posted by: nerp
Very interesting thread. I've always sorta understood how a CPU is made but I never realized that the process was so time consuming and detailed now that I've actually done some reading on it. Makes you have to marvel at the achivement even a simple processor is.

Ditto. I had no idea it took that long.

Thanks for the interesting information!
 

Nathelion

Senior member
Jan 30, 2006
697
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Originally posted by: Arkaign
Originally posted by: Pelu
this sort of engineering is so cool... too bad mathematics produce me Chest Angina and makes me histerical... :( I dont even get through Precalculus... so I end up changing to management in college.

It's a good thing you obviously passed English with flying colors! Poor spelling skills cause me to break into histerics :)

Hey now - there are about 6 billion people out there whose native language is NOT english.
 

DSF

Diamond Member
Oct 6, 2007
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0
71
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

I strongly recommend watching the following on-line video. It helps explain a lot of things to folks who don't work in the industry.

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/HTMAC/animated.html

Edit: here is a cartoon version in print if you prefer to read rather than listen - http://www.semiconductor.net/info/CA6432169.html

Awesome video, thanks for posting that!
 

Drsignguy

Platinum Member
Mar 24, 2002
2,264
0
76
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: Pelu
So a processor is constructed by pieces and then you put them all together... like doing layer over layer only that the layer takes some time to complete the manufacture and the more layers you have on it.. the more time...??????

I strongly recommend watching the following on-line video. It helps explain a lot of things to folks who don't work in the industry.

http://www.appliedmaterials.com/HTMAC/animated.html

Edit: here is a cartoon version in print if you prefer to read rather than listen - http://www.semiconductor.net/info/CA6432169.html

A very, very interesting thread here. Always wondered how the IC was manufactured. Now I can truly appriciate the compexity and dedication in the fabrication. Keep her cool!